Carl-Richard

An autocrat ruled by democratic impulses?

Fast forward to the point: if you want to allow the people some freedoms, you would let them have a say, because freedom is about what people want, hence it's no longer autocratic.

Answer the question lol. Does your autocratic state allow people some freedoms that are potentially harmful?

Should people be allowed to do addictive drugs?

You're looking for an edge. Do you see the infinite regression?

The issue is that people think Turquoise specifically is only about mysticism, which is not true. But this doesn't mean that Ken Wilber can't create a Tier 3 where mysticism is more central.

I didn't say they were.

Then that goes back to the previous point. The collective manifestation of Purple, untouched by any higher stages, is a tribal society. The 8th-11th century was an era of feudal kings and empires; Red. If you were a farmer at that time, you were living inside a kingdom.

No modern medicine, sanitation, electricity etc. I'm not sure if pre-agricultural societies (i.e. Purple tribes) had even lower life expectancy on average than say Red feudal empires.

Those low averages only happen when you account for infant and child deaths. People usually lived to 40-50 in pre-modern societies.

The knowledge of the shaman did not come from trust, but from thousands of years of investigation and trial and error. Evolution (nature) doesn't care about longevity. It cares about survival and reproduction. Longevity is a modern invention, which is fundamentally built on an unsustainable depletion of resources (it's "anti-nature"). In a sense, we're like vampires who drain the life from nature through our exploitation of it.

@Jodistrict Non-dualism has existed side by side with slavery.

The vikings were Red. The Viking Age lasted from the 8th to the 11th century.

The collective manifestation of Purple, untouched by the modern world, is a tribal society.

I love Danny Carrey's drumming on this so much. It's perfect.

Self-transcendence does not come through a weakening of the organism. It comes through the mastery of all domains of life.

You're not removing anything.

You're in luck, my friend

@Jodistrict You're getting hung up on normative interpretations of the models through metrics like "progress", "harmony with nature" and "consciousness". This isn't necessary. You don't have to assert anything in advance about what development is (other than its basic phenomenal nature; change, growth etc.) in order to appreciate the descriptive and predictive utility of these models. Development isn't good or bad unless you say so. Structural stage models merely choose a domain of study, e.g. cognition, and then they try to observe development through a lens of stages. What happens to be universal across these observations is the movement from simplicity to complexity, but that is simply a descriptive statement. Complexity isn't better than simplicity unless you say so. Complexity is arguably more messy and chaotic than simplicity, which could explain some of your reactions to it imo.

They show me what I lack. I don't believe Leo is an INTJ though. The first INTJ that comes to mind is Eric Weinstein. The way he talks is so impenetrable and unapologetic. Talk about Fe blindspot lol.

We're kinda talking about the same thing here.

Beliefs are building blocks of the mind, meaning the universe. They literally construct the contents of your experience.

I fear and admire INTJs

Is a snake in the jungle more conscious than a fat lady at the candy store?

I didn't feel that, maybe because I was busy agreeing with him. I've listened to their previous talks, and I cringe every time. There are particularly two points that they get stuck on constantly because Greg doesn't know what to say: 1. "Porn is drugs, psychedelics are not." 2. "I'm not religious, guys!" Here is my solution: 1. Psychedelics are "atypical drugs". They do not work like other "hedonic drugs" (cocaine, heroin etc.). The experience is emotionally complex and unpredictable, the mechanism of action is vastly different (the weirdness of the 5HT2A receptor and just the serotonin system in general), the anti-addictive effect, the extremely fast tolerance build-up; it's nothing like these other drugs. In that sense, porn is arguably more similar to these drugs than psychedelics are. 2. "Spiritual" or "religious" is just semantics, and both are inaccurate. Greg is talking about "the mystical experience" and how it impacts your relationship to things like environmentalism, feelings of meaning, the desire to be "pure" (abstaining from porn etc.). Like Mr. Girl and Destiny are saying, you can arrive at these things through other means, but Greg is talking about a particular way that you arrive at them, namely through an intrinsically motivated, post-rational, being/feeling/intuition-oriented approach, i.e. mysticism, and this approach is important. You could just tell that Destiny was having flashback when Greg started saying "but you don't exist!"