Faceless

@Ether Gradual process implies time/thought ‘becoming liberated or not suffering any longer’ this is a movment of the self/thought. This is the biggest problem in liberation/freedom. Yes we can’t comtrol anything. The controller is the controlled. Seeig this truth is makes for a different kind of energy to approach inquiry. To inquire without choice in any direction. If there is no seeing that the thinker is the thought then one can not break down the walls of volition. There has to be freedom from the self/duality/fragmentation. And when there is freedom from the self there can be an orderly inquiry. Otherwise bias/prejudice influence the investigation.

@Ether check into that man. It’s fasinating and I assure you if that is seen and understood liberation is instant. ?? No process. Process implies time. and time in liberation is the enemy ?

Self is thought... any movement of thought is ignorant to truth. Truth liberates not effort Pretty sure Buddha was down for this. From what I see anyway

Where there is Motive, desire, demand, will, aspiration, and so on is a movement of thought. Thought projects an idea and the self pursues it. This is not ‘what is’ truth You see that??

Hope is part of the self. It keeps it in a non acting state

I understand, but desire/demand is very tricky. Self will disguise itself as non self activity. Its perfectly healthy to want order of thinking. But to go into it with a goal prevents. Because a goal implies a projected outcome. Which will never be ‘empty’ if you know what I mean?

Go into it choicelessly. That way there are no illusions and even liberation comes very quick. Not a long process like people think. It’s instant. It’s as simple as insight/action?

Not to crave desire is still desire.. I like to treat it as a general interest into how the mind works. Liberation just seems to be a buy product

@EtherTrue that... I would say the very motive to become enlightened prevents any liberation what’s so ever...There must freedom from knowledge and experience to become free from the self. Because the self, knowledge, experience are thought. And thought is the self. When volition/thought and dependence of knowledge,experience, given continuity by memory ceases to be acted according to the is there is freedom from the old to approach that which is new. Have you gone into this before? Its quite interesting ?

Mechanics of reality ?in which illusion is born

Yeah but how do they ‘be it’ if thought is constantly working against them?? What sees the duality/fragmentation an produces an action of being??

Conditioned relationship of interdependence

Maybe explain to them what you mean by ‘grasp being directly’... What grasps being directly?? What do they use to grasp being directly?

Maybe explore whether there is action that is not within the field of thought? There is the insight as in intuition ‘of thought’ but is there an insight which is not of thought??? We would have to ask ourselves have we really investigated thouroghly enough to come to a conclusion yet. This seems reasonable no???

From the very limited amount that I know about Buddha I would say he was more my type of being as far as sharing on the workings of the mind. I feel like I understand him fairly easy even though I engage mosty by self inquiry. He seemed to go in great depth on motive, will, volition, desire, pleasure, and so on. His sharing seemed to be very practical and applied to daily life of human beings. Although I wouldn’t say I could necessarily learn about myself through him, I feel like the way in which he shared was rather unique from the rest that I have browsed upon he last few months. Only other ancient i seem to really share commonalitys is with Laozi.

For a few minutes ..family keeps me pretty busy lol

I’ll check it out when I get a chance??

Buddha sounded like my kind of dude. ?

This is correct as I have gone through this actually. There must be a freedom from the old/past in order to see things anew. Creativity ‘what is new’ is only found in freedom from the old. I think this is what has made liberation such fast happening in my daily life. I’m not a follower of old text and schalar of any kind but This quote of Osho and Laozi has some relation to this.... “The mind always wants to choose. The mind lives through choice. If you don't choose the mind drops. This is the way of Lao Tzu. How to drop the mind? - don't choose! That's why he never prescribes any meditation, because then there is no need for any meditation.” Rajneesh The mind that chooses according to its conditioning ‘the old or to the content of its past’ prevents that which is new from ever being perceived. The old must be wiped away for the new to come into being. Starting with a clean slate is a necessity.

Either way this must be seen on ones own. Any explanation is conditioned. ‘The word is limited’ This comes about in the action of insight/perception.

Freedom from a before and after. Freedom from action according to time ‘thought/duality’ Complete action from wholeness ‘timeless action’ The realm without measure

Opinion comes from thought/the thinker. Any conditioned response according to thought. A conclusion brought about through malfunction or disorder in thought. This is nothing more than the battle of the opposites. And both of theses responses and reactions are within the field of thought/duality, therefore incomplete/not whole. Disorder. @Shanmugamhas recently shared some Osho with me and I found this quote which seems to relate. The part about choosing... “The mind always wants to choose. The mind lives through choice. If you don't choose the mind drops. This is the way of Lao Tzu. How to drop the mind? - don't choose! That's why he never prescribes any meditation, because then there is no need for any meditation.” Rajneesh Where there is duality/fragmentation there can never be ‘true good’ But as it is generally accepted in society, the good and bad are merely reactions of disorder of thought. Any reaction to disorderly thought perpetuates further disorderly thought, therefore this is bad. Lol GOOD’ is only when ‘the bad’ malfunction/disorder ‘conditioned mind’ is not. Goodness is not born of that which is bad. Goodness is not the opposite of bad. They are totaly seperate. Where there is Bad Good is not.

??To wholeness

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