Faceless

Walk without motive. This is meditation

Yes.. If someone 'thinks' they are in the highest, they are wrong... But there is no need to think you are in the highest... Non-duality is not about reaching a 'highest' state; reaching a 'highest state' is a part of the regular rat race. So when someone thinks he has reached the highest state, he is definitely wrong. A highest state implies a journey between A and B... But sahaja or enlightenment is when you realize that A and B are the same, that there is no journey at all! Seems reasonable that only an ego/self wants to move to higher state. When i had this univinted freedom from self i actully felt as if I dropped to a lower state. Perhaps the lowest state possible. Very strange but that is the first feeling I had. It seemed as if any higher state was always moving into falseness, illusion, and deception. But I do see that this feeling of a lower/lowest state was actully the result of absnesce of measure. If I told someone I’m in the lowest state possible they wouldn’t understand why i now enjoy life so much and why I am problem free. Psychologically of course ?

No problem friend. I don’t meditate in the sense of daily routines and such. To me meditation is just giving total attention to somthing without any movement of control. This combined with a good general understanding of thought in relation to your personal experience makes for a great learning experience. Although I learned more from just observing myself objectively and without bias I have learned a little from the internet to. If you are a reader thats even better. I’m not much of a reader when it comes to conciousness, but I have learned a few cool things from a few good sources. So there are a variety of different perspectives on thought. But i would just start on typing in nature, structure, and processes of thought as a search on internet. Let me know if you don’t find anything that catches your attention. But If you type that in and investigate I guarantee you will find some good stuff on thought. Maybe you will point me in a direction to something new as well.

You got to remember the very demand to be free of thought is thought. Its very complex and subtle. This is why it’s important to understand that. But just enjoy this stuff because it’s interesting. ? That way it’s not a chore and a movement leading to a result, but instead an enjoyable experience?

Yeah but you will find that the compulsion is very very strong to control thought.

I would start by learning about thought in general if you haven’t already. The nature of thought and it’s relstioship to the self. As far as meditation is concerned, explore the difference between concentration ‘excluding certain thoughts and focusing on one to quite others’ And attention ‘not attempting to focus on one thought to drive out others but just to watch the entire movement as a whole.’ Now I know this may sound hard but that’s because it’s a mechanical habitual programmed response to use concentration to solve various types of challenges. I believe puting the time in and understanding the limits of thought helps one move in a more intelligent approach to not only quieting our own thoughts, but also living life in a more orderly fashion. I learned about thought after I had a unexpected realization that the self/ego was a manifestation of thought. I all of a sudden just became free of any motive to attain/achieve and specific goal or desire. I think this helped me inquire and learn openly without being influenced by volition to attain a certain state of being.

All psychological conflict gives continuity to ego/self. Self is born from the desire ‘will/volition’ to overcome various challenges/conflicts.

Yeah...Even pulling away and focusing on breath is a movement of thought/volition. I believe this whole problem is the result of motive, will, and the effort to attain this ‘achievement’ to become free from thought. Those types of meditation will only strengthen the self and the movement of thought. This is prepetuates reaction and response to thought. Your trying to use thought to suppress thought. That is an impossibility. It may suppress and lessen but will never become totally empty by such means.

Immoral action is the result of thought. So to learn/understand this fact and implimient that into education is a step towards moral action. Is it immoral for a bear to kill a salmon to survive? I would say no. Is it immoral for a bear to mall a man that accidentally walks up on its cubs? No agian Is it immoral for man to defend his child from being attacked and killed and do what ever is required to prevent the child from being harmed? I would say no Is it immoral to devise a plan to destroy an entire city on behalf of the morals that have been conditioned through tradition like politics, religious preference and so on..being responses to the stream of thought? You bet Immorality is the result of incoherent thought. This must be seen for the fact that it is. Not rationalized in accordance to ones own bias and prejudices.

Perhaps perception ‘action of intelligence not determine by thought’ is it’s own action that enables the action of letting go. This perception is maybe a whole movment. Like an instinct of sorts. Only the conditioned mind ‘thought’ usually creates a type of congestion in ones conciousness that prevents this perception from ever acting. When this conditioned thought ceases maybe there is space for this whole perception to act. Seems like the mind is cluttered with the movement of thinking. Does the conditioned response of thought interfere with this intelligent response of complete action and perception that is whole?

Can The Who ever let go

English is fine ? better than my English and that’s the only language I know

In order to embody the action of non duality experience determined by the ‘knower’ which is the ‘known’ perception through the movement of duality itself would have to cease. Good question might be, unless this happens can there be this non duality or harmony with the whole/infinite?

Idk i am just bringing to light the nature of an experience. Could be that using words to explain something inevitably presents itself as an experience. When I hear that one experiences the absolute truth or god I instantly get a red flag alert but I also take into accord the limits of language ‘thought’ when trying to explain that which is beyond those very limits. When I hear the statement ‘I have had direct experience of the absolute’ i usually look at other statements in connection with that statement. Example if one tries to create a formula that claims to have come up with some kind of formulation to achieve that direct experience and so on. I do personally go through very quiet states of mind/thought. Where I feel as if there is no center in which is perceiving but I wouldn’t call it an experience. Because there seems to be no thing observing. It’s like nobody’s home. But this could just be the result of the mind quieting down and seeming like it is gone or not active. But I could be wrong and It could just simply be a thought projected experience. Never the less I think it’s good to understand that all experience is never new, and is determined by our memory, knowledge, or the stream of thought. This way we can somewhat navigate through various road blocks like illusion and deception. Because when it comes to relationship with the environment, ourselves, others, it’s important to see that the way we interpret our reality can influence those relationships dramatically in one way or another. Perhaps positively but also even negatively.

Those are good questions. When you go into direct experience very carefully it doesn’t seem so direct. Experience is a movement of thought which implies that it cannot be direct at all. In the sense that we see everything the the limited conditioned lense of thought. That kind of perception is action according to thought which is limited/incomplete action. Question is is there an action that is direct, instant, complete, whole, without the movement of thought.

Well then it would then cease to be a paradise

God likes to party??‍♂️

I would say that knowledge is finite and can never lead to anything but more knowledge. Thought in its very nature creates this disharmony and prevents union with the absolute. But then we try and use thought to find our way in that direction. Both the motive and the knowledge ‘movements of volition’ are all part of the stream of thought.

I like to think of my self inquiry as watching without a motive. Not moving in any particular direction as means to alter what is actually going on. When I say meditation being ‘concentrated thought’ I mean premeditated meditation, which is an act of volition and can not lead to emptiness.

I do like mediation being a martial artist. But it has nothing to do with the absolute.

I have just recently been introduced to Krishnamurti by @Shanmugam and I do in most cases agree with what he says from my own personal experience. Most this stuff I realized on my own without use of knowledge. And I am very careful with what I take in. I like both Krishnamurtis as far as there explaining is concerned. But I wouldn’t say I am a follower of them. I haven’t even read any of there books or ‘any’ books in that case. I am a constant observer of myself and that’s where I learn about this stuff. Through self inquiry/self observation. The observer is the observed is a fact. No matter if Krishnamurti said that or not it’s still a true never the less. I saw this without the help of anyone else. To me it just happened.

I wouldn’t even ask that question. That very question is in itself a movement in the other direction. ? i know it’s interesting to discuss though. Carry on friends??

Is your identity dissolved? Unless it is, it’s an assumption that it is possible. Movements of meditation which is concentrated thought that excludes other aspects of thought/the center is a movement of time. The ego can not be dissolved by such a finite movement. The meditatior is the meditated. This is a very simple fact that most don’t like to admit.

Meditation practices are finite approaches to capture the infinite. These practices are designed to serve the ego and it’s function. Any movements of the center what so ever are always moving in the other direction away from the absolute. So to say meditation practices and experience must be acquired to grasp the absolute is a joke. Its obvious that any direction of thought ‘time’ can never lead to the timeless ‘truth’ Hilarious though?

Not dreaming is an indication of the immeasurable or nothingness. If there is wholeness and embodiment in ones daily life then dreaming can cease all together. This is the closest you will ever get to nothingness or that which is beyond words. Or that which can never be spoken of. Sleep for one with such a quiet mind Implies true and total harmony with THE HAPPENING Its really quite sacred