Faceless

Thank you Is that so... Or in nothing is the absence of that question-realization,(identification), there at all?

Also, the extent in which one is not bound by thought, is the degree in which actual creativity can be expressed. Otherwise all action of what we think of as “creative”, is really just another form of invention, (modification of the past)...You will understand this when the nature of thought, (being old) is understood. Its pretty important to understand if one wants to be truly original.

By the way, did you catch this Do you see that boredom is only a manifestation of thought? Just wanted to point that out ?

? thinking has its place, but compulsive thinking has none. To be able to think for practical affairs is a necessity. For me thinking happens as a function in practical affairs. When it’s not needed thought lies dormant.

Hello friends, How can mind realize nothingness, if all movement of mind implies things? This implies that the mind can cultivate integration. That seems rather contradictory, but it doesn’t matter what I think. What matters is if you see that. The experiencer has always been the experience, or one. This seems more like mind being consciously aware of that fact to me. I wouldn’t say life is a game, but that when you actually act in accordance to the notion that the experiencer is seperate from that which it experiences. Then we get caught up in life, and think of it as a game; a perpetual conflict between what we (the experiencer wants), “the idea”, and what (the experience actully is) “the fact”, or there is that expression, “caught in the rat race.” Basically mind (conditioned consciousness) is able to see that the experiencer has always been one and the same movement as experience. This is still a movement of mind, as it implies conscious attention as the i. In that mind-mental realization (thought being conscious of that fact), makes for a silence naturally. Only in that silence of mind does this emptiness-nothingness come to be. This cannot be a self imposed silence, movement of volition-will-effort, from what “I” have observed of course. So technically I wouldn’t say it’s the awakening of the mind that realizes nothing, but the silenced movement of mind that nothingness is then actualized. In “my” case there is an endless movement of death to experience, knowledge, memory) every minute-second. This is a natural movement now or is an instantaneous action that happens in and of itself. It is not a movement of desire, and it happens through a kind of passive attention to the entirety of a happening as a whole. Attention to inner movements of the thought, sensation, and the environmental conditions, without any psychological compulsion to change what is actually the case. All psychological experiences are finalized and not carried over onto the next moment. This is what I would refer to as dying to every moment so the next can be new. We must understand the nature of experience-self-thought-time, so there can be an understanding of life. In that understanding of life, we see the significance of death, and in the seeing of the value in that, we see that death and life are really one. Without seeing the value in life we avoid death, and without dying we cannot live. To live is to die and to die is to live. This is not a one time deal. It is a constant movement of dying to the old, so the new can be born afresh. An art, I would say. The most creative movement that can take place.

The absence of freedom, the i, and time, being one and the same movement of becoming, or maintaining psychological security.

It all boils down to whether or not there is an ending of this psychological knowledge. Clinging to knowledge that severs self-interest. Until that ends, continuesly every day, minute, every second, fear will continue to call the shots, and influence unholy action (incomplete-contradictory action) There is no understanding in the absence of freedom, as the i who seeks security in time.

Fear striving to evade itself, nourishing the very movement of fear itself.

Both belief or disbelief make for self deception. To be able to attend to what is said without either acceptance or denial is a necessity to understand in communication. To accept blindly, or to deny without understanding first, implies a conclusion was made prior to any attempt to attend to what was is said. This all implies fear, and seeking psychological security in ones own preconceived notions. To be enslaved to desire, seeking to be validated psychologically. This is where thought becoems corrupt, contradictory, and causes conflict in relationship-communication.

Where there is fear, the subtle movement of belief (self deception) will inevitably follow.

?? Psychological dependence

? As long as this false division between the doer and the doing is taking place it is as all important or belived in very deeply. In that conflict and compulsion of “having” to capture “psychological contentment” will remain. The doer has to do to maintain is continuity-permanence. You know the whole, “ hey I am here feed me psychologically” lol This is self preservation. This is conditioned in our society as well, which perpetuates this whole movement of the i who has to do, to maintain a sense of security-safety. Security-safety psychologically is an illusion. It’s absolutely necessary, yet it cannot be captured or maintained by seeking psychologically. That is seeking security in the mechanism that causes insecurity, which is thought.

If one does anything to serve there own personal agenda (self serve) then it is not sincere. Simple right. Just watch your own motives throughout the day. It becomes rather obvious. There will be subtle movement to evade that fact. Watch that as well. you will see that most action is conditioned (dependent on circumstances of oneself) this is what is meant by finite-fragmented action. When that movement of i (conditioned action ends) Then there is whole action. The action of truth. Integrated action. ALL ACTION THAT IS WHOLE IS COMPASSIONATE-GENUINE. FREEDOM WITHOUT FEAR IMPLIES COMPASSION.

As robdl said, compassion is not of causation. Compassion is when the movement of time as the i (psychological seeking) ends.

Indeed, therefore born of fear, and not compassion. Your two cents are not yours, but common to woman-man kind Compassion cannot be when there is fear-self. Any movement of psychological becoming implies fear. If this movement to become psychologically secure is taking place fear is calling the shots. If that is so, then all action is conditioned. Any conditioned responses-reaction such as fear prevents the action of compassion.

The self-thought doesn’t want to stay empty. It is always looking to fill, add, accumulate, seek, record, to protect itself (capture and sustain permanence as the i)

Hello @Victor Mgazi Where there is an experience there will be anxiety-fear. Would you say that to experience nothing would imply no experiencer-experience? For me, death of (experience, knowledge, memory) as the i, implies no fear, no anxiety, and obviously no experiencer-experience that is then continued or imprinted onto “the now” or “the happening” also, there is a constant process of death that takes place. Seems to have started as a daily phenomena, but then went to minutes or even seconds. So “I” (experience, knowledge, memory) as the i, am constantly dying, or that memory as the I is not continued over to the next moment. This is how I feel there are these extended periods of time where there is this total emptiness-nothingness of conciousness. Really seems to be no consciousness-thought at all. There is still thought when needed to do something, but when it is not needed thought remains dormant. So the I (experience, knowledge, memory) is not in movement anymore, just a movement of thought without identification. No registration, recollection, identification, and therefore no experience at all. To be headless. So to me the ending of that continued experience is this nothingness that is spoken of. But to me death is ongoing. We are perpetualy dying to the past (experience, knowledge, memory, as the i)...If not we get this sense of temporary death. Or partial death. Because then experience as the i continues to be accumulated as the i after. This is where passive awareness comes in.

@Lorcan have you gone into the nature of thought or the self before?

Sorry about some of the edits, I have one those cats who thinks it’s a parrot lol

Are you free of fear now? Uh, well I don’t promote the common self inquiry method on this forum and i don’t promote meditation as in cultivated silence of the mind. I never personaly saw the significance in any of that. I don’t want to play guru or any thing, but I would start by understanding the human conciousness (thought-self) very well. After all youy consciousness-thought is not yours and mine, but is just conciousness-thought. One stream. Only we makes distinctions between yours and mine because of the nature of thought itself. You will grasp all this if you explore the nature of thought. So when you explore this, you are not investigating into your personal problems, but the problems of man. Again, I do not personally promote self-inquiry-meditation as recommended on this forum for my own reasons, but if you insist on going that route I would look into @Shanmugam. He and I do differ in some ways, but I have spoken with him via message , and I see that he has ended this fear, conflict, and no longer compelled to seek security in the illusory structure of psychological time. If you are not interested in that “a path” I would start by understanding thought, which is to understand yourself. Of course I take a great deal of interest in this and would love to talk about it as often as needed. I’m naturally interested in it all.

Also how we depend on an authority to bring about a sense of psychological security breeds fear, and at the same time destroys psychological and physical security in the world. All this breeds fear.

In ourselves my friend. Understand fear in your daily life. See it arise, how it moves, how it tries to evade the fact of itself to the idea of what it should instead be. How it rationalizes it’s own movement. How it corrupts all action we take. How it destroys relationship with ourselves and others, and so on. I haven’t read much on fear, mostly observed it in myself. One thing to look into would be fragmentation of thought, and how the ego and thought relate to one anohter. After all all fear is a manifestation of thought-self.

It’s called fear, and in that fear seeking control, psychological security.

@LorcanTo me “higher conciousness Sages” are subtly concerned with power, and in most cases are as ambitious as a Wall Street broker or “tier one political leader. If you observe very closely, both promote controle, both exploit others, both advocate some sort of propaganda. Why do we want to “change society”?? Do we see that we “the individual” is society?? To me, not to concern yourself with the abstraction “society” and deal with the fact “the individual” (you) is what is important. Has fear ceased to call the shots in your life? If so all action is whole, and you then cease to contribute to all the chaos in society. Do you a life of order?? If so you are in so doing bringing about a change to the stream of conciousness itself. After all “the Society” is an expression of “the individual”. If you actually live a orderly life, free of division, conflict, contradiction, then that will be expressed and picked up by others. Keep order in your own house before trying to impose it elsewhere is what i am implying. This just seems like an intelligent way to go about it. Idk

Me three... They don’t say that to my face though of course? @Lorcan i don’t know anything about spiral dynamics, nor do I want to, but I do know the formation of self images make for the inevitable conflict in relationship. If we don’t form a self image about ourselves, we don’t project images onto others. In this there is the beauty of actual relationship. Seems to simple and general, but it’s so.