Carl-Richard

Natural laws don't exist (or they're not a "fact"). Natural laws rely on induction, which is a flawed process. Today's scientists are critical rationalists, not logical positivists: they try to test, critique and falsify their claims, not verify or justify them. You can't arrive at a natural law through falsification, because falsification is not about arriving at a final answer (e.g. "causality is a natural law"). It's about critiquing statements and eliminating the false ones. This is where some scientists get their humility from: "we're not saying we know anything for sure. We're just trying disprove our own theories."

Causality isn't even a thing. Natural laws don't exist.

When you look at human history and the advent of different SD stages on a collective level, there seems to be a technological component that ignites the transition between the stages. I've found some examples that I think are useful, but I'll need help with some of the stages, especially the later ones (blue and up). Technology, as it is expressed in society, are collective external tools that serve to increase the effectiveness of the utilization of resources (both external and internal) and are an extension of the collective mind (Wilber: collective mind - "we"; technology - "its"). As minds evolve, technology evolves and utilization of resources evolves (and minds require resources). This creates a positive feedback loop (growth causing more growth). Each new technology provides its own contribution to this feedback loop. This is what creates the exponential growth of the human population, cultural sophistication and technology itself. The level of complexity of the technology available and the minds who made it is connected, hence it's relevant to the historical origin of value systems. So which kinds of technology are associated with the transitional phases of each SD stage? Some of it will hopefully be answered here. The start and end dates (e.g. "300-150 years ago") signify the period of time between the early phases of each stage (e.g. early-Orange to early-Green). A common feature of each technology is that it helps "maxing out" the previous stage: Beige to Purple (125 000 - 50 000 years ago) – The controlled use of fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Contribution: increased access to nutrients (maxing out primal survival, freeing up the mind's capacities to create myths, culture, ritual and more sophisticated survival strategies that get passed down from generation to generation). Purple to Red (50 000 - 10 000 years ago) – Agriculture (the plow and farm animals): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture Contribution: the plow, plant crops and farm animals (both as food and labor) act as a lever on the food supply, effectively freeing up labor, lending it to territorial expansion and tribal warfare; the rise of male power-Gods and imperialism, decline of female, animal and naturalistic tribal Gods, the origin of various dichotomies like the man against nature, man over animals, man over women etc. Red to Blue (10 000 - 5 000 years ago) – Urban architecture (Temples, churches, political infrastructure), the wheel: As sedentary settlements grew in size, the need for social cohesion and order also grew. Contribution: External expression of order and transcendent purpose (religion, law). If you want to unite large populations under a common value system, you need to do it through proportional physical means. Blue to Orange (5000 - 300 years ago) – The printing press (?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press Contribution: maxes out transcendent purpose (nationalism), increases societal information flow, education and democratization of religion and written knowledge. The monopoly on holy texts and scientific knowledge fell out of the hands of the Church. Martin Luther capitalized on this and initiated the Reformation which lead to the spread of Protestantism and the protestant work ethic, a pre-cursor to capitalism. Orange to Green (300-150 years ago) – The Industrial Revolution, birth control, commercial air travel (?): Contribution: - women's rights (fight for workplace equality and reproductive control) and worker rights. The tractor allows women to do previously male-dominated jobs that require upper-body strength (e.g. plowing the fields). - environmental awareness (depletion of natural resources, increased pollution, damage to ecosystems). - global connectivity (multiculturalism, pluralism, diversity). Green to Yellow (150 - 50 years ago) – The Internet (?): Contribution: Increased global information flow. Like I said, I need some help adding more examples. Appreciate any ideas

Nice! Good for a developing empire.

Then the elephant uses cognition (thought) to form the concept (duality) of "self and other". But that doesn't mean direct experience isn't non-dual. Cognition and conceptualization happens at various levels (not just human thought). Humans are just particularly good at it so we forget the oneness of direct experience. This model gives a nice overview over the range of complexity of cognition/conceptualization/behavior:

Nooo keep going please! I initially tried to somewhat make a distinction between technology (as in singular technological gadgets like the plow) and social systems (while excluding examples of the latter), but that seems futile. After all, what is technology without people? For example, agriculture is what happens when a group of people utilize a collection of gadgets (e.g. the plow) and techniques/behaviors (plowing the field, planting, harvesting), a.k.a systems of behavior in a society, a.k.a social systems. They're both in the same quadrant for a reason

The conceptualization of form (or void) is dualistic. This is called relative truth. The direct experience of form is non-dual, just like the direct experience of void is non-dual, because they're both direct experience, both One. This is called Absolute Truth. The direct experience of "a create eating food" is one process, not two. There is really no such thing as "a creature eating food" in direct experience. There is just direct experience. If you want to invoke concepts like cognition or sensory experience, then that is also in the relative realm, not direct experience.

@Fearless_Bum

"Nonverbal animals" "trees" "grow" "sunlight" "organism" is language.

Yeah. Seems like Green/Yellow technology has a lot to do with increased information flow or global connectivity. I think Wilber agrees :

@Loba It's about maintaining the continuity of the format of the thread, which is about having easy access to many examples. Share links, videos, images or quotes. For example, if you're recommending a book, don't paste all the 300 pages in here. Drop a link and maybe a quote – make it easy for people to access.

@Loba Jesus Christ don't do that again. A link will suffice.

It's like a hippie collective. If you ask someone to take out the trash, there's a chance they'll just stand and marvel at it. But yeah, I think we should stop derailing the topic

There is no debate.

@cetus Nice bag.

Let me clarify: I used to think it was a guy wearing a black hoodie with his hands in his pockets In cognitive psychology, this is called "the context effect", which is a type of top-down processing in visual perception (perception relies on information from past perceptions). We expect to see a person because it's a profile picture.

I thought it was a guy wearing a black hoodie with his hands in his pockets

There is a middle ground where people may not have experienced 5-MeO-DMT but have had other non-dual experiences where pointers like "Love" or "Infinity" or "God" are already compatible in their own way or at least make intuitive sense. Many non-dual teachers use these terms anyway.

What exactly does "making the choice ourselves" mean in this context?

Buy some undergrad education material. I read this one back when I studied biology: https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Second-Carl-T-Bergstrom/dp/0393601048

You can do both at the same time.

That's funny. I just did that an hour ago