Carl-Richard

That's ok. It just made things a bit unclear. I would be vary about entertaining ideas about solipsism before understanding love. It's a loaded word, which is why Leo reeled back on teaching it. The mind is easily confused. Let the experience of unconditional love be the guiding light for your awakening.

Yes! I don't think I said that.

Do you love other people as yourself?

Clip?

That sounds like Orange

I just found the most perfect example of this: Rupert Spira is a Western mystic and Bernardo Kastrup is a Western philosopher, and they arrived at the same conclusions (e.g. materialism is baloney) through different means.

This is like the political version of the trolley problem

I'm talking about modern day mystics or philosophers who're significantly touched by modern Westernization and have developed past scientific materialism (i.e. Sadhguru). Like I said earlier, mysticism is in the West softly correlated with higher development, but other than that, it should be treated as its own domain. Mystics have existed all throughout history irrespective of cognitive complexity. It's not so much the mysticism itself as the escape from scientific materialism (deconstructing one's worldview) that is indicative of higher development.

I don't think "nerdy" is a good construct. I would say they're more cognitively complex (certainly Sadhguru, but I'm not so familiar with Osho). Elon Musk probably has high quantitative intelligence, so he can do many calculations very fast, but the quality of his mind is much simpler. He is an engineer, not a mystic or philosopher.

You can ask him. He had to, because he wasn't presenting SD but some bastardized interpretation of it. What are you basing this on?

We know exactly what is going on. Hedonism has been known to be a dead end since the dawn of time. It's what every religion has tried to teach us: not pleasure but meaning, not the profane but the sacred.

Expressing them instead of repressing them. The explanation is in the quote.

Work on externalizing your emotions. People who favor an internalizing emotional style are more to prone to anxiety disorders.

?!

That just sounds like a lobotomy. Turquoise is more sophisticated and complex than Yellow on all levels: intellectually, interpersonally, occupationally etc. Whatever principle you're espousing to come to your conclusions doesn't seem to follow the developmental assumptions of firstly just all of structural stage theory in general, but secondly also the specifics of SD(i) as stated by Beck & Cowan (and Wilber): developmental psychology describes the movement from lower to higher levels of complexity, understanding and problem-solving ability, and SD(i) does not marry mysticism with Turquoise (this is in fact what Don Beck himself criticized Leo for mistakenly assuming, which is why you can't find that video on YouTube anymore and why Leo changed his stance).

Sadhguru and Osho are mystics, so yes, that is what I meant by the previous question. The way I see it is that "mysticism" (i.e. having a significant propensity towards the "being" aspect of reality) shouldn't be treated as something that is inherent to a particular developmental stage (at least in the case of SD), but instead either as its own developmental domain ("line" in SDi terms) or something that is only softly correlated with higher development. To elaborate on that last point: if we go by modern Western society, mysticism tends to become more common at Green and up, but again, it's only a soft correlation and not an obligatory step, even for Turquoise. Breaking out of the mono-perspectival mold of scientific materialism (Orange) requires investigating many different perspectives, which by just sheer statistics increases the likelihood of discovering mysticism (of course cognitive flexibility also helps with that process), but still again, it's not a fully stage-dependent trait according to SD. So how do I define Turquoise then if not "Yellow + mysticism"? I struggled with this question for a while, but Nahm put it in a way that makes sense (paraphrasing with slight modification): "Turquoise is when you take the lessons of Yellow and properly share it with the world." In other words, the lessons of holism, the systems view and unconditional care is properly integrated into your individuality, and then your next job is to integrate this into the collective (as Turquoise is a collectivist stage). In this sense, Sadhguru is certainly Turquoise. Just look at his global-scale influence of deeply holistic approaches to environmental issues. His new Save Soil project is the pinnacle of Turquoise systems thinking: prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system and distributing this knowledge across several social channels; changing public opinion through mass-scale media appearances on podcasts like Joe Rogan and TV morning shows; changing policy through talks at the UN and various government meetings etc. What the guys at Game B are doing through blog posts, Sadhguru is doing through wide-scale systemic influence, exactly because he has had over 30 years to integrate it and manifest it in the real world. Btw, when I say "prioritizing and understanding the complex interconnections of the Earth-Humanity system", it's a fully articulated systems understanding (like Game B or Fritjof Capra) and not simply an intuitive, heart-based understanding of say Green or Purple. It's more sophisticated than run-of-the-mill environmentalism (e.g. Leonardo DiCaprio or Greta Thunberg). You truly get this while listening to his Joe Rogan appearance.

What distinguishes Turquoise from Yellow?

Do you think Turquoise = mysticism?

No posting while high or drunk: https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/

Nahm was first demoted for not caving to Leo's linguistic demands, then after a while, he got banned for recruiting.

I wouldn't use those words. Some of our mods were recruited by Nahm via the PM system, and they accepted the invitation to become a mod over there, which Leo interpreted as a break of trust, so they got banned. However, Leo will ban anyone who makes an account over there.

@SQAAD Many people do psychedelics and very few discover non-duality. This is just the reality.

I don't know. I never really think about stages when I meet people, like "yeahhh this guy is definitely orange." I think most people are cool when you get to know them, unless of course they're like severely emotionally damaged or something.

Bruh he is obviously not joking in those clips. But yeah, he is a comedian.