Faceless

@abrakamowse i have never read a book and I am thankful for that?. I like to figure this stuff out for myself. Without influince.

No the desire to become psychologically secure prepetualtes psychological insecurity. Physically secure is an intelligent intelligent response. Need to eat, shelter, and so on. The problem is we seek psychological which effects us psychologically and physically in negative ways. Although I’m not sure that’s what u were asking?

To embody that we are the whole without being influenced by past knowledge is quite a thing. To go the distance without ever reading books and learning from another is something sacred. I personally did not invite any of this. It was an accident or uninvited. I have been inquiring mostly out of interest of what happened. It’s been a beautiful ride I must say. To be headless is an art and comes as the result of being free from the desire to be free. Not to indulge in the prepetual conflict of psychological time is to be liberated and explore/obseve without motive, demand, effort, volition. To be free of choice.

Yeah the ego.. ‘every point of a sphere can be considered the center. That point on the Sphere has its own specific point of reference. I see that we are the whole looking at itself to. I just would not present that to one who is doing self inquiry. Just don’t want to promote and introduce thought induced projections to the person I am sharing with. I think people should see that for themselves. Allan watts is the man ? Great communicator. Although I never learned much from others I would say that listening/reading Allan watts is a great way to enter into understand different points of view.

Its easy to say you are the whole if you read that somewhere and it is second hand knowledge. But to people that don’t understand thinking they wouldn’t even question that they could possibly be deceiving themselves. Whether one sees them selves as the whole depends on what perceptions they have had. Which they can only have when the movement of thought has quieted down to the point that perception/insight ‘intelligence’ can manifest. If thought is in operation ‘the perceiver’ or ‘the known’ then the knower will inevitably see through it’s conditioned accumulated content of memory/knowledge and there will be no space for perception/insight to occur. Now when you read these posts I advise people to investigate themselves as in investigate themselves in relation to learning the nature of thought/thinking. For me to tell them ‘you are it’ would be telling them to believe the ‘idea’ that the are the whole. But to embody and live that actually demands that it’s not seen as an idea but as a fact. It’s easy to say your the whole, but to one who doesn’t embody that it’s merely another myth or conceptualization and product of thought. Thought is very tricky and unless you don’t understand its movement you can not navigate the illusions and deception. I am just presenting people with a way to go into this themselves without adding to the content of the minds. It is not somthing I would ever impose on another that they are truth, because unless they live as truth they are not. That is somthing they should come to on there own. I am trying to show how not being influenced by all this non duality knowledge and just learning the nature of thinking ‘duality’ will help one go beyond the common barriers of never embodying the beauty of a centerless exsistence. After all you can not know non duality, but you can know duality. It’s easy to see where one is in there comments and statments. The extent that they quote non duality and promote seeking ‘psychological time’...Saying they are god and then by those very comments and recommendations of seeking experience, and higher levels of consciousness implies that there has not been embodiment at all. We can say all the non dual ‘jive’ we want but it’s easy to tell when one sees it as an idea and one who actully lives it with there whole being. To live it is truth. In that case you don’t know truth you are truth. The action of truth is expressed in being. I see that all this knowledge ‘answers passed down through time’ creates the very demand for questions. Psychologically I have no questions/problems whatsoever ever. I am free from questions as I don’t depend on them to maintain psychological security. Again I only point people in the direction so that they can avoid common illusions. I don’t presume to add to there beliefs. Saying to someone you are it means absolutely nothing to one who hasn’t even seen the simple fact that any experience they have is the result of memory, knowledge. ‘The known’ or ‘the past’ Do you see?? I am not going to add shit to people’s minds that they have to believe. If they can’t troubleshoot there own thought movements then they will never embody any of this. They will be full of knowledge of about wholeness but will never express it in action in there daily lives. And they will never live life free of illusions and will be stuck in the prepetual movement of psychological time... That is the difference between an intellectual and one who is holy. The intellectual ‘knows’ truth through the veil of thought ‘memory, knowledge and experience’ ...The holy man/woman is truth in action Do you see the difference?? How they live there life expresses itself very clearly. I am well aware that harmony already exsistence and that we are the whole happening ? To live life free of a center is truth in action. Do you intelliectualize about it? Or do you embody this actully?

A very intellectual charchter. Don’t watch TV. Is that a good show/movie?

@Truth Yes I understand? Although Im speaking of choosing to maintain psychological security. Choice as in choosing between propositions to bring about a sense of mental order. Inwardly choice ‘thought’ has no place. After all it’s safe to say that the evolution of thought most likely was the result of fear and the compulsion to evade confusion. So we can respond skillfully to our environment and the various dangers associated with that environment. But yes as far as physical security the ability to choose is a beneficial function. Outwardly the ability to choose is practical and essential.

@Charlotte

Ah I think I see Thank you fellow ninja??

@Charlotte There’s knowone to kill lol lay it on me?

What’s that???

Ninja?? Although learning the nature of thought and it’s limits is not really a practice. It’s learning/understanding thought as a system. Once this system is understood very deeply there will be no need for any practices, routines, techniques, and methods and there mechanical applications. ? anyway how how do you get that little ninja emoji???? That’s the real important question lol

Knowledge ‘knowing’ and experience is a part of the whole, or born of the whole ‘the infinite’ A Part or fragment of the whole ‘thought’ cannot grasp the totality of the whole. There would have to be complete knowledge of everything or the whole to capture that. And that is an impossibility. Thought is finite. The whole is infinite. It’s assumed that absolute truth can be known, captured by thought ‘a perceiver’ Thought is fragmented and never whole. The perceiver being a fragment of thought divides thought even more as thought is in movement. Thought narrows down and is specialized in its nature. It seperates/excludes other parts and focuses on particular parts. Specializations in different fields of thought are examples of that. We have to remember thought being fragmented creates the thinker and anything that the thinker concludes leads to further fragmentation and continues to multiply itself and becomes more and more narrow and partial. Although some may not know what I’m talking about, this post is more an attempt to point one in the direction to investigate themselves. To understand our own limitations of thinking makes for a better application thought all together, and gives one a capacity to put thought in its right place. After all puting things in there right place is an art. Then we can use thought skillfully and avoid/prevent distortion and thought can function with order. @abrakamowse after you learn about these limits then you can proceed and ask the question of is there a way to be in harmony with that which is whole. After learning these limits your approach will be less likely to fall into illusion and deception. You will know if you have hit a road block and will won’t persist in the wrong direction for decades and decades without actually ever embodying this action of wholeness. You will be fine if you are careful friend?

Cheers?

Of course ?

It’s the only way friend. There is no path already paved for you to follow that leads to enlightenment. If you really want to be technical it’s pathless. It’s simple. Perhaps to simple which makes it difficult. Start with understanding yourself. Dont accept anybodys authority. Not ANYBODY Go it all alone. And If your compelled to learn from another be very careful. Pay attention to there demeanor and conduct as well as what they have to say. You will know when one is genuine or not if your pay attention. You will be fine. Just chill/observe?

Self-Improvement VS Self-Destruction??? Both a movement of desire, will, demand, volition. Both movements of the ego/self. Both movements of measure, therefore limited, finite and time bound. Seeking pleasure implies seeking suffering either way. As far as choice is concerned... In the realm of the timeless one doesn’t choose. There is no freedom in choice. Choosing implies action according to the limited, fragmented, and finite nature of thinking. If thought is applied as means to accomplish, attain, and decide between opposing interests, this means fear/confusion is in movement. All action according to thought leads to contradiction, conflict, and perpetual suffering. Choice is a symptom of duality. An indication that one is still bound and limited by thought, choosing between one thing and anohter. To see that opposites actually imply one another and that you can’t have one without the other is essential in not being bound by thought/self to choose one extreme in opposition to one anohter. This fundamental understanding paves the way for action which is whole and infinite. Simple and beautiful even with all its associations and entanglements. To accept the whole without attempting to exclude certain parts is acceptance to what is. Besides that’s all we can do anyway right?

I would question this. Once you figure out your current investigation. ? Are you consciously aware and have a direct experience of the present? Or is the present experience determined by your memory? Pretty interesting to explore At least I think so?

@Joseph Maynor ? Yeah Plus the experience at that time was approached partially as far as the limits of what we can be aware of at any given moment. Our capacity to direct attention on more than a few things at a time and all. And also the experience being influenced by ‘what we already know’ was influenced by our biases which also makes for a rather limited and partial perception. This a distortion in action. To top it off when we recollect through memory what happened in the past there is the clinging to our biases in order of bring about a psychological sense of security. So the memory becomes distorted even more to tend to what makes us feel better psychologically. Thought ‘memory, knowledge, experience’ is selective. And the ego being a product of thought chooses to believe what ever maintains its own validity/permanence.

Starting to understanding thought is the beginning of starting to understand yourself. ‘The self/ego’ Only in understanding the limits of thought/self does intelligence start to flower. This opens the possibility for thought to become quiet so that intelligence can act holistically without contradiction/conflict. This is where wisdom is born.

Manipulating thought with thought is the movement of thought. The manipulator is the manitpulated lol Thought implies manipulation It’s great that your getting into this. It’s essential?

@mohdanas I understand. I went through such a relationship as well. Still do. I have always been very simple and am not ambitious. I see the whole of things maybe a little to well. Lol.... I see that ambition leads to a never ending prepetual striving/conflict and becomes a mechanical ‘habitual’ movment that leads to attatchment and is form of addiction. I have always been one to appreciate the simple but important things, like breathing, perceiving the sites, and breathing in the morning air. As far as your current situation. When you say ‘ I was pretty much satisfied and fulfilled before she left you’ I question respectively? Asking yourself questions like was I fulfilled, and contempt? Was I seeking security in the relationship? Being did I seek security in the way she made me feel about myself? Did I form images about myself that she helped validate that made me feel good about myself?..And am I sad/depressed because now I feel like a part of me ‘the part that made me feel special, important, validated etc’ has been taken away from me and now I feel less important and am questioning my very exsistence as a interesting, respectable, ‘successful individual’?? Does this self judging make me feel insecure? So are all my thoughts attempts to gain a sense of security???? Go through these types of questions honestly. It might show your your true motive. Remeber thought is always driven by a motive. Thought seeks security in its own bias/prejudices. Thought will convince you it has put together rational and reasonable means to take a certain action. In your case this action according to your thoughts is to call her up to justify your own intentions/rationalizations to become psychologically secure. Am I right?? If you are seeking security in thought then there will be no security. This is a fact. Seeking leads to conflict. Wishing for what you want to be ‘secure’ which is an idea leads to conflict. Accepting what is the fact ‘insecurity’ without escaping to illusions to self affirm and self sooth the psyche prevents that conflict between ‘what is and what you want’ from perpetuating. Thought by its very nature and function is applied as a defense mechanism. It will do what ever it can to maintain ego permanence and preserve its own movement and validation. To me it seems as if your are caught in illusion because you are telling yourself you just want to express yourself so she understands you, but it seems you are trying to maintain psychological security in carrying out what your thoughts have concluded as a valid/acceptable reason for action. This is the nature of an illusion. Seeking psychological security by believing something thought has formulated to provide yourself with a comfortable self image. Either non acceptance or rationalizing our thoughts according to the compulsion to be psychologically secure leads for irrational, non logical, unreasonable, and a disorderly quality of thinking. Again I have gone through this before friend. And I did call her up and try and justify/rationalize my own actions. This was a complete mistake. But I did learn from it lol. I was very young ? I would question your own motives and intentions because that is a setup for further regret. Don’t hold on to the past. U can not meet the present if the past is preventing the present from being perceived and experienced. Just something for you to think about. ?

No biggie? You will get it It will just come to you

? ??

If we all roasted ourselves there wouldn’t be the desire another namsayn?