Faceless

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You should start a thread that goes into this.

If you are talking about a specific technique, I am not. As technique implies a doing. I am referring to non-action or passive awareness.

@tsuki this is interesting what you are saying, although different then what I am referring to. When I speak of creative movement, I am speaking of (at essence). There is an actualized absense of registration, recollection, identification. And this is sustained in long intervals now. As actualized phenomena-experiencing-non experiencing. I’m finding it difficult to fully see what your saying right now. I will keep coming back and observe your posts though. I have a feeling we are referring to something different. But I see your posts as particularly interesting when it comes to writing and sharing-expression. Again let me read some more posts and see if I can get what you are getting at. ??

That’s perhaps my greatest strength lol. The intellectualization remark was a jk? There is no rejection as in reaction. Actually the unconditioned mind doesn’t react-act as so. This is what I mean by not moving positively of negatively. There is no rejection-accepting. Of course growth is life. I’m not opposed to this of course. I just don’t feed the “psychological monkey.” To me growth psychologically is obviously a nourisher of reaction-action. A preventer of headlessness. I understand this. Exclusion both are able to co-exist and do. No, I would say not. There must be a cessation of the fuel that perpetuates (fullness) being action-reaction, the chooser. This is what I do mostly. Understanding and applied passive awareness which allows for a mush more deep rooted understanding, and which also makes for a much more extensive unaltered awareness. I would say the understanding of mind and awareness of mind is rather simple to me now. But there is always an increase holistic understanding and awareness. This I see as being an ongoing process. I don’t see it like that. From the place of passive attention, the unconditioned mind neither accepts or rejects. That’s how there is this non-contributing to the reactive-active movement of thought. In this there is no perpetuation of response that further initiates fear, which causes increased registration-recording, which is then recollected, and projected. As I see it the conditioned mind rejects and accepts. This is the fuel that nourishes time, (projection of experience, knowledge, memory). Indeed so. I understand this as well. I am aware of this. There is no action in either direction. There is actually no action being taken. again there is no action in either direction being initiated. Do you see what I mean? I don’t see no reason as a limit. Also, I don’t see limitation as symptom in a bad way. It is just a function. ? I used symptom when could have used product. Lol I didn’t mean symptom as in diseased. And yes I agree the conditioned mind is co-present within the unconditioned mind. I have talked about this but in terms of consciousness. The conditioned consciousness being co-preset in the unconditioned consciousness....And yes to see the annihilated nature of mind takes a willingness to welcome and embrace extreme fear. To commune with fear in relationship. To embrace it if you will. no what I mean by measure is thought itself. We are using measure right now. All thought is measure. That’s what I mean. Contemplation has its place, but thought itself is a conditioned response of limitation. So anything it response with will be finite, limited. I also see the conditioned mind as a function within the unconditioned mind. It is only when we seek psychological security in this function that I see it as being unhealthy. What I’m saying is thought conditions the mind and the mind perpetuates that conditioning with its own movement. Thought is conditioned-dualistic, and we are conditioned to that stream itself. Mind and no-mind are both one and the same movement of mind. But any movement of thought implies measure. We will have to go into this more. definitely, deep headlessness is a difficult thing to inquire into though. There is not really any recollection of the time frame spent without a head. Also this only comes about with the sustained passive attention-awareness of all movement inward-outward. This headlessness is totally unpremeditated. There is no memory recording in this happening. I can only inquire very partially, which I have shared already. Again there is no (content in time) to recollect. It is quite difficult to explain. I can inquire before headlessness, but when I am no longer present, (no head) there is no more inquiry. It’s something else friend. you as well, buddy??

Well to just be unaware is kind of a perpetuation of doing. To start with keep it simple and to simply be aware of inattention suffices. You will find by being attentive of innatention really takes away that sense of tension, agitation, friction, conflict. Ultimatly to understand the whole of thought-self is very important. To be able to identify(be familiar with thought-self activity) or (a doing). To be able to notice certain movements of (doings) that would ordinarily seem other than so. If we can see the connection of all ‘seemingly’ seperate and distint doings, and see them as being actually one unitary movement, this makes possible the necessity of that effortless passive attention. In all honesty until there is freedom-order in thought. This means one sees the implications of psychological time, and its effects of disorder in thought. To me, unless one does not have an insight into the whole of psychological time, do nothing or passive awareness, will be futile. To me, there must be order-freedom first. It’s not my intention to lecture and so on, this is just of particular interest to me.

It’s quite strange, most my writing just spills out without even thinking about it. You as well?

We all know what intellectualization implies, ?but here we go for kicks anyways. That boundary or paradox (bound by no reason) seems to be a manifestation of measure-reason, which is an expression of the inherently selective mind-(thought-thinker), that is programmed to go beyond its self imposed limit to capture that which is whole(unlimited). But when the limit of reason ceases to act as the determining limit,(no thinker), so does that limitation. No bondage to measure, No limit, no boundary. That’s what thought does, it sets limits then perpetually attempts to go beyond them. Seems the unconditioned mind is not bound by no-reason, but is unbound by the that which bounds; polarity of the opposites(the chooser). Limitation then becomes limpid; free of the that which darkens, hinders, obstructs, and therefore is clear, unrestrained; or infinitely versatile. The unconditioned mind is not bound nor unbound, by either or, this or that, or any movement of opposition for that matter. Only a conditioned mind seems to place such limits, conditions, and boundaries, due to its calculating nature and structure, as that is its very function. All things; that in which the mind labels,“things”, are conditioned. Also we could say that LIFE itself is conditioned; a interrelationship of mutual interdependence. In this sense yes conditions are law. Life is relationship and everything depends on something else. As is the particular and universal mind. Conditions are absolutely a must indeed. ? But I wouldn’t say the unconditioned mind is flipped upside-down, as that implies its opposite, also an indication that the mind has once again placed its usual pattern of duality, being one ☝️ of its limits. Neither would I conclude with any certainty that the mind is closer to being (flipped inside out), although that does seem to make more sense from what has been witnessed without the veil of the witnesser, which in my case is an actual everyday occurrence. I would still have to negate that statement and conclude with uncertainty that it would most likely implode in on itself into nothing? but ??‍♂️ You see we can play this game of playing with form all we want, but the simple fact remains, until the mind ceases to project the veil of itself all this talk remains a symptom of the conditioned mind. Contemplation; being the movement of thought, will never capture the infinite nature of that which is revealed when all measure, (experience, knowledge, memory), ends as (the i). We can play hide and seek with ourselves and self perpetuate this movement of measure,(the self), everlastingly, but we all know deep down that that wall of limitation is on the horizon. This I admit was quite an rant, and I must say, such a delightful waste of time. ? Thanks for sharing tsuki, always a pleasure indeed. I appreciate it??....great chance for writing practice. That always can use some cultivation. Also @robdl, @who chit, @SoonHei, @Saumaya, @Victor Mgazi, @Arkandeus, I really appreciate your guys responses. Nice to communicate our interests with one another. ? ??

Indeed

I understand my friend, but when this ending of the veil is actualized, no pointing is any longer necessary. If this has been actualized in ones daily life, there is no need for a pointer. Only those who actualize this will see the whole of that in my original post. I appreciate your pointer never the less my friend. Rather generous of you indeed.??

Only a head measures, compares, anticipates. Only a head inhibits what is already inherent in (THE HAPPENING), in and of itself. Advancement implies cultivation of time. What is unknown is not found in time, but actualized with that which is unbound by time. Advancement implies cultivated “knowing-doing”, through means of ambition, will, and a search for attainment. A continuous cultivation of theory, conceptualization, ideation. A dependence on (experience, knowledge, memory), as the i who seeks an answer to questions, it itself has invented in its search for certainty. All this implies an attachment, clinging to the known, which is one and the same movement as dependence on the continuity and sustainment of self-thought, (Self perpetuation). Here is the good news @SoonHei??, headlessness is not the result of gradual progression,(time). It has nothing to do with being advanced. Personally, I am not advanced, nor do I want to be, thank god. ?... To be headless implies the lowest level of being. Of course being unbound by measure, the lowest level doesn’t take second, third, or even forth place by any means. On the contrary, water that seeks the lowest level, so does that of timeless BE-ing, which is sacred. Question is can this movement of time seeking security in its own movement end? Only a head seeks to advance, progress, cultivate, and grow. Cultivation has its place as a function in practical matters, but when it comes to the actualization of headlessness, which implies ULTIMATE FREEDOM, cultivation-time, has no place what so ever. Freedom is now, or it is never, and only in freedom is there a possibility for ones head to go missing. Freedom without compulsion; being a programed motive influenced by the fear of punishment,(continual uncertainty-impermanence), in which that reactionary movement seeks security in the attainment of a reward. An example of time perpetually seeking shelter in its own movement of time, like a self fulfilling prophecy. The only requirement is holistic seeing; seeing the fact that no way, as way, is the only non-way to commune with that which is unlimited, vast, and immeasurable. Another we can ask ourselves is; is advancement, cultivation, and progression necessary when it comes to living without limitation? As those three, being actually one and the same movement of time,(psychological becoming or not becoming), is incomplete action circumscribed in and of itself.

?? Is there a difference between [yes or no] and [neither yes nor no]? If you read this again carefully, it is apparent, friend. Those questions are answered with the actual cessation of a head, (experience, knowledge, memory).

Specifically having to do with @Feel Good‘s question yesterday. Sorry for late response. I spent yesterday without a head. To analyze the self-thought loop, that implies we are separate from that which we analyze. Only then is there this formulation of concept accumulation, (abstractions), that follow, in which then are adhered too by control and imitation. Thought-self has then created an abstraction out of a fact, then is either compelled to accept or condemn certain abstractions in accordance to its own accumulated bias-prejudice, and so on. As far as the content we attempt to analyze, “We are it”. There is nothing “we” can do about “it”. To do anything about it will ultimately causes contradicting action because you’re going into the observation dividing yourself from the fact from the very beginning. What is observed,(the fact), and “you” are one and the same movement of the fragmented nature of thought. Can we watch without any movement of division-abstraction as “the i”, fear-time, (psychological becoming)?? Can we see (holistically), the fact of it all without accepting or condemning according to our machanical impulse to self sooth the psyche-self. Holistic understanding will not come from analyzing your self. If there is any form of duality taking place, (contradicting desires, seeking psychological security), will then prevent actual understanding of the fact,(what is the case). ................................................................................. Nothing I write is meant to be a conceptually accumulated, or treated as an idea to be pursued, but is only a pointing to something that can be observed in ourselves. Only if this (analysis), being abstraction based understanding, is not being employed of course. In observation without analysis there will be no form of abstraction. As long as we see “the i” as being separate from that which it is observing there will be positive and negative action of the self, (volition-desire), that will inevitably evade what is, to what should be. An example of action influenced by this false notion the perceiver being separate from that which it perceives. The majority of ‘my’ posts are only to point out the inner ongoings of thought-self for the most part. But we have to be able to observe free-of this accumulation,(experience, knowledge, memory), which is inevitably bias in its very nature. Ultimately yes, (FEAR-TIME), perpetuates this self feeding loop of itself. Thought seeking security in itself.

Isn’t it crazy how we try an apply “time to attain” freedom ?

Start nearer to home with what is. Cannot go beyond where one has yet begun. First there must be order in thought- psychologically. Until there is order there, one will find that going beyond is an impossibility. Order-Freedom comes first, not at the end. There must be freedom from the compulsion it accept or deny. Freedom unbound by psychological bias-prejudice. So we can go into investigation, inquiry, and so on, without that bias-prejudice distorting-corrupting the investigation-inquiry’s coherence or integrity.

The application of thought for practical matters is a must. But to solve psychological problems thought-time has no place whatsoever. That’s the good news. The question is do we see that psychological freedom is always now, and not found in time?

It’s quite amusing to observe how the self being a fragment of thought, wants to use thought, (which fuels and sustains the continuity of self), to end its own movement of self. The way I see it, the self seeks security in thought by sustaining itself through thought by procrastination of action. Thought loves to procrastinate, yet self deceive itself into thinking it is progressing gradually. The self is trying to cultivate time in order to end time. Cultivation leads to procrastination when it comes to psychological freedom. Psychologically, time plays no part when it comes to Freedom.

@tsuki That is what I share buddy, the significance of Freedom. Freedom to observe the fact without the compulsion to escape. The importance of freedom without the influence of authority, being spiritual, psychological, and the authority of personal experience-knowledge accumulated which is clinged onto. A movement of fear seeking security in its own movement of desire-psychological becoming. Look forward to continuing later, tsuki

This is how I know we are not quite meeting yet. This is difficult for many it seems. The motive-volition to move positively-negatively. All movement in this direction or any direction (goal-means to and end) is a movement of thought-self. Dead end. There will be a passive attention to this. ⬆️ Thank you tsuki for the discussion. Maybe we will meet one another soon enough??

Ultimately I am interested in sharing all the subtle movements of “seemingly seperate-divided” movements of thought-self. Pointing at the importance of being able to identify these incomplete reactions-responses, and also pointing at the importance of (not contributing), to that contradictory movement of positive-negative movement of fear-desire-volition. To show that all movement of time-self is, and will inevitably be, incomplete-finite-limited, and only perpetuate its own movement of disorder-incomplete action. Incomplete action, otherwise known as (action) will always move in accordance to time-fear-fragmentation, being a mechanical movement of division-contradiction itself. Any action influenced by contradiction will be conflicting and cause disorder in our daily life, especially relationship with yourself, others, and the environment. Whole action otherwise known as non-action is to cease to contribute to this movement of contradiction. Therefore (fear-time), being one and he same movement of desire seeking pleasure, gratification, validation, and so on, is not further nourishing the pattern of incomplete action. This sharing stresses the importance in non-action or holistic action born of intelligence.

If we can meet here perhaps I can go onto what I mean by headlessness(the sacred). Until then it will be futile indeed. It’s difficult indeed to communicate this isn’t it?

Only intelligence which is holistic sees the limitation of thought-self-time.

There can only be whole insight when we commune with what is the case. To see (unconditioned observation) the consequences of continuing in the pattern of time one negates the whole compulsion to move in that pattern all together. To see the danger and not go near it. A holistic action born of infinite intelligence.

Oh Lolol. Is that what is is all about. Nice to see the whole of ?, there has to be the ending of this?(Fear-time) . When I say (the i) or (self) I mean ultimately (fear-psychological becoming). When we stay with what is there is communion with the fact which implies the absense of choice(contradiction, confusion, conflict). (TIME) What i share on the forum is to stay with ?fear-time, and understand it. There can only be complete action that ends ? when there is a holistic perception-insight into the whole movement of psychological time-thought self(time).