Faceless

Could it be the seeking security in that pleasure was not captured? Could it be a feeling of helplessness? Which is the other side of the coin, sorrow. To seek pleasure is to seek pain, conflict, sorrow, suffering. One and the same movement. to seek security in thought (memory, experience) is to invite all that conflict/suffering.

Example... I have had some experience of a drug which gave ‘me’ great satisfaction. After that experience ends I want it again because the memory of that experience of gratification has arisen. So I then seek the remeberance of that experience. This is how pleasure is born. Notice the ‘me’ The experience The satisfaction The memory The gratification And pleasure All imply the self/ MOVEMENT OF THOUGHT (the accumulation of memory responding as thought seeking security through its own movement) dog chasing tail which leads one in a ⭕️

Memory,experience, which responds as thought right?

What is the root driving force that gives continuity to pleasure??

That is you. The pleasure. The you that wants to do something with it is a contradiction. Anything “you do with it”, is a further movement away from conflict to pleasure, which intensifies conflict. Just watch the pleasure and learn from it. You can’t do anything about it. There is only one movement, PLEASURE. If there is an awarness of this pleasure you will see the danger in it, and stay away. If you don’t see ‘as a fact’ the danger you will get caught in it.

@B_Naz what I would do is start investigating how thought/the thinker opperates. That way you would see all this in yourself as it was arising. You wouldn’t have to ask anybody. If you understand all of (that/the you), you will be able to identify all dualistic movement. You would also be able to understand what to do when you are face with ‘how to handle pleasure, desire, and so on, without moving positively/dualistically. @robdl is another who is really cutting deep into this.

@B_Naz do you see pleasure as desire pursuing any particular object?

Studying abstractions and not observing the actuality in ones self is second hand learning. Please mr or mrs @Etagnwo lets not go mess up @B_Naz thread.

Hehe One must cease to conform to abstract ideas, theory’s, philosophy’s, and learn about the actuality of oneself. Second hand knowledge is futile. To get caught up in merely understanding nondual abstractions implies duality itself. One must see much deeper than that.

@B_Naz Can you identify when pleasure, desire, (psychological time) is being pursued? Can you observe when all the subtle forms of fear are in movement. Even the deep rooted disguised movement?? start with being able to see all that. Even watch for the motive in which you are attempting to do all of this. This is a great way to learn. To observe all of that implies one is moving dualistically.

Not understanding oneself leads to being, and remaining stuck. All this goes much deeper than conforming to a path.

Dead in the water from the beginning.

It would depend on whether there was intention, in which one was going to “Let what comes come and let what goes go” right?

Is this a movement of psychological becoming???

From the beginning do you see the duality? The implication of psychological time. The self/thought is the above. Emotion, thoughts, pleasure. One unitary movement. The moment you move dualistically as above, it becomes an escape psychologically seeking pleasure to find security. May it be the movement form the beginning is dualistic? Pleasure is a movement to re-experience an experience. A movement of thought...A movement towards psychological time. The entity depending on thought to bring about psychological security. But that thought creates that insecurity in the first place. This ‘being and peace’ doesn’t seek at all. There is no movement to become secure. When the entity/self ceases to seek through knowledge, experience, memory, (THOUGHT), that implies that the division/duality ceases to move as well.

What authority is there in this raw observation? Who is merging?

What is even more interesting is you don’t even investigate it. Start by exploring yourself and how thought/ego works. I don’t recommend one skips that. I’m not trying to confuse you or others. I just share the importance of learning about the conditioned consciousness.

I Don’t understand how you don’t know this already. You give advice to a lot of people yet don’t know this very important fact. Its quite interesting to observe your responses indeed

Watch them beliefs. As long as belief is in movement such fabricated experiences are bound to manifest. Along with a conglomerate of other illusions and forms of self deception. Belief is a disorder. It implies an illusion (the entity) seeking security in an illusion (belief) A mind that operates in order does not hold any beliefs, seek pleasure, escape fear, and so on. It does move in any such direction. It does not pursue or escape the illusory movement of time. Nor does it move positvely as a psychological entity.

Sure. It’s very important that one understands the nature of experience. If experience is projected from the movement/content of thought, then that would not be an immeasurable experiencing. This would be a creation/fabrication of ones own imagination through the movement of ones knowledge/memory. Experience implies recognition of something of the past.

Indeed. You are sharp my friend? World is lucky to have a presence such as yours

Is that all it goes into? I can see how the complex nature of thought could bring about problems In that. I would have to explore that deeper though. I can see how there could be self deception there.

Fear of death goes much deeper then fear of pain. The fear comes in thinking about the knower with all it is accumulated attatchments coming to an end. But to encounter such a situation as you described, it’s an intelligent movement of the thinker to be afraid. Doesn’t mean we can’t respond to that situation. I would. Thought/ego ‘technique’ is what these moments are for. Thats what the thought the thinker is for. To navigate the environmental challenges. If a truck is heading towards me I move out of the way. Intelligent action. I don’t wait there and ask should I move. We are talking about the fear that thought creates psychologically.

What does that form of inquiry go into? What does it explore?

It very well can be yes. That’s why we must start with the one who judges. The entity that can make errors, the self/the thinker with its psychological attatchment to maintain permanence/security. This is often missed altogether. It’s about learning without accumulation. A capacity to observe without clinging to ones own psychological accumulation from the past that gets extended onto the present, and projected forward into the future.