Faceless

I assure you that it’s still a means of measure to acheive the immeasurable The immeasureable can not be invited Which makes it beautiful ?

I have never even considered taking those. Because if you undertand the nature and process of thought/the self you see very clearly that any experience however “great” “powerful” is still a thought induced projection.. I know It seems like it wouldn’t be so. It’s a very subtle thing nahm.

What we take in and project out yes.

Ok ?? an intelligible response would have been how does one come to such a conclusion but??‍♂️ Well i guess one will have to find out for themselves.

What don’t people get about psychodelic experiences being thought induced projections??? Such an experience is still the product of thought. Experience is thought. If people observed themselves very very carefully they would see that to. This takes constant attention and care. Any experience is the experiencer experiencing themselves. Being, experiencing what they already know. One can only experience what one knows from memory, knowledge, and experience. Its only when one ceases to experience is there an action of wholeness. This action is sacred, holy, and empty. It’s the beauty of the quiet mind. A mind/conciousness that is not limited by its conditioning. This is headlessness. A movement outside of measure. Once in a while there is a deep deep ceasing of the me and it’s always very shocking and comes to be when there is a total lack of volition in a certain direction. It’s quite extraordinary.

The entity that is afraid is fear. Can’t escape fear, that’s what the self is. To escape fear and seek non fear perpetuates a movement of conflict. If there is a desire to escape fear then there’s also the fear that that fear won’t be extinguished. So ??‍♂️ Remain with fear. Stop reading books on philosophy with there concepts, ideas, and start learning about the very mechanism we use on a daily basis that brings about conflict and suffering. Learn about thought as a process. Learn about the nature, structure, and substance of thought. Because that’s learning about yourself. Thats the only way

See a professional Lolol.. another system, routine, method based on concepts, ideas, beliefs?? Nah Knowone is going to solve your problems. Especially someone with a mc Donald’s education on concepts of psychology. There’s no intellectual knowledge that’s going to help you friends.

Your not seeing the significance friend. This is not some romantic idea. When you see, understand, comprehend the whole of thought by seeing its limits and negating all that it has put together by thought there becomes freedom from the self/thought. As I said we can’t know truth. I said a mind/consciousness with the Essence/quality of truth. Thought that runs true. Very different. It’s a quality of thought that isn’t disorderly by illusions and deceptions in the pursuit of psychological becoming. When conciousness is filled with this ambition to achieve/attain then that I is not within the field of measure any longer. That seeking, wanting to attain, looking towards the future to bring about a sense of security ceases. Only when there is order of thought is reality free of illusion and deception. Only then is thought orderly and healthy. Drop the whole absolute bs to. Drop the immeasurable as well. As long as your thought is in disorder your conciousness is still working under the conditioned brain. When that conditioned brain is still in movement that conciousness is still full of all its fears, sorrows, beliefs, and so on. It’s simple, when you see that seeking leads to only to more disorder then you are free from the movement of volition, the me who wants to escape to fulfil a sense of security. When this freedom from the me and becoming ceases then only can you investigate whether or not there is this immeasurable state or not. See for yourself. Don’t just say no I disagree and that’s it. Investigate. Skepticism is great but not without following it up with an thourough objective observation. What I have stated here is not difficult. But it takes a freedom from our limited structure of thought to inquire without any bias and prejudices to be objective. If you want to explore this in depth look into scientist David Bohm theoretical physicist and quantum mechanics and J. Krishnamurti. They go into this in dialog in depth my friend. Check it out if you are willing to investigate without your own bias and prejudices. What they go into is rational, logical, and reasonable. Not no hocus pokus. Freedom from the know by J. Krishnamurti is a great one and thought as a system by David Bohm is also a great one. Then there’s also one by both of them called “the ending of time” by far the most interesting revolutionary readings or listening you will ever get Involved with. They explain this immeasurable and the limits of thought quite well. Better than I could explain to you. Plus there’s a lot to go into that I could not explain over this post lol. Check it out

Stay with that emptiness..that’s a sign that there is discontent with everything that thought has put together. U see the narrow superficial structure of thought and are not compelled to react to it because you see it’s limits and its shallow nature. Most people escape that discontent into some-thing that fills that void. That’s why one never gets that immeasurable state of nothingness. They are afraid to remain empty and therefore fill that space of fear with some form/projection of thought which they think will bring a sense of security psychologically. If you stay with that sorrow, loneliness, and fear and let it play out by not reacting ‘suppression or control’ you will see that it will start to fade. So don’t escape that emptiness. Any movement to escape is a movement of will that seeks psychological security witch only leads to disorder and prepetual conflict. Simply let conciousness empty all its contents being your fears, pleasures, desires, beliefs, and so on. By not fueling those reactions with your desire/will remain with that discontentment and don’t try to escape. Either way you can’t escape anyhow because you are not different from those desires. Once u see that fact you will remain in conflict because the reason for this conflict is the result of the division through thought that there is a difference between “you” the controller and that which you desire to control. There is no division. This seperate you is where the confusion and conflict manifests. Do you see this? I would start off by not asking others for anything, because how do you known they know? Listening to others assumptions, opinions, and ideas about what they think they know and what you don’t is never going to be any help. So don’t listen to anyone and don’t take what they suggest as any form of truth, this includes myself??‍♂️. Because truth can not be maintained by any thought/thinker/self. If you stay with that emptiness and all the conditioning and it’s content dissolves by seeing that reaction, suppression/control solves nothing, there will no longer be a self “who reacts” or that clings to that conditioning/content to sustain a state of security. Therefore no movement of will to resist what is. The resistance of what is is where the conflict arises. Only when the self is not truth is. Only in emptiness is there an essence or quality of truth. Just do your own thing friend

Future is now. The future stays the same or gets only worse unless fundamental change of pattern takes place in consciousness or our “individual” everyday lives. If we are not aware of thought as a process then these problems of detachment, division, conflict in relationship, being local, national, political, religious, cultural and so on, then things will never get better and will inevitably get worse. Science, religion, political ideas, or any other form of outward imposition will not solve this problem of relationship. Any attempt to bring about order in society through self centered “the me and my security” thinking will only make things worse. It absurd that one would actually think that taking a drug could bring about such order. Such an idea has already disproved itself just amongst the general crowd in this forum. It’s an obvious prepetual mechanical movement of becoming which is a thought induced “self centered” activity that leads only to self deception. And it’s also self evident that taking psychodelics don’t bring about a fundamental transformation in conflict and relationship. People on this forum take them on what seems to be, by reading various posts, a regular basis and this seems to be nothing other than a habitual crutch to experience something different and out of the ordinary daily routine. It’s apperent and so easily observable that the division in ourselves and in our everyday life is projected actually through the communication within this forum. People people constantly arguing to fuel there own self image and claiming absurdities to bring about a sense of respectability and righteousness in opposition to another. So it’s obvious that these drugs are not the answer. As long as this doesn’t change well everything will stay as it is or will only worsen. If we care about our own ambitions, projected attainments, and needs to become psychologically secure, there will be nothing but division, confusion, contradiction, and conflict. So the only way to bring about a change is obviously for us to change our own patterns of thought. Which means understand that very process as the self. There is no other way. Know one else can change you. If we all change oursleves then the society changes. Reincarnation?? When we die others are born. And when they are born others die. In knowing there is no you and I, but that that only takes place in thought we see that you are as much as me as I am you. So this is an obvious fact that when I die I will come back in another life form or another, because life is life. So there are consequences for everything thing that we do now. So this goes along with the idea on reincarnation. What I do or don’t do now determines the outcome in “my” next life. If we continue in this petty, superficial, immature manner of self sentered action or non action, it’s only obvious that are next life as a me, I, or it, will suffer those consequences. So reincarnation in that sense seems totally obvious and not even debatable. So if we see that unless we bring about a revolution in our oursleves then life for any future being will ultimately be a experience of suffering. Question is do we want to do what’s necessary to create a better environment for oursleves/others? Thought is the very reason for this disorder and disfunction in the world. Can we become aware of its process which means can we become aware of the processes of the self?

@egoless I know ??‍♂️

Does this third eye advance to a fourth and fifth? What about the sixth ?

When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow — you are not understanding yourself... Bruce Lee ??

@egoless i thjnk it’s essential to stop trying to achieve or attain that goal that’s been projected, and just learn about yourself/thought/reality. Because it’s interesting would be enough no? If there’s order of thought then “maybe” the immeasurable is in reach. But you don’t know for sure so just accept that until there is order. There’s no use in seeking the limitless until then. So inquire into not how to attain order but what brings about disorder. In the comprehension of that maybe the action of order will present itself naturally. Only then can we approach the immeasurable. Good luck

@egoless Doesn’t mean thats the end of the investigation either?

@egoless Using psychodelics is still a movement of psychological time. Therefore a setup for illusion and deception. One may use psychodellis for fun and induce a different kind of experience, but this is still an experience “a thought induced projection recollected from memory, knowledge, experience ” either way. Like I said before the immeasurable can not be attained by means of measure. I know that’s hard to swallow for some but ??‍♂️ The approach is the key and that ain’t it.

Yep

Practical affairs the self is useful. Psychologically thought has no place. Psychological time is an illusion. Any movement from the self is a movement torwards self deception.

Can’t go from measure to the immeasurable. This approach is futile

Is there absolute knowing??? I question this If one grasps/comprehends knowing “thought” then it’s obvious

It’s no wonder people don’t think for themselves. Relying on knowledge, past experiences, and our limited capacity and rather selective nature of memory is conditioned from the beginning. Government, education, traditional values, religious values and so on. Once one sees the limits of thought and there prejudices and biases there becomes a deep rooted discontentment with its whole structure. Only when one stays with that discontent and doesn’t escape through the desire to achieve contentment of another aspect of thought is there such a thing as individual thinking or “thinking for onseself”. It’s only when through this IMMOVABILITY to react to thought and move in a particular direction to achieve some goal or attainment can there be a totaly different pattern of thinking which remains outside the box. Or any movement within thought being disorderly by its selectivness or assertiveness will always remain within that box. This can be applicable to scientific observation and in our daily life as human beings with everyday psychological problems. In fact this where freedom from the self/thought begins. Only when there is total discontentment with the whole of thought/self and one remains with that discontentment can there be the action of negation of everything that remains in that box. Therefore a totaly new, original, creative pattern of perception can act on the whole of thought which brings about a totaly different pattern and quality of thinking. May seem very unusual and confusing, and words can make this complicated but if one goes deep enough they will in see what’s being said.

Any thought induced conclusion is wrong. ANY!!!!

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I understand. People either will listen or they will not. If one won’t well??‍♂️. At least we see the significance of sharing. Most important thing when sharing with another is to see that all resistance and hostility that is reflected back to the communicator is an indication that one lives in fear, conflict, and a state of prepetual suffering. To see the truth that when one suffers, in that seeing manifests its own action of compassion. Where truth is the center ceases, and when the center ceases there is choicless awareness, and when choice ceases, Only then is there joy, beauty, compassion, and love. I appreciate your sharing/communication friend?