Faceless

Some questions we can ask oursleves.. Are we always compulsively conforming to an idea-abstraction? If we do this, are we then adhering to the imitiative structure of thought mechanically? If we are accumulating ideas-images from past knowledge, and conforming to those images, aren’t we then inevitably living in the past? If all knowledge, experience, which is accumulated through memory is old, and never new, which it is, and we imitiate-conform to that knowledge in order to live now, are we living now? If we act in accordance to that which is old, (the past), then isn’t all action of the past? So could we say we are then living in the past? Or could we much more subtly say that the self IS THE PAST? If there is this adherence to the structure of thought( experience, knowledge, memory), and we meet every new dynamic moment with that dead content of thought, then all movement of the now remains to be an abiding to every-thing but truth. Could we say that as long as there is this dependence to bring about psychological security in thought, then we are always moving away from “WHAT IS” (TRUTH), to what should be, (abstraction)?? And If so, isn’t this ‘the root’ of this disharmony with the beauty of the now? If we depend psychologically on that which has been constructed from the past, thought, which implies fear, resistance, and evasion of what is, can there be an abiding in this eternal dynamic nature of “the now”?? Can we say that all attempts to approach (the now), which is dynamic, with that which is static, thought-self (experience, knowledge, memory) is to avoid this infinite “quality” of Truth altogether?? To me personally, truth is not somthing we conform to, but a movement of is-ness, which is empty psychologically of the past( experience, knowledge, memory as the i )...In this there is no “knowing and living according to that knowing, or not living “in truth”, but we are truth itself, in action, which is (alive, dynamic, whole, and infinite is it’s immensity. Or unbroken, not fragmented or mechanical. To live as truth itself is one and the same movement of joy, beauty, and creativity, which in that very essence implies Freedom. Freedom unbound by the conditioned structure-nature of fear-thought-self, that perpetualy evades the complexity of the living now.

@Natasha I figured you were implying something similar. A lot of times people will read what you posted and think that is an immoral statement. Maybe this is because fear itself is doing the reading. Hehe

??Hello @Stoica Doru In a more subtle way “cooperation” or “compliance” to a particular ideal, movement, and so on, nourishes segregation, tribalism, and inevitably brings about antagonism-violence. Identification with any ideal such as “god is expanding an all loving” is to create the image (god) and conform to that ideal, in which becomes a means to influence a sense of cooperation. To create an image and pursue that image. Also a subtle form of self worship, or a movement of fear-ego.... To me, cooperation psychologically implies not a healthy loving relationship, but instead to put up with one another as long as we get somthing out of it. In this is a form of cooperation, which is then based on conditions, therefore not love at all. In that if we don’t get what we want (psychological security), the day of the dog begins. ? We can observe this in our daily lives. We live by the idea to love our neibor, but really we are merely to a certain degree, “tolerating one another” as long as our individual needs are met. As long as there is this division, which is influenced by such ideologies as “god”, which implies fear and identification), cooperation-toleration will continue to divide the masses. Love has nothing to do with cooperation. Love comes about when the need to identify with an ideal, belief, (the movement of fear-thought) ends. As long as fear influences action, (to conform to an idea) immorality remains the fact. The only way the beauty of love can flower, is when all compulsions to “identity with” any content invented by thought ceases. When we can be rid of this subtle attachment to identify with some-“thing”, we can then stay empty-nothing. Only when one is psychologically empty-nothing, is there love. In this there is no limited movement to cooperate-comply-tolerate. To tolerate implies an ego, (fear) subtlety negotiating with one another. Why can’t we stay empty-nothing?? That is the question.

Sure, Any conformity to a (conditioned ideal) like “morality”, is a form of imitation. We conform to ideas to evade the fact in ourselves, which is immorality. Morality which is conditioned is to seek security in that which thought has put together to bring about an escape from what is. When we seek psychological security in thought, we perpetuate the idea or morality and nourish immoral action. To conform to an idea of morality is immoral. True moral action is whole and not influenced by fear-thought-self.

Hello friend Integration of ego seems quite contradictory. Can the Ego ever be ’made’ whole. Could we say “moral” action is born in the absence of fear. Can fear be cultivated into love?

Ok ..thank you

When I post onthe forum what I write is something that can be seen in every one of us. What I share isn’t something that you yourself cannot see directly in yourself. I simply am able to observe all this phenomenon of thought-self and I only mirror it here on the forum. What I share is already there in yourself. I do ask questions all the time. When I post random responses on threads I may say things a certain way to spark interest(a subtle form of click bate), but ultimately I always tell people who ask me directly for help that they ultimately are responsible to go about it on there own. Like with robdl for example, we both help one anohter quite a bit. In fact I have never been one to learn in a teacher student exchange. I learn better by going into things together as two or more people looking to solve the same problem. Robdl actually to me is very wise and humble. This is the kind of person that really offers great insight to solve daily problems of the mind. Mostly what I write is sharing about the importance of understanding thought-self. Any significant learning in this area (psychological) is always done by ones own direct observation. I never learned anything extensive from anyone else, and they will be mistaken if they think I can offer “the goods”...especially when it comes to capturing that which is sacred. But everyone has something to share. The best way to think of it is we are all students of life. Thanks for the heads up Joseph. I will make sure to make it quite clear that I am only a partner in this whole journey of life. P.s. I know you are interested in being a teacher, and am sorry for implying that would be destructive. As long as we are honest with ourselves and others here will be no problem. ??

I think you misunderstand what I am doing. I am not a teacher, i am not a follower, and share the significance of not following in general. Authority is the reason the world is at is. I share the significance in not depending on anyone to handle psychological problems. For me freedom came when I saw the futility in moving in accordance to fear. This takes absolutely no teaching whatsoever. Anyone can do this on there own. Again this is what I am passionate about. I like to share with robdl & charlotte becusee they are interested as am I. I don’t really know much about any mainstream authority figures, and respectively, when it comes to psychological matters they are irrelevant. Psychologically authority is inefficient and actually quite destrcutive. I’m interested in showing people that they can figure out there psychological problems without any authority. I did it myself, and I feel other can as well. And Im quite content with discussing things with robdl and Charlotte. In fact it’s a joy to do so. Along with anyone else on the forum and in my daily life, who is actually interested in this.

If not much into debating man. I just like to communicate with people. To me debate is usually two points of view arguing with one another without the intention of communing. I’m not really concerned with that. I just like talk about this stuff because it’s important to me, and I see that you have a similar interest. But i would never get involved in debate. I like to communicate with real everyday people, with every day problems. Problems of thought-self(the conditioned consciousness. Anyway you are a sharp dude, I’m always willing to listen to what you have to say.

We will have to go slow into all of this with the intention of actually “sharing” i would like to start with the beginning and makes sure commune before we go on. If that is agreeable. This part needs to be ironed out. How can the original program, which is fragmented as the i who clings to its own movement-content, which implies fear, bring about integration? Can we integrate that which is fragmented by its very nature, the program “the i”? Could we say that as long as this fragmentation remains that there will be contradiction as a result of that? Can there be integration when there is mechanical contradictory patterns still at work as the i who clings to its own movement in order to self sustain? Integration(wholeness) implies no contradiction. What do you think buddy? I will be off and on tonight.

I will get back on in a while. Got to make some dinner

Ok ?

@Etagnwo I understand what you were implying, and I agree with a lot of it. I also agree with the spiritual bypassing phenomenon that you suggested. This thread is about ego, so I just wanted to point out the programmer is the programmed fact. You know, It doesn’t have to be a battle between us man. We are related whether you like it or not. ??‍♂️

I’m not attacking man. I am understanding what you are saying.

Sure, I’m helping myself as I see the truth in the fact that I am not an individual, but am humanity itself. This division is only manifestation of the divisive structure of thought. So yes selfishness in that sense ? Never been much into looking for approval though. I actually take a natural interest into all this. Understanding the thought-self is interesting

Ah but, you are the program, so who is doing the deprograming?? This is how the subtle notion of “the you” being seperate from the program (division), plays a key role in the controller and the controlled falsity. Do you see?? The self (experience, knowledge, memory) “Acting on” that same movement of experience, knowledge, memory, has put together as the self. It’s so much more simple than accumulating all this knowledge, experience, and so on. This is all a problem of misunderstanding the whole of this movement as the self-thought. A lot of people don’t see that all positve and negotive action of the self only nourishes this contradiction, confusion, conflict. This is self perpetuation at it’s best. Crazy how tricky it is huh.

When does this “division” between the thinker and the thought enter in? Can anyone pin it down? It’s quite interesting indeed .

Quite strange when I here, you can never kill “your” ego. We so subtly separate the experiencer from the experience, and are not aware of this fact. This inattention is how this division is nourished. A lot of prople say they know the ego is an illusion, yet the action they take says otherwise. Seems they know it verbally-intellectually, but do not see the truth in that fact. They do not see it holistically. It’s only when we really truly see it, that all indivisible action comes into being. In this we do not know truth then act. In this observation of that truth is action in and of itself. Many go beyond that in which they have not yet began by not actually ending that false sense of duality as the experiencer and that which is experienced. Which is why many either say befriend the ego or kill it. Either way both influenced by this false notion of division. Tricky tricky indeed. It’s interesting isn’t it.?

Any form of identification implies fear. Thought seeking security in its own movement of division as an independent entity separate from fear. ?

Sure.. This is a great thread, maybe we can keep it alive. There always more to talk about.

i see myself as a normal dude. No more or less significant than any other. To speak of these “big boys” as if they were advanced and what not is a joke. I am only verbally pointing at somthing which has an tremendous significance. If I can end this psychological seeking without conforming to all the propaganda that is out in the mainstream, you better believe I will share that with who ever is interested. I haven’t been doing this too long now. For me freedom was not premeditated-cultivated. I have only been learning how to better communicate all of this with that last 7 months. I am fairly new to all this, yet I feel my communication-technique does need to be cultivated. Maybe some day I will share on a larger scale, maybe not. You see if we understand oursleves very deeply we already contribute to the whole. You and I are no different than society. The “individual” is a reflection of the society, and the society is an expression of the individual. It all starts with us my man. Only an ego thins it can change the world by trying to change others. Lol I am sharing with others, because I see the truth in the fact that I and other, are really one consciousness that likes to separate as divide itself as distinct-separate entities. Again I do what I do. When it comes down to it, as long as we live healthy-sane lifes, we contribute to the whole of man-kind/world. Anyways thanks for your response my friend??

Incompatibility is the result of contradiction. As long as fear influences action, one will live a conflicting and incompatible life. This has nothing to do with Easy-West. This has to to do with the human consciousnes. Which is basically, fundamentally the same. I have met people in the east, they are burdened by the same conflict as people here is the west. Same old contradiction. Hehe Ditch the idea of eastern-western wisdom-philosophy and all that jive. Ditch all that nonsense...What it comes down to is seeing the fact in yourself. Keep it simple, because to over complicate an already complex mind is unintelligent indeed. You can puruse (live an actualized life) if you want. Only do you want to live such a life that is fueled by fear of not “arriving” hehe We do not have to feed the ego, to live a healthy life. ? unless you think you do ??‍♂️

When you have seen this all holistically it you it will unfold on its own. “You” won’t take be taking anything further. Truth will act on it’s own. Don’t worry. Try not to get caught up in stages, progression, and all that thought fuel. All that perpetuates measure, thought-egos favorite. Have you talked to @robdl anymore since the last time? I feel he can also point you in a direction that will be of value. We may also be able help you connect the dots as to see a more holistic understanding of the self-thought. We may be able to show you the significance-importance in passive awareness as well perhaps. But ultimately you observing the fact that is going on in yourself is of most value. Without controlling-influencing of course. Anyway it’s impostant to not be doing all of this merely to solve “your” problems. Think of this as understanding questions to “human” problems born of thought-self. After all we all basically are the same when it comes to the conditioned consciousness. It’s much healthier and efficient when we don’t taint the investigation by seeking a means to an end. Any way that’s the way I go about it. I do see simultaneously that it is a necessity to do all this, but at the same time that I must aware if I am doing all this to escape what is, which the cause of all this psychological disorder in the first place. You know fear evading fear which nourishes fear? Anyway maybe you, i, and @robdl can go start a dialog-conversation of sorts. We can walk together in this. After all, we are all beginners of life.

Love does not come about through cultivation by any means. It cannot be premeditated by will-desire-volition. It is not somthing you get. It is when the you with all your reaching, striving for, grasping after, and other movement of the self end. In order for there to be love there there must be death to all the psychological accumulation of experience, knowledge, memory as the i. Which means one must from moment to moment, die to everything in which experience, knowledge, memory, (thought), as the i has put together. Personally for “me”, death is every day, minute, second. We are constantly gathering up experience, knowledge, memory, about as the i. We can take psychedelics, practice various forms of meditation, but that is only temporary. I am talking about dying every moment. Dying to experience as the i. This demands much more than a series of trips. Experience as the i must end, and by no means can an experience touch on that which is Love. This doesn’t take years of cultivation in some sort of routine. It doesn’t depend on psychedelics, or anything for that matter. It takes a HOLISTIC SEEING. The duality between the experiencer and the experience must be seeing “ACTUALLY”...If it is not seen actually then this seeing will fade away and one has not really seen at all. This seeing if whole, is a one time deal. The seeing the truth in the fact that the experiencer is one and the same movement as the experience, is action that implies FREEDOM. In this holistic seeing one sees the futility in seeking security in the illusory nature of psychological time. When all movement of division-duality as the i who seeks psychologically ceases, then there is FREEDOM. FREEDOM unbound by the center(self) that is perpetualy seeking pleasure to escape fear. Freedom without the burden of the i who seeks to re-experience past experiences. Freedom without the invention of images to nourish-perpetuate its own movement as the i, and by any means necessary building walls around itself in which it defends those images. In this there can be nothing but further frustration, anxiety, fear, in which only strengthens fear and prevents freedom, which is Love. Compassion, Joy, Beauty, Truth, and that which is truly Creative, all one and the same movement of FREDDOM. Only in FREEDOM is there love. Then in that freedom, perhaps there is that which is sacred that comes into being. The beauty of observation unbound by any form of experience, knowledge, memory. In this is the mysterious realm that is unbound by measure, time, things. This doesn’t have to take years unless you want it to. It takes a HOLISTIC SEEING; understanding which is not verbal-intellectual...It takes (insight into the whole of it all). Thought likes to see in parts, this is why it takes us so long if ever, to end that which time has constructed as the self. This can take you your whole life, or it can become an actuality now. Time plays absolutely no part in this. @Victor Mgazi Be carful trying to understand love when time (psychological becoming) still remains a fact in oneself. Also love cannot be pinned down by any partial, finite, and incomplete movement of thought-self. I wouldn’t get caught up in this Love is consciousness type of talk either. Until you (time) ceases to seek, all attempts to capture the essence of love will be futile. Perhaps it will just happen as it did me. Not premeditated-uninvited. When we see the futility in seeking security in the time we cease to move so unintelligently. When all psychological seeking ends, Love is. Also in this opens the door to the mysterious(what I call headlessness) the ultimate Freedom. Again, start with fear-thought-self. Learn about it, understand it, maintain a passive awareness to that understanding-seeing. In this all movement of the i with its will-volition-psychological seeking dies at its root. And in this there is the beauty of life. I noticed you were starting to understand-commune with @robdl, he is very wise about all of this. Maybe continue to talk with him as well. Anyway i hope anything I said has been of any value my friend. ??

Self deception, justification, the invention of a self image all a movement of fear seeking to bring about a psychological sense of security or (escape fear) We create an image to validate a sense of self worth, self affirmation, and so on. We seek seeking in the image (pleasure) and we don’t see we are inevitably inviting pain as a consequence of that. All boils down to seeking security in thought. Any movement seeking security in thought (pleasure) is inviting psychological insecurity. The self perpetuates self deception by seeking psychological security in the very mechanism that causes psychological insecurity.