Source_Mystic

The simple answer is you do not @moon777light If you continue to follow leo more confusion awaits. He is an enept teacher when it comes to the process of enlightenment. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.106370/page/n5 Read this book and you will learn more about reality and conceptional traps than Leo's half ass explanations. Best book on the process of enlightenment I have ever read. Good luck.

I am not even sure if 70% of this forum will even bother to read what I post here ironically people do not like to read anything longer that a paragraph. Dont fret lazy cult members I will highlight all the essential points. He could not even do a month of meditative living with out having suicidal thoughts ! After two weeks he quit ... I ask you is that a enlightened man. Leo should have stuck with actualization and studied the process of enlightenment on his own time until he got a grasp on the fundamentals. You are an intellectual leo you absorb knowledge , yet enlightenment is not about knowledge or concept. knowledge is where your mind has been stuck since you started actualized.com absorbing knowledge from as many spheres as you can as fast as you can. It has caused many problems here as people started in self-actualization and then followed you directly into a completely different discipline and you just chugged along and went back and forth confusing the shit out of a good 70% of the people here adding concept after concept, mental minusha and more intellectual concept toys for your followers to play with and parrot back here. Yet you did them a great disservice. you created a trap for all of the beginners to enlightenment work. You fed them intellectualism knowledge and concept and then you expected them to progress in a completely different system using the same rules. When you clumsily said there was "no brains" I understood what you met even better than you did because I meditated for decades and because I have a foundation in zen. Then I wrote a very detailed post about concept, language mental constructs and the difference between the actual and the symbolic world of language . IT was not revived well because every one was so focused on your clumsy attempt to describe something you had not fully internalized yet. Now two and a half years later you stand here with all you misguided and confused followers and finally get to something that should have been a fundamental lesson. You are not a good teacher of the process of enlightenment and from what I am seeing from the past and now you took to many short cuts using drugs. Witch shows your sloppy haphazard way you try to teach enlightenment. You should have stuck to the sphere of knowledge and the world of the intellectual and actualization because you have given your followers the same disease you had and continue to have regarding enlightenment practices. The process of enlightenment is not about adding knowledge it is reductive is strips away until there is nothing left but the actual. The very fact that it took you three years to breach this topic is shameful. The people that hold up this web sight that understand the process of enlightenment had that understanding before they came here and should seriously think about if they want to be associated or waste there time with a teacher that is building his brand wearing a mask of accomplishment, when in fact , you are just fumbling along clumsily winging it when it comes the process of enlightenment. This place has become a trap for too many as they try to absorb as much knowledge as they can as fast as they can while simultaneously pursuing the process of enlightenment which has the completely opposite mechanism to reduce knowledge to eliminate concept and to increase awareness. Most of the threads are not answered in a constructive manner and are this type of pseudo intellectual mystical spiritualism, extrapolated from Leo's videos instead of experienced, processed and integrated by themselves personally. I have been around I have read threads asking questions that noone bothers answers adequately. I have addressed them individually in pm and I always give them this digital copy of this book because it gives the basics at the beginning and cuts though the mental shit and intellectual land mines leo throws at you every week. so please if you want to move forward and actually understand the fundamentals now instead of three years from now stop depending on leo as a guru and read this. It is free legal digital copy in the public domain. It is on the top of my book list yet. I will not charge you for it. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.106370/page/n5 This best book on zen it is not watered down it will help you understand the conceptual illusion we are all trapped in and how to move past that. It is also written by D.T. Suzuki an accomplished scholar that spoke fluent Japanese Chinese and English and lived and studded with monks in a monastery. Without this man and his books zen would not even be a word in the English language. This book is out of print but this is a free legal digital copy my wife found me has been ironically archived in in India . I have read this book three times in my life and I can say it is the best book on the enlightenment process i have ever read. this copy has a few spelling errors due to a non English speaking person translating it in to eBook format. it is nothing that a critical thinker can not easy mitigate or just read it in the direct facilely copy taken directly from the book every there pages or so that contains no errors. I challenge anyone her to go look at Leos responses the bulk of them not just one all. Go dig see what you find. how one sentence responses are what he considers adequate. The truth is leo stands on the shoulders of the people here that do know better than him. He reads others theory's and regurgitates them for you weekly. When will leo ever produce a original work instead standing on others shoulders parroting theory's and concepts? leo is a mask the person he shows you is not real. If he was sincere he would actually spend some time here counseling teaching and aiding in a meaningful way. He does not do this as you can see if you look at his responses to your questions. That is all I have to say Be wise and and take the path with the least amount of confusion. seek out teachers that know the information and have internalized it instead of ones stumbling though it. Even this video does not make it clear. . "Just keep staring at you hand and you will get it" take up the practice of navel gazing while you are at it and solve the mystery of belly button lint. Good luck in all that you do Goodby ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ @Leo GuraThe user @egoless has been banned for spreading misinformation about nonduality. In the future, I will be banning more people who keep talking shit about things they do not have direct experience of. This forum is not a zone to spout off all manner of falsehood under the banner of free speech. This kind of devilry will not fly here. If you don't agree, tough titty, find yourself some other corner of the web to shout your BS to. People who keep spreading JP's BS will also be banned. I expect better of you guys. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ What should your followers expect from you ? (Enter the thought police) Leo who the FU&% are to to tell people what to think and if there experience is valid you steal 99% of your information from others. leo how about yourself when the holotropic breathing issue came up you spread disinformation by saying the mechanism causing effects was excess oxygen. Instead I proved it was in fact oxygen deprivation aka hypoxia but you still have not corrected that. You can not even live up to your own standards. nor can you self correct. You are a hypocrite a plagiarist and a fraud. Your 5meo-dmt is a short cut that has robed you of any actual progress though enlightenment. you took the fast sloppy undisciplined way and it shows in what you produce and your mental state. What misinformation did he spread ? So I and all critical thinking individuates can assess for myself if you are right or wrong. If you will not state the MISINFORMATION so people can decide for themselves you will be perceived as a dictator. If you are going to start banning people you might want to explain exactly why. because when more and more people start disappearing because they disagree with you well that will be actualized.orgs downfall. I guess form your standpoint now getting rid of trouble makers instead of talking to them and resolving issues is a tactical move on your part. How many hours did egoless post and help others here how many hours did he help your brand and draw others in. How many post did he make? I see all his post are still here for you to Profit off of. Well not with me I have hidden 95% of my post and all my original content off this sight what is left is personal help I gave individuates or things I really do not care about. If you would like to ban me feel free I have not posted directly on your forum in a long while and I just focused on helping others in pm and it is not because I want to take your followers I do not want anything or anyone from this sight because I view you and your followers and influence as fruit from the Poisonous tree. You have 70% of the people here so goddam confused and so invested in you intellectual concept traps only the ones that are new to enlightenment are the ones I could help. The rest are so indoctrinated to the cult of leo I can not unfuck there minds. As for the other 30% that have acquired some enlightenment experiences they all ready had the tools before they got here. them like me you have nothing to offer. As I see though the mask of @Leo Gura. So disappear me if you will let the mass banning began I will take it as a compliment at this point. All of my experience was hard earned though years of practice. Your biggest mistake was adding enlightenment to actualized.com You are quite adept at self actualization because you are intellectual and the world of concept is your play ground. That is the very reason you will stall in your process of enlightenment that continues to be you biggest weakness and trap. Attachment to information , no not attachment , addiction to information. Until you over come that you will not go any farther pretend as you may. To the followers of the cult of leo If you are smart you will stop supporting a person that hides behind knowledge and produces nothing of any consequence himself you think after all that reading all that cross referencing at the least he could do is come up with some unique points of correlation and some original ideas. Yet that is not the case he still is a cliff notes version of everything he reads. I am completely done with this sight and anyone that has to do with it. Cheers

Read this https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.106370/page/n5 and you will know or keep gazeing at you hand your choice.

No you are doing it wrong gaze at you belly button and solve the mystery of how belly button lint is created. Good luck counting the minuets before I am banned lol

Leo should have stuck with actualization and studied the process of enlightenment on his own time until he got a grasp on the fundamentals. You are an intellectual leo you absorb knowledge , yet enlightenment is not about knowledge or concept. knowledge is where your mind has been stuck since you started actualized.com absorbing knowledge from as many spheres as you can as fast as you can. It has caused many problems here as people started in self-actualization and then followed you directly into a completely different discipline and you just chugged along and went back and forth confusing the shit out of a good 70% of the people here adding concept after concept, mental minusha and more intellectual concept toys for your followers to play with and parrot back here. Yet you did them a great disservice. you created a trap for all of the beginners to enlightenment work. You fed them intellectualism knowledge and concept and then you expected them to progress in a completely different system using the same rules. When you clumsily said there was "no brains" I understood what you met even better than you did because I meditated for decades and because I have a foundation in zen. Then I wrote a very detailed post about concept, language mental constructs and the difference between the actual and the symbolic world of language . IT was not revived well because every one was so focused on your clumsy attempt to describe something you had not fully internalized yet. Now three years later you stand here with all you misguided and confused followers and finally get to something that should have been a fundamental lesson. You are not a good teacher of the process of enlightenment and from what I am seeing from the past and now you took to many short cuts using drugs. Witch shows your sloppy haphazard way you try to teach enlightenment. You should have stuck to the sphere of knowledge and the world of the intellectual and actualization because you have given your followers the same disease you had and continue to have regarding enlightenment practices. The process of enlightenment is not about adding knowledge it is reductive is strips away until there is nothing left but the actual. The very fact that it took you three years to breach this topic is shameful. The people that hold up this web sight that understand the process of enlightenment had that understanding before they came here and should seriously think about if they want to be associated or waste there time with a teacher that is building his brand wearing a mask of accomplishment, when in fact , you are just fumbling along clumsily winging it when it comes the process of enlightenment. This place has become a trap for too many as they try to absorb as much knowledge as they can as fast as they can while simultaneously pursuing the process of enlightenment which has the completely opposite mechanism to reduce knowledge to eliminate concept and to increase awareness. Most of the threads are not answered in a constructive manner and are this type of pseudo intellectual mystical spiritualism, extrapolated from Leo's videos instead of experienced, processed and integrated by themselves personally. I have been around I have read threads asking questions that noone bothers answers adequately. I have addressed them individually in pm and I always give them this digital copy of this book because it gives the basics at the beginning and cuts though the mental shit and intellectual land mines leo throws at you every week. so please if you want to move forward and actually understand the fundamentals now instead of three years from now stop depending on leo as a guru and read this. It is free legal digital copy in the public domain. It is on the top of my book list yet. I will not charge you for it. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.106370/page/n5 This best book on zen it is not watered down it will help you understand the conceptual illusion we are all trapped in and how to move past that. It is also written by D.T. Suzuki an accomplished scholar that spoke fluent Japanese Chinese and English and lived and studded with monks in a monastery. Without this man and his books zen would not even be a word in the English language. This book is out of print but this is a free legal digital copy my wife found me has been ironically archived in in India . I have read this book three times in my life and I can say it is the best book on the enlightenment process i have ever read. this copy has a few spelling errors due to a non English speaking person translating it in to eBook format. it is nothing that a critical thinker can not easy mitigate or just read it in the direct facilely copy taken directly from the book every there pages or so that contains no errors. I challenge anyone her to go look at Leos responses the bulk of them not just one all. Go dig see what you find. how one sentence responses are what he considers adequate. The truth is leo stands on the shoulders of the people here that do know better than him. He reads others theory's and regurgitates them for you weekly. When will leo ever produce a original work instead standing on others shoulders parroting theory's and concepts? leo is a mask the person he shows you is not real. If he was sincere he would actually spend some time here counseling teaching and aiding in a meaningful way. He does not do this as you can see if you look at his responses to your questions. That is all I have to say Be wise and and take the path with the least amount of confusion. seek out teachers that know the information and have internalized it instead of ones stumbling though it. Even this video does not make it clear. . "Just keep staring at you hand and you will get it" take up the practice of navel gazing while you are at it and solve the mystery of belly button lint. Good luck in all that you do Goodby @Leo GuraThe user @egoless has been banned for spreading misinformation about nonduality. In the future, I will be banning more people who keep talking shit about things they do not have direct experience of. This forum is not a zone to spout off all manner of falsehood under the banner of free speech. This kind of devilry will not fly here. If you don't agree, tough titty, find yourself some other corner of the web to shout your BS to. People who keep spreading JP's BS will also be banned. I expect better of you guys. What misinformation did he spread ? So I and all critical thinking individuates can assess for myself if you are right or wrong. If you will not state the MISINFORMATION so people can decide for themselves you will be perceived as a dictator. If you are going to start banning people you might want to explain exactly why. because when more and more people start disappearing because they disagree with you well that will be actualized.orgs downfall. I guess form your standpoint now getting rid of trouble makers instead of talking to them and resolving issues is a tactical move on your part. How many hours did egoless post and help others here how many hours did he help your brand and draw others in. How many post did he make? i see all his post are still here for you to Profit off of. Well not with me I have hidden 95% of my post and all my original content off this sight what is left is personal help I gave individuates or things I really do not care about. If you would like to ban me feel free I have not posted directly on your forum and I just help others in pm and it is not because I want to take your followers I do not want anything or anyone from this sight because I view you and your followers and influence as fruit from the Poisonous tree tree. You have 70% of the people here so goddam confused and so invested in you intellectual concept traps only the ones that are new to enlightenment are the ones I could help. the rest are so indoctrinated to the cult of leo I can not unfuck there minds. As for the other 30% that have acquired some enlightenment experiences they all ready had the tools before they got here. And to them like me you have nothing to offer. As I see though the mask of @Leo Gura. So disappear me if you will let the mass banning began I will take it as a compliment at this point. All of my experience was hard earned though years of practice. Your biggest mistake was adding enlightenment to actualized.com You are quite adept at self actualization because you are intellectual and the world of concept is your play ground. That is the very reason you will stall in your process of enlightenment that continues to be you biggest weakness and trap. Attachment to information no not attachment addiction to information. until you over come that you will not go any farther. If you are smart you will stop supporting a person that hides behind knowledge and produces nothing of any consequence himself you think after all that reading all that cross referencing at the least he could do is come up with some unique points of correlation and some original ideas. Yet that is not the case he still is a cliff notes version of everything he reads. I am completely done with this sight and anyone that has to do with it.

I once respected Leo for his tenacity dedication and nonbias oppinion bit those days are long gone. In showing the mechnisem of holotropic/shamanic breathing is in fact oxygen deprevation causing the effect. The resistance to this simple fact by Leo his followers as well as a large percentage of this community has shown me the true nature of this place and what it has become. When I came across acuulized.org I saw it as a catalyst for positive change a place where people could come togeather and share information on how their path was progressing and give insight and help to others. That may very well be what it was, but that is not what curently. Today aculize.org is a cult of Leo. Where facts are dawrfed by his charisma and influence. People spend more time defending him and his pratices than researching them and coming to there own conclusions. This sight has become the status quo of Leo and his point of view which is seen beyond reproach by his followers, that wish to be nothing more than a Leo clone. The only reason I have been as pasionate and relentless in the facts of holotropic/shamanic breathing is I feel based on the very real facts it is dangerious especially if done for extended times or on a regular basses. What I have goten in return is personal atack and hostility, while people completely ignore the facts. So be it. Ignore the facts and let Leo direct your path instead of you being responsible for it yourself. That is the mentally of a cult follower. So this is in fact my last post I have shut off all notifications and will have nothing to do with this sight directly anymore. If any of you that I have helped with meditation or I have befriended would like to keep on contact send me a message with your email in mail system here. I will come back and review it in a weeks time. After that I will no longer associate or participate with aculize.org in anyway. Even though I do not agree with all that goes on here, I still wish all of you well even Leo. I truly hope you all find what you are looking for. GOODBYE AND FAREWELL

Well I guess I will adress what has been posted and then take my leave. @Faceless @egoless @Joseph Maynor @WildeChilde and so many others I have met and had great conversations, disccusions and even at times heated arguments that I have learned a great deal from. You will be missed. @Eudaimonia I do not blame Leo for others actions but he does have some responceablity to uphold a reasonable example and currently I feel that responceablity is lacking. @Hsinav it really is not about me being right. At the core what this was about the fact that Leo and others could not just do some research and and admit that this pracice is and effects are due to oxygen deprevation. That was my main problem. They could not look at that very verifiable fact and just accept that because it weakened there case for holotropic/shamanic breathing. All I wanted was that single fact researched and affermed by Leo since he is the one everyone here seems to follow. That was all I truly wanted, awarness that the effects are caused by oxogen deprevation. Then with at least with that basic knowledge everyone here could make an informed decision themselfs. When that could not happen it set off a series of alarms for me about Leo and his followers. I am not here to control anyone or tell them what to do. That being said a person should be atacked for bringing verifiable facts into a disccusion. @Truth I was not talking about you spicificaly it was a general statement that encompassed everyone that was saying things like "gross projection" or" your projecting"or sidelining what I was saying. Instead of adressing it directly. It was decided it was a far better strategy to distract and attack. Defending there own position at all cost. Instead of having a actual conversation. @Leo Gura I know you love holotropic/shamanic breathing. All I wanted was for you to be at the very least transparent with you community that the mechinism was oxygen deprevation. So they could make up there own minds. Every place and websight I went to nothing was discussed about what was causing the effect it really looks like that fact is hidden from the holotropic community. I am not good with people hiding information. I am sure you test your drugs to make sure you know what you are taking in the same vain people at the very least should know what this tequinique is being caused by. I can tell you from my many decades of meditaton and researching anything remotely religious, spiritual,magickal, or mystical that almost anything can be done though meditation or active awareness. It is not always easy but it gets results. I can guarantee that no physical damage is done to the meditater. Now there are meditation tequiniques that I am aware of that if one is not ready to face their trama can cause psychological damage. For those tequinques I believe the person finds them or finds a person that can guide them though those safely or disovers them themselfs when they are ready. When you climb it is not about speed it is about getting a firm grip and footing then even that is not enough sometimes and you may fall anyway but that is what the rope and harness is for. See, it is not that I refuse to take risks I just midigate them with common sense. I also acess wheather the risk to reward ratio is even worth it. It this case and from my prospective and experance the small gains do not justify the possible damage done. Especilly when other techniques thst exist that deal with processing trama better healthier and with no physical risk. Furthermore my path has been directed into a shamanic focus and the thought of you talking or teaching about shamanism or shamanic pratices is a bit horrfying. It reminds me when my world religions professor had a heart attck and while he was in recovery he got replaced with bible and divinity professor. The bias showed though in every lesion. The course from that point on was a complete waste. I can not see shamanism being transmitted in a authentic way with your curent bias. Totem animals , vision quest , alles, spirit ancestoral guides , omens, journeying , walking the boundary between this world and the next, nateral magick. I truly do not think that these things can be authenicaly transmitted by you. But I hope I am wrong as shamanism has great ways to help us all heal , communicate more efficiently with ourselfs , others and beyond. It also has fantastic ways explore enhanced and alterstates of conscious and the connections to Dreams. Dreams are often overlooked in enlightenment and aculization work and I feel that that is a grave mistake. I wish everyone here well on their individual path I hope you find ways to deal with your trama safety and find all the tools you need to become a fully a actualized beings. Farwell and good luck P.s. directly after I wrote this your sight went down which from a stand point of synchronicty and omens confirms indeed my time here is over as I was just now alowed to post it.

I sent a message leo he has not read it or responded in in two days so I am bringing this to the community's attention Well I tried this twice for 20 minuets. I tested spO2 level with my s7 smart phone and it was below 95 percent that is not good. My levels never go below 95 as I test them every day as part of my daily routine. Also the symptoms of numbness and pins and nettles in the extremity's as well as in the head are signs of hypoxica or lack of o2 getting to the brain. If you commit to this practice you could be doing permanent brain damage every time. As I believe the effects are from lack of oxygen from my experience and test as well as my limited research. Further more O2 SATURATION DOES NOT GO ABOVE 100%. And leo's premise that you are getting more oxygen is I believe is incorrect. If you do your research you can see this for yourself. I am all for breakthrough techniques but Not at the expense of the health or damage to your physical brain. Please before you commit to this practice learn what it is doing to your brain and the mechanisms that are causing the effect. Let me be clear this is not a direct attack on leo I believe he is in error and I welcome him to do his own research into what I am saying just as I am asking you for your own safety. Below is a extract from an article by Joe miller if what he says is true you should do more research and test you 02/spo2 saturation yourself then make a informed choice based on all your findings as to whether (Holtropic/aka leo's "shamanic breathing) is right for you. "You might think the problem is too much oxygen. But in healthy people arterial blood leaving the lungs is already nearly fully saturated with oxygen, even during quiet breathing. In other words, you can’t take in too much oxygen. Rather, the problem with hyperventilation comes from blowing off too much carbon dioxide. In normal breathing, small amounts of incoming air are mixed with a much larger volume of air remaining within the alveoli (the air sacs in the lungs where gas exchange with the blood takes place). This has the effect of maintaining an internal atmosphere within the lungs that contains a much higher percentage of CO2 than does the air outside (carbon dioxide makes up only a very small percentage of atmospheric air). CO2 levels in the bloodstream closely reflect the composition of this internal atmosphere, so that during hyperventilation, as more carbon dioxide is expelled from the alveoli, CO2 levels in the blood also fall. We tend to see CO2 as a waste product, something to be disposed of. But in fact we need to keep CO2 in the blood within a certain range, because it plays an important role in maintaining blood pH. As CO2 levels drop during hyperventilation, the result is a higher, or more alkaline, pH. Because of this rise in blood pH, hyperventilation has an effect that might at first seem paradoxical—by over breathing, we actually reduce the amount of oxygen getting to the brain, a situation termed cerebral hypoxia. This became an issue during World War II. Hyperventilating military pilots tended to become confused and disoriented. Researchers studying conscientious objectors in the laboratory were able to confirm that hyperventilation led to a reduction in blood flow to the brain, which had long been suspected. Their supposition was this was due to constriction of cerebral blood vessels. This has subsequently been shown to be the case, and although the exact mechanism is still debated, it’s clear that a rise in blood pH triggers arterial constriction. What’s worse is that when blood becomes more alkaline, hemoglobin (the molecule that transports oxygen in the red blood cells) tends to hold on more tightly to oxygen. This makes sense in the context of allocating oxygen to the tissues that need it most: metabolically active tissues that have consumed a lot of oxygen and need to replenish it will have also produced a lot of CO2. This creates a more acidic local environment, which in turn causes hemoglobin to release more oxygen. The reverse is true when conditions are more alkaline; tissues don’t get as much oxygen, because hemoglobin hangs on to it. Thus, the brain gets hit with a double whammy during hyperventilation—less blood flow, plus less oxygen being released from the blood." I have been away from the Forums as my path has changed dramatically and does not leave much time for this forum. I still drop by from time to time and I hope you are all well , I wish nothing but the best for you all of you. Which is why I have written this post. Now that I have brought awareness to this practice and its possible dangers I leave the rest up to you. Do your research and stay safe. I am not going back to my cave to do my work please do not expect me to respond as my withdraw from this forum is deliberate so I have more time to do what needs to be done on my path. After I come to my conclusions in my work if any of it translates to things I may share with others, I will but I am no where near that yet. My new journey is just beginning. Hallucinogens have nothing to do with it. Farewell and stay safe

Lol facts for me ....... Facts do not work that way test do not work that way ..... Facts are the same for everyone no matter what. You do not get to choose. I am not the one creating alternative facts Leo is rather omiting the truth and replacing it with his own personal naritive. Nor will he reasearch test or even acknowledge the facts of the matter. He chooses willed ignorance instead and as a leader that is dangerous. Leo,s stateents on his video that it is says "your brain is getting so much oxygen" this is false ... It is a fallacy he is wrong further more it is the exact opposite the brain is getting a lack of oxygen so much of a lack it is shutting down and not functioning properly. I did not choose this fact! It is true mechanism that is causing the effects. I think people should have that information before starting this pracice. The fact is you are starving your brain for oxygen untill it can no longer function as long as you are doing this tequinique. Furthermore this fact is hidden so that people will use this. As for the rest those are Leo,s short comings and if he can not face them well I guess he is not enlightened as everyone here thought. This has nothing to do with dogma or morality it is not even really about Leo it is about telling people the truth what a breathing tequinique is and not misrepresenting it. But I have come to terms that Leo will not admit that he is wrong or correct his behavior. If he wants to call induced hypoxia excess oxygen saturation so be it. I show the proof of what I have said and warned people that this could very well be dangerious espicaly if used for long periods of time or many sessions. I have gone so far as to quote experts with medical expertise far greater than mine To show and prove what I am saying. I have seen no due diligence or valid counter argument .... as a matter of fact most of people here choose Leo's opinion over facts and that is dangerous. Because he misrepresents holotropic/shamanic breathing completely. I am sure Leo test his drugs to make sure what he has gotten is what he intends to take. You should know at the very least what is causing the effects. But please follow chrisma instead of facts ..... by all means let people create alternative facts which is just another term for a lie. Actual facts are verifiable testable and able to be reproduced. Do your own reasearch do not trust others to do the work for you as So Many here have done. Also when debating the appropriate Responce is to research the topic and make a counter argument not atack the person personaly or deflect.... go do the work and comeback with a actual Responce. 99% of the people here can't or won't do that they are too busy agreeing with Leo. I have realized that at this point this is a complete waste of my time that I could be doing other things ..... If people will not do their own research so be it. I would rather think that most of the people here would make educated decisions based on facts. But it seems this place is just an extension of the world ...... The followers will follow and the leaders try to forge a better way. Followers do not question. The problem is when leaders abuse there power and start rewriting facts to suit there own agenda. I would rather you would think for yourself but sheep will be sheep.

Everyone is free to do what the want including Leo ..... as he is right now. He has the right to make bias polarized decisions backed up by nothing but his willed ingnoance ( deliberate lack of knowledge). He is free to talk one way and do another thing .... That is called a hypocrite. He has the right to ignore knowledge and facts when it serves him and his agenda. He has the right to error lie and create , confusion as well as fallacy and falsehood. He has the right to avoid me the truth and responcability of his actions. THEN AGAIN....I also have the right to point out all these things and show people what Leo is by his actions when he does. All I asked for is honnesty and transparency about this pracice. I wanted it explained using facts so people can make a well informed decision. Instead of this new age bullshit that is not even admittng what it is ? Leo can not even say that this pracice is causing lack of oxygen as its mechanism that is causing the effects. That is what is dangerious he does not show you what this practice acualy is. He shows you an illusion.

Nope , I will be here untill Leo corrects his errors and understands the mechanism that is causing the effect. Then tells his community this information untill that happens. Here I sit on the side of truth and transparency. If he can not do that then he is showing everyone here that he makes choices based on willed ignorance ( deliberate lack of knowledge ) If that is the case no one should follow him as he is a hypocrite. Avoidance is not an answer ether it is nearly a cowards crutch.

@Leo Gura I was unaware that you had taken any corrective action. What and how did you correct the previous errors ? Your video on the subject has not changed ? Have you researched the topic? Have you been honest with your community that it is oxygen deprevation causing the effcts? How has this been resolved exactly ? I am not being hysterical that would be a projection of your mind. I just want you to eather research the pracice yourself and tell you commnity what is the mechinism aka reason the experance is happening OR I want you to tell people you are too lazy to do the reasearch and that it is ok to make decisions based on ignorance and bias instead knowledge and wisdom I expect you to live up to your own standards ..... Or I guess you can just avoid this post like all the others that seems to be your new path. Enlightenment though avoidance and deflection. What I am asking is simple concede that the effects are from lack of oxygen And that the reason the effects are happing are that through his technique you are starving your brain of the oxygen it needs untill it basically can not function. This is the truth so why is it so hard for you to admit ?

@Leo Gura So are you going to correct your errors and stop spreading misinformation and be transparent and nonbias or are you going to hide behind a shroud of willed ingnoance and avoidance. This technique causes extended oxygen deprevation. That is lack of oxygen to your brain body and organs for the entire duration you pracice it.

@Lurtsi This effect is due to the lack of oxygen to your body and brain. Do some reasearch into oxygen deprevation and whether it is healthy.

@Leo Gura please address and correct your errors like a man be transparent and nonbias Leo. Avoidance ignorance and laziness are not enlightened and if you cling to them nither are you. @Erlend K Thank you @Leo Gura I used the word obsession as a hook as a provocative way to get attention to the post not really as projection. I could have just as easily said focus. I get obsessed or focused on subjects myself but when I do I still look at all sides. My obsession or focus is understanding a subject as compleatly as I can. Nor am I above error but an enlightened person addresses their shortcomings and corrects them. Leo you refuse to do that or adequately test this methiod. Avoidance and ignorance of a subject is not walking the path of truth. All I wanted was transparency of the subject. I want facts about what this technique is doing and that it is depriving your brain of oxygen to achieve the effect. If after that people think it is a good idea to do this 52 times in a year or for 9 hours in one day I can not help those people , nor is that my intent. My intent is awarness always has been always will be. I want people to be aware of all the facts then make their own choice out of understanding not ignorance. @eskwire How is that research coming ? I am waiting for somene to show me how extended oxygen deprevation from 15 minuets to 9 hours is healthy and furthermore so healthy that it should be a regualiar practice daily or weekly for 52 sessions in a year.

You should look into deflection Leo. Do not bother responding as if you read my messages you can see every thing I would have said to you regarding this pracice. I am done ...... Farewell everyone I hope you stay in good health. And research things for yourself from now on.

@Truth Thank you, I know alot of people here are just ingnoring what I am saying What they do not undestand is that genuinely give a shit. If Leo is going to make this it his pet project great I expect him to at the very least do his due diligence and give the facts in a clear ,concise and transparent manner. So people can make a informed decision. Based on real facts not I do not know what causes the effects ? That is a lazy bullshit excuse especially coming from Leo. I expect him to live up to all those principals he talks about.

Good luck with that I am encouraging others to do the research he refuses to. Also discoraging the practice altogether ..... as well as calling Leo out on several levels. I kind of doubt this thread will get equal treatment with his mega thread nor do I care if it does. All I care about is awarness of this and that people get full disclosure to what this exactly is. So they can make a informed decision.

My premise comes from the fact that it is depriving your brain to the point it can no longer function I can not imagine this is good for you. Espicaly with repeated sessions. Or for preloned periods of time. And one of my biggest problems is leos fallacy and non transparency as to what is causing the effect. He should give people the full and nonbias facts so they can make informed decisions. But how can they when he refuses to.

Sure that is fair. Make sure you study hyperventlation as well since that is what we are really talking about prolonged hyperventlation and is effects.

Leo has traind you well to take his side even when he is in error. + 1 mindless cult member point for you. Good job.

Extended Oxygen Deprivation because lets call a rose a rose. let's dispense with the new age bullshit and be completely transparent as to what this is and what mechanism is causing it. If people really want to hallucinate though extended oxygen deprivation no matter the cost or damage done to their body or brain maybe they do not need it anyway.

What does of oxygen deprivation is safe ? How much Damage does it do per session of 30 minuets? How a bout a hour an hour? How about three ? or nine hours? What is the collective damage being done if someone does this 52 times in a year as your ignorant guru recommends . Let me be clear I keep using the term ignorant until he educates himself adequately on the subject. Because ignorance in the context I am using is lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular. Which apples to leo at the moment and will until the time the looks at the facts understands the topic instead of talking around it or clinging on to self-delusion and defense instead of the concrete reality of the matter at hand. His video should be taken down he should do the research correct the fallacy that the mechanism is that causing the effect is "because you are oxygenating brain so much" He needs to do the research and be honest and transparent about the cause of the effect. If he does not he is creating falsehoods that misdirecting and misinforming his community. If he can not do this he is unfit to teach anything because he can not admit he is wrong even when he is that is not a enlightened view or outlook. What I expect is complete and honest educated transparency not errors, not fallacy's not defenses. I want him to tell you to your face what is causing this effect then I want him to tell you that he considers (extended oxygen deprivation ) aka Holotropic/shamanic breathing safe. Then I want him to take a comprehensive I.Q. and cognitive test. Next I want him to do a trial of what he is prescribing to his followers of first three, 3 hour sessions with a small break in between testing his spO2 (oxygen saturation percentile levels) immediately after teach of those three hours blocks . That will be a total of nine hours in one day. That is what he is recommending is safe for all of you in his video so he should have no problem doing that . Then I want him to do this practice for one year at least once a week that is 52 sessions of three hours. finally I want him to take that same I.Q and cognitive aptitude test. If after all that he has the same cognitive ability that he had on the first test he can say that is is safe to do these practices. Until he does all of this he is just ignorant coward that can not do what he is recommending for you. That will not test his theory's or research the mechanism that is causing the effect. If he can not even test his O2 saturation and correct his errors he is no longer fit to teach anyone. because his teachings are no longer based on facts or truth they are based on bias and ignorance. The mere fact that he has not responded to me in four days when I posted a privet message so we could talk about this also is disturbing. That left me no other option than to come on the forms and inform all of you. Leaders do not get to avoid or defer responsibility they actually have more not less. leo puts himself off like this wise person that is beyond reproach that always does his research. He talks about truth and knowledge and not being self deceived or mislead he talks a good game. Now I am calling him on it. He has been on here all day. I have not seen once adress address the problem like a man or talk about this he avoids the problem like a child. If he can not admit that he was in error and correct himself and stand for the principals that he shows you in all his videos of what use is this forum. When it shows nothing but the distorted illusion of a man that never existed in the first place. If that is the case and you still want to follow him I pity you. leo go read , go research , go test your spO2 levels correct the fallacy in your video and be transparent and honest with what you find. Make your decision out of an educated understanding not ignorance of a subject. Ignorance is not a excuse especially for you. If you can not do that then stand up and tell all of your followers that it is fine to be lazy and not do the work or research or understand truth it is fine to see things the way you want to and ignore facts. Show them who you are leo are you the illusion of a man of principal, or are you actually a man of principal that made a mistake and can admit it.

Let's dispense with the bullshit and call a rose a rose. The mechanism that causes the effect is extended oxygen deprivation. That is what I am calling this practice from now on from now on. If you want more actual info from a person that actually tried it twice measured my SpO2 levels (Oxygen saturation percentile) immediately after I stopped then realized that they were lower and wanted to actually know what the mechanism was that was causing the effects go here. If you want to keep following a person that does not even understand the effect that is taking place or what damage it may cause I can not help you. leo himself states "It is because you are oxygenating brain so much" (direct quote from video) has little to no understanding of blood chemistry or what he is talking about on this subject. Your blood saturation will never go above 100% ever. The above statements are made out of ignorance and laziness of someone that actually refuses to do the research . I am not a fan of willed ignorance and I never thought I would see it out of leo. But here we are. The fact that he places a legal disclaimer on a video of something he still refuses to research adequately is absurd. The very fact that he uses rhetoric skills to talk around a subject and influence you without knowing what is going on is lazy and ridiculous. I expected more out of leo that this shotty half ass assertion of something he refuses to just take 20 minuets to research into or even recognize the dangers thereof. I am fine with his self proclaimed status as Guinea pig and his irresponsible actions regarding himself. Where I have a problem is him leading and influencing others into something that could be dangerous. Where is that radical open-mindedness now leo? Where is that due diligence? Where is that quest to know the truth at all cost? From where I stand I do not see a great man I see a man that refuses to see the truth and only wants to see what he wants though willed ignorance and laziness. I also see a person that is abusing his power and influence here and very well may be leading people down a path that could potentially harm them. and I can not tolerate that. Do your own research and do something even leo has not done this time. Make a well informed decision based on the facts. My results are verifiable just go look and repeat them yourself then once you know the risks and you still want ignore them so be it. At least you will know what is going on instead of standing on the side of ignorance. If people really want to hallucinate though extended oxygen deprivation no matter the cost or damage done to their body or brain maybe they do not need it anyway.

My problem is what the mechanism is The more research I do the more I see this as dangerous especially as a regular or extended practice. I keep running into-things like this "Binding of oxygen to hemoglobin Blood is not a wondrous fluid with magical properties. Instead blood is a transport fluid. It transports oxygen, electrolytes, proteins, hormones, fats and sugars to tissues, and removes waste products of metabolism, hormones, products of metabolisms, etc away from tissues. Oxygen is transported by blood from the lungs where it enters the body. However oxygen is very poorly soluble in blood, and blood contains negligible amounts of dissolved oxygen. Practically all oxygen in blood is chemically bound to hemoglobin inside red blood cells. But the chemical binding of oxygen with hemoglobin is directly affected by the acidity and alkalinity of blood (i.e. the pH of blood). Hyperventilation causes loss of carbon dioxide from the body, causing the pH of blood to increase and become more alkaline. When blood is more alkaline, hemoglobin binds more tightly with oxygen. Oxygen bound to hemoglobin within red blood cells does nothing, because binding of oxygen to hemoglobin within red blood cells is no more than the body's method of transporting oxygen to the capillaries within the tissues of the body. Within the capillaries of the tissues of the body, the chemical bond between oxygen and hemoglobin is weak enough to allow oxygen to leave the blood and diffuse into the cells surrounding the capillaries, so providing oxygen for the vital, energy-generating chemical processes within the cells forming the tissues of the body. But when hyperventilation causes oxygen to bind more tightly to hemoglobin, less oxygen is released to diffuse into the tissues surrounding the capillaries. The oxyhemoglobin saturation curve demonstrates this effect, showing that hemoglobin binds oxygen more tightly during hyperventilation (Figure 7). This is why hyperventilation can cause less oxygen to enter the tissues of the body from the capillaries, so resulting in hypoxia of the cells outside the blood vessels, even though the blood contains more than sufficient oxygen. Hyperventilation causes cerebral hypoxia But does hyperventilation cause cerebral hypoxia? Hyperventilation has profound effects on the transport and delivery of oxygen to the tissues of the body. Hyperventilation reduces the cerebral blood flow, and to make matters worse, hyperventilation also causes oxygen to bind more tightly with hemoglobin. Both factors combine to reduce the availability of oxygen to the tissues of the brain, and can even cause cerebral hypoxia. Animal studies reveal that extreme hyperventilation does indeed cause cerebral hypoxia (Clausen 2004, Sugioka 1960). The tragic fatal effects of relative hyperventilation in humans with severe chronic obstructive airway disease, also reveals that hyperventilation in humans can result in cerebral hypoxia severe enough to cause actual brain damage and brain death (Kilburn 1966, Rotheram 1964). Furthermore, hyperventilation has also been implicated as one of the potential causes of postoperative cognitive dysfunction. Hyperventilation-induced frontal lobe failure This last remark brings us to the effects of hyperventilation on conscious mental function. These were discussed earlier in this chapter and consist of manifestations such as: disturbed mentation, impaired concentration, poor memory, and hallucinations. Feelings of depersonalization are also common, as hyperventilating persons often describe sensations of unreality, or feeling everything is confused and dream-like. Many of these conscious mental experiences and manifestations are similar to those of cerebral hypoxia (see Chapter 4). And during extreme degrees of hyperventilation, the degree of cerebral hypoxia may be sufficient to cause loss of consciousness. But is this true for lesser degrees of hyperventilation?" The effect is not the problem the mechanism that is causing the effect is. It is depriving you brain of oxygen for however long you are doing it. Personalty that is all I need to know. Healthy brain = 100% O2 > Unhealthy brain = lack of O2 ...... Any questions ? On some level this is doing brain damage. As for what leo can do. He should take down the video correct the fallacy that this practice mechanism is that causing the effect is "because you are oxygenating brain so much" He needs to Do the research and be honest and transparent about the cause of the effect. He needs to take more responsibility for what he puts out if it has the possibility to harm anyone. He also needs to understand and illustrate What he is doing better. As if this has not shown me anything else is that in this instance he was lazy and did not do the research he should have before he backed this practice. He sure put that disclaimer in there though to protect his ass. What it comes down to is the mechanism for this is it is depriving you brain body and organs of oxygen thus creating all the effects because your starved brain can not function normally ask any dr if hypoxia is good for you in any amount. Then compound that damage with regular use. This Whole thing seems insane and the way it is packaged and as a treatment is deceptive. Every time I go looking on the internet I get all the positive testimonials but you know what I do not get anny real explanation on what and how this is occurring . Further more if I came up to you on the street and said "I am going to deprive you brain and body of oxygen for 20 minuets to 3 hours and you will trip balls. Would your response be "Ya lets do that, lets do lots of that , on a regular basses for 9 hours at a time or once a week or once every day. Sounds good to me, what the fuck do I need my brain for anyway." No your response would be "are you out of you fucken mind! " I have meditated for years in a lot of different styles none of them cause damage. If people really want to hallucinate though extended oxygen deprivation no matter the cost or damage done to their body or brain maybe they do not need it anyway. I will no longer call this practice holotropic/shamanic breathing it will now be Extended Oxygen Deprivation because lets call a rose a rose. let's dispense with the new age bullshit and be completely transparent as to what this is and what mechanism causes it.