Faceless

@Mighty Mouse yeah Not being aware that thought is moving. That’s one reason of course. Thought to is deceptive in its self.

@Joseph Maynor I’ve never looked at that way. I’ll investigate it in that perspective. ?

An example would be the self which is thought not knowing that it itself is a movement of thought. Hints this movement of fragmentation. If not watched closely thought will fragment without even realizing that there was a movement of fragmentation taking place. Therefore it is sensed that there has been a moment comlplety free of thought that has taken place. But his may not be the case. Sorry if I’m not coming acrossed. My son is jumping on my back and my head as I write this lol.

@7thLetter I think I understand what your implying my friend. And I see your point on moving in the direction of positivity as being a movment of thought torwards abstractions being beliefs, living according to ideas, and so on. Also the escaping from what is actually taking place “negativity” into what is seen as positive which is an “idea” seems to bring about a further contradiction and perpetetual conflict psychologically. It seems reasonable that there is nothing wrong with cultivation of the self when it comes to function and for making a nice lifestyle. And yes cultivation does tend to become a mechanical self centered habitual state of being for some, but not all. Again cultivation to make for a physically comfortable and secure life for yourself and your family is not a problem at all. It’s when this cultivation is carried over into the psychological realm, thats where there becomes a problem. Because then this cultivation becomes mechanical, creates further fragmentation, and prevents what I think most people actually really want and need in life, which is psychological order. To chase positivity or avoid negativity will never bring psychological order. But to listen, watch, learn, observe, the process of thought “the self” and it’s subtle, mechanical, and fragmented nature is the only way to bring about order in ones life. This is what I refer to as an art of living. I hope I don’t come across as picking either side here. Just an attempt to observe objectively. I apologize if it seems otherwise friends.

People get caught in deception because they don’t know when thought is moving. Sometimes a thought can go unnoticed as being thought and attribute to itself that is is not thought. Thought is very cleaver and subtle. ??‍♂️

@Serotoninluv ah i see. Isn’t it beautiful this freedom? This timelessness seem to extend for longer periods at a time. I refer to it as being headless. My girlfriend hates it lol

@Serotoninluv hmm thats interesting... and that sounds like a cool scene? Since then can this centerlessness or timelessness act without the consumption of that plant?

@Serotoninluv I’ve never heard of Ayahuasca.. what is that?

@Serotoninluv I understand my friend Outside agency being any chemical substance, method, technique, system, practice, routine, which never the less becomes mechanical and perpetual movements of thought. For example, any movement made by the center “thought” to capture that which is immeasurable. All movements and motives by the self being desire, will, ambition, hope, and so on. Any movement by the “i” “you” to sustain itself through volitional activities. The objects of volition vary of course. Have I made myself a little clearer my friend?

@cetus56 thats it friend ??

@cetus56 one way to explain it is the “i” comes to and says where have “I” been. And any memory of this realm is almost if not all non existent. The i just sees that somthing immeasurable has taken place. In the attempt to explain of course. Which falls short. Way short. lol

@cetus56 It’s not a movement of knowledge. Knowledge comes in when describing.

A realm of centerlessness. The beauty of centerlessness is somthing sacred.

@Serotoninluv not really an altered state. Maybe I shouldn’t use state as an explanation. More like no state... Yeah I use to run a lot to. That would qualify as a altered state. But ultimately still a movment of will or by the center or thought. This “centerlessness” is far from an altered state. It’s totaly unbounded. It’s unconditional quality makes for beauty on a whole nother realm. It’s almost like there’s only an experience when explained. But at the actual “moment” of centerlessness it does not qualify as an experience. This centerlessness is total joy without “reduction” if I can use that word, due to fragmentation and distortion of thought. This make sense buddy? Verbally as an explanation. Because this description is not the actuality itself. Just a pointer??

@alyra ? ??

@Serotoninluv I understand friend Again, when I relate pleasure with psychedelics I simply mean that there would be some kind of end result after using the psychedelic which is then tried to be achieved again and again... The seeking of an experience beyond the experiences of everyday life is a movement to fulfill a desired outcome. For example, In this sense the outcome may be “enlightenment” an experience of expanded consciousness and so on. So there is a movement to come about a totally new experience. This creates an image to be achieved or attained. Now if that image is pursued with the a movement such as thought being hope, aspiration, ambition, dream; More intention, idea, plan, design, aim, and so on there becomes a psychological attachment in attaining that “new experience” When an outside agency such as psychedelics is introduced it become a means to that end. Therefore once that chemical is introduced into the brain a certain experience is induced and thought attributes to that experience and implies that “expanded consciousness is captured.” Now I didn’t mean to say there is pleasure while the chemical is in action working in the brain itself. What I meant was pleasure arises from the original motive of having a greater experience and when a means to an end are implemented “psychedelics”. So in short the pleasure comes about from the outcome after one has had there “insight” and so on. They feel they have captured something immense so there then comes a sort of gratification, sense of achievement towards there goal of enlightenment, and so on. U see the pattern of pleasure arises because there then becomes a pattern that the me “thought” constantly wants to re-experience that original experience or top it with an even better experience. A constant movement of perpetual conflict. ? But one needs to see that any experience whatsoever is always within the limited field of thought. There can only be an experience when thought is in action. That’s the problem with thought, it attributes to itself the quality of not being thought. Thought acts and doesn’t know it is doing so. So my point is this quite simply friend, if there is an experience at all then that is still an action of thought. It’s only when there is no center “experience” that thought is not in action. And again I don’t mind what others choose to do. I respect and appreciate everyone equally. Thanks for your reply buddy??

There’s the field of thought. Any movement within that field is where the ego operates. So any attempt such as hope, aspiration, ambition, dream, intention, idea, plan, design, aim, is a movement by the ego, self, me, you, thought. Any movement of desire which is within the field of thought is an action taken from ego. So what does this imply?

@alyra ?

Who is it that wants to defeat the ego?

Stop worrying and enjoy your workouts. Don’t get to critical. Change it up and see what works best for you.

I don’t what Leo says but...That’s the problem with thought. Thought doesn’t now when it is in action. Thought attributes the quality of not being thought. Or not operating when it actually is.

Ive never watche’d an enlightenment video. Are they good? I don’t want to ruin my quiet mind? will they ruin “my” quiet mind? ?

@Thanatos13 how to rewire the electric in my house is what I implied. Or figuring how to fix something on our vehicle. Learning a language and so on

@Joseph Maynor yeah deep rooted Lol

By the way I use the iPhone as a computer. I’ve never been the computer type. I generally use it for music, to acquire functional knowledge and so on