Carl-Richard

I'm dying.

@Danioover9000 When I'm talking about holding contradictory values, I'm talking about things like believing in equal opportunities for men and women but also believing that only men are allowed to be polygamous, or holding both anti-racist and white supremacist views, or believing in democracy but supporting fascists.

6. A community, family or friends that supports and encourages your decision, whether it's carrot or stick. My mom gave me an ultimatum (quit or move out), and my online spiritual community was suddenly heavily anti-drugs. I managed to quit despite all my friends smoking regularly.

You need to untangle that statement. Way too many conditions in there.

My values are inconsistent with Nick's, and yours might be. That is the argument.

I don't particularly care what Nick wants you to think he is. I mostly care about what his actions say about him. The fact that he even has to spend a millisecond to deny that he wants to genocide the Jews is already too much. But sure, ride that high-consciousness Nazi train. See if you can turn Nick on to meditation and that his next rally be at the SAND conference alongside Rupert Spira etc. ?

Bro, me choosing to stop meditating has nothing to do with how logically sound my conceptual argumentation is. I'm refusing to entertain nazism because I have a set of values which deeply conflict with those of nazism, thus entertaining them would lead to an internal contradiction. The internal contradiction is determinable by logic, but adopting that specific set of values is not. I just don't see any scenario where killing Jews for the crime of being Jewish would be in alignment with my values. If you call that closemindedness, well, good luck with your internally inconsistent value system.

Sure. I just believe I'm dying, usually at several points during the day, where my mind becomes totally silent, my movements become automatic, everything in my visual field becomes in focus, and time disappears. I love it and I fear it. I spent the last of my meditation days like that: just barely submerging myself in a no-mind/no-body state and then quickly out again... until I could no longer get out. It's also funny that I feel like you're trying to make me feel ashamed that I don't want to die, because I know when I actually get into that state, there is no one to be ashamed. Like, why should I try to get rid of the shame when the end result of that means there is no one to be ashamed in the first place? I won't get to have the experience of getting rid of the shame. "I'll show you". Who "I"? Show who?

Firstly, spiritual truth is not conceptual truth, so me fearing the former does not mean I fear the latter. Secondly, there is no way to determine which value system is the best one. It depends on bias and survival. There is no "truth" to be found there. When I say nazis have fucked up values, I say that because my values are very different. What I'm really doing here is probing for an internal inconsistency in your values, as you seem conflicted about these two very different value systems.

I think this is a rather irrelevant ad hominem. The intellect runs on logic and bias. None of them have to do with Absolute Truth. That is why mystics steer away from the intellect. Me being consistent with my own values is a question of logic and bias. I'm honest about fearing death and egolessness because I know what it is. I've experienced it every day for over 2 years. Are you?

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/nick-fuentes Is this also a smear? How do you know Nick Fuentes? Do you truly know who his? Are you trusting him on his word? Can you even do that?

No because I care about my values. "Woah guys, this dude is afraid of death and eternal egolessness! Wow, what a dishonest guy!"

Does he actually want to genocide the Jews? If I'm supposed to know that by judging his sincere words, then I don't know that, and again, that's by design, but I know that there is nobody with the same level of political influence as Nick Fuentes who is more likely to genocide the Jews than Nick Fuentes.

If somebody merely flirts with nazi rhetoric, especially when they've EXPLICITLY stated that they will not reveal their most radical views, then that is more than enough for me to discard them. If you don't, then you should probably answer why, because that tells you more about you than about me. What; a huge New-Age lib like me is concerned about somebody being a potential nazi? Wow! — who would've guessed? But a guy who frequents the same community who isn't? Well yeah, that's more interesting.

Sounds = taking the red flags which is him flirting with aspects of nazi rhetoric and inferring that he might be an actual nazi, and then deciding to not entertain his views. Smells = taking the red flags as they are, and then deciding to not entertain his views. Am I close-minded about being against killing Jews for being Jews? Yes. I don't think you'll convince me on that one. Are you open-minded about nuking the entire planet right now? I think Nick is 10 years younger than Destiny and that there is a good chance he'll be somebody else by that time. Destiny used to be pretty conservative. But again; being smart, articulate, charismatic does not grant you good values. Super-smart people experience just as much child indoctrination, self-bias and trauma as we do. I mean for fuck's sake, Chris Langan has 200 IQ and gets into email fights about who has the biggest conceptual dick.

Back to my first comment in this thread: if you're openminded towards nazism, that says something about your values. They would think your values are fucked. You can be smart, articulate, and charismatic and still have fucked up values. This is what Hitler was. This is what Nick Fuentes is. This is what Andrew Tate is. ...and yes, of course whether some values are fucked or not is relative to who says it. However, a bigger problem is if you're holding contradictory values. For instance, if somebody like Destiny is really compelling to you, but someone like Nick is also really compelling (two intellectually rigorous individuals who seem to hold internally consistent value systems which contradict each other), you're probably holding contradictory values.

You're asking me for a picture of a camouflaged animal when I'm saying you should use your ears, or in fact that you should've smelled it already. If somebody is merely flirting with aspects of nazi rhetoric, that is all you need to know.

The frame of "show me direct quotes where he explicitly states his position" I don't think is important here. What is important is whether it's reasonable to entertain his views or not, and that involves these red flags (with swastikas on them): he has explicitly stated that he deliberately hides his true views, has made claims that denies aspects of the historical legitimacy of the holocaust, has endorsed violent solutions against those with power (who he believes to be Jews); which is, if not itself a reason to not entertain his views, an indication that he might be an actual nazi who wants to kill Jews, and if so certainly a good reason to not entertain his views.

I think leading a political movement which rhetoric includes killing Jews is bad.

@Raptorsin7 Tell me what "Zionist world order" means and I'll tell you what "all Jews" means.

Again, how many Jews are we talking about? If that is not explicitly stated, then we're back to the ambiguity game.

If the amount of jews is not clearly stated, that is a problem. Is your idea of evidence him saying his true views explicitly? Do you not see the problem with that given what I've just said? He thrives on ambiguity. Here is an idea: if there is even a slight indication that somebody might want to kill just any amount of Jews, should that not be enough to completely disregard them?

How many Jews is that exactly?

When you think that Jews rule the world and you say "who runs the media? Globalists. Time to kill the globalists" or "what can you and I do to a state legislator—besides kill them?", or when your rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of a nazi (white supremacy, holocaust denial, antisemitism etc.) and you've stated explicitly that you're deliberately hiding your true views, and that you're constantly seen hiding behind irony and jokes, it sort of says itself.

The fact that you actually don't know that is the problem.