Koyaanisqatsi

Enlightenment is possibly one of the trickiest concepts/beliefs to deal with. There are so many explanations, so many definitions, and we build up ideas about what it will be like (e.g. I will be perfect and people will love me and follow me and listen to my wise words). When those definitions and beliefs about what it 'will be' are clung to and held up as 'real' or 'true', we hide what is. In the end, it's not something that can be proven to others--and I don't feel a need to compare definitions as they are all part of the dream. Liberation is the dissolution of all distinctions and boundaries--including 'me' and 'other', and all words and concepts--so it can't be described. That in essence is the problem, and may be why silence is such a part of most paths. In the silence you can find your 'self'. It will not match any description you've ever heard, but the pointers may all make sense. You will know when you know, but there won't be any 'person' there who cares about it. It's just what's happening.

Thank you for the warning.

Mikael will do what Mikael will do. There is no entity controlling Mikael, or Ken, or you. It's all just happening spontaneously.

I don't know about ultimate reality (what is that?). I would echo Roger Castillo and say that the only truth in the manifestation is the impersonal sense of "I am." To me, Maya is the illusion. That is not love--that is suffering. The connection to source, however, feels like love. Not the love that most of you are probably thinking about. I would call that love more like 'desire' and would actually lump it in with suffering. It has needs, it has conditions--it can go away. Not this. The feeling I experience is that there is a love that shines on all, for no reason/without condition. It shines on 'others' as equally as it shines on 'me'. It never stops. It never changes. It's always there. It is prior to mind and feels like the only thing that is 'real' (because it doesn't change and everything else is always changing--impermanent).

Be careful of spiritual beliefs. I had a lot of them, too. There are so many misunderstanding of what happens. I have not met anyone who is aware of their thoughts 24/7. Awareness is only available in the waking and dream states, not in deep sleep. There is a feeling of being constantly present (that's the only thing there is--everything is happening 'now'), of not going into 'time' (except for practical things like pickup someone up from school). Perhaps most if not all of the thoughts that do come up are seen (by no one--there is just a seeing of them). That doesn't seem important, though. Thoughts that revolve around being a separate individual are gone.

I have not heard him say those words. My understanding of his teaching is that he would say something to the effect of, "Seeing the wave is really ocean doesn't negate the wave." These things can get tricky. Be careful of spiritual beliefs. Many teachers use different words for the same thing, yet no words are really true, and no one really knows what is going on or how/why anything happens. Everyone is doing their best to share from their experience, and there is a lot of misinterpretation, but that is just what happens. Ultimately, none of this can be talked about--any attempt at explanation distorts what is being pointed to. And taking a stand is possible only from within separation, within the dream. So Nisargadatta Maharaj saying that liberation means X is the character of Nisargadatta Maharaj speaking from a point of relativity. Does that mean he wasn't enlightened? (To me it means that he both is and isn't enlightened--as are 'you'.) What exactly is or isn't liberation is just part of the game of separation--the need to 'know' what things are (which is impossible). I could say there is no liberation, or that everyone is actually already liberated, and they would both be right. I'm not worried about defining things, or proving that I'm 'enlightened' or something. That's part of what happened--all apparent 'meaning' is gone. It is seen clearly that there are no real 'objects' and that includes 'me' and 'others' (and 'trees' or 'cars' or what have you). Yet, there are all these 'shapes' and 'colors' and it sure is convenient if I'm hungry that I can tell the refrigerator from the garbage can. That doesn't make them 'real' though. Just convenient labels.

Roger Castillo's name keeps popping up in my conversations, so I thought I'd share more broadly. His pointers seemed to help my mind sort out thought patterns that were suffering and let them go. This is a 'bottoms-up' approach that blends well with traditional 'top-down' awareness teachings. This is just one example of his videos:

The thought to make videos has arisen, partly because it's part of the skill set I have (digital content creation), but the action hasn't happened yet. One reason might be that there are infinite things that could be said, so where to start? I think that the reason the satsang approach works well for so many teachers is that it's easier to respond to a finite question than to just sit and let words come out. Words do come out sometimes, but when that has happened I have not been on video. We'll see...

So any thought about what's happening is really not now/live--by the time you think it, that 'moment' is gone. However, I'd say it was close to 'live'. Like immediately after getting up to walk to another room there would be an awareness that I never decided to stand up. It just happened. At first, I saw this a lot at the gym. I would do one set of an exercise, and then rest a little. Then, spontaneously I would start the second set and for some reason it was easy to see that I never really said, "go" or anything. This may have happened thousands of times. It takes a lot to undo such a core belief. The challenge I think is that this goes completely against what we 'know' to be true, so the mind just doesn't go there. It's like, "I already figured out that I'm a separate person and those are separate people and there are all these objects everywhere. I don't need to look at it ever again." Our minds are kind of lazy, I guess. Somehow it was seen a lot here, and now it can't be unseen.

I'd like to answer your questions in reverse order because i think they answer better that way. '+' question: What I meant by 'got more serious' was when Leo's videos on enlightenment and non-duality were discovered. That sort of threw a load of firewood onto the smoldering interest that was already there, and I have a tendency to devour new things and really go all in on them. Anyway, there was a sort of clarity that wasn't there before. I guess I saw 'enlightenment' as possible for the first time (thus the gratitude to Leo). I had come pretty far already, and was actually much happier than before, so it seemed like the perfect next step. Original question: I was already meditating daily. I started that as part of personal development and watching Leo's videos--what I'll call "healing the character" (getting out of the 'hole' of suffering. getting more grounded and aware). The main practice that I did was meditate 45-60 minutes a day, every day. This at first was mindfulness/breathing meditation. Then when I learned about self inquiry I used Leo's guide and videos, I changed to meditating for 30 minutes and then doing self inquiry for about 30 minutes. I remember just sitting there and asking who am i and then trying to 'be' the answer. I really had no idea what I was doing, but I soon realized that I felt better after this than after the mindfulness meditation. So I switched to full self inquiry. It was right about then that I saw this video: This for me was the ticket. I had found my true nature/source or whatever you want to call it. For a minute, I thought I was going to be enlightened. It felt like it was so damn hard just to find it that surely that would be enough, right? Nope. Now it needs to come and stay. This changed my meditation to just finding source (let's just call it that for now) and holding on to it. About this time, I remember hearing that Ramana Maharshi had told someone to 'hold fast' to the feeling of 'I am'. So I did. At least as often and as long as I could. It was like exercise. It got easier to find, and easier to stay. But any real serious event, even a tense conversation, could snap me back to 'solid' and limited--back into the dream/Maya. There was a lot of this (Roger Castillo calls it the 'flip flop') and it was not fun to be honest. It made it very obvious though as to what was needed. We can be 'right' and we can 'know' things or we can be happy. Then at one point it became clear that practicing was trying/seeking. There was a lot of letting go in general along the way, and there was definitely some fear around letting go of my practice, but by then I'd learned to mostly go with my gut. So that was the end of practice, and eventually the end of 'trying' or imagining that i'm the 'doer' or 'thinker'. I'm not telling anyone to stop practicing, or prescribing any method. This is my experience and it might happen if you follow your heart/gut, and to not fear if it does. Eventually, everything will be let go of anyway (one way or another). Why not now? (so that was probably way more info than you needed, but it's what came out)

I can only answer from my perspective, so your mileage may vary. Anyway, here is how these things look to someone who is no longer in separation (you can call it enlightenment if you like but I'm not a fan of that word). Some of these things may happen and/or look different along the way (for example you may find yourself taking better care of your body, but that isn't a direct result of liberation). A massive reduction in the level of my own suffering (micro level suffering). Such as being annoyed, being bored, judgmental that make people depressed, neurotic, bitter etc. this may depend on how you label pain vs. suffering (see Roger Castillo's teachings), but suffering has completely vanished here. quick attempt at explaining: pain is biological, including anger, sadness, and more suffering is an added load and is psychological. it includes these emotions and their sub-categories Guilt Blame Pride Worry/Anxiety Expectation/Attachment to outcome Freedom from worrying, doubts, fear or anxiety. that is included in suffering. Gone. A permanent end to overthinking. Being able to just enjoy the present moment. thinking still happens, but there is no worry. that is part of suffering Immunity to heavy emotions like deep anger, sadness, deep loneliness. They will no longer affect you in the same way. same as above The end of addictive behaviours. Both heavy addictive behaviour and soft addictions. sort of. addiction is a label, a judgement. some things will go away, some won't. if one is physically addicted to something, that is unlikely to drop. attachment to pleasure, however--that goes away completely. If something pleasurable is happening, it can be enjoyed 100%. If it isn't happening, so what? The end of worrying about what people think of you. An end to abscessing over yourself. gone--part of what i would call suffering A permanent end to striving in life. "how to get more money, power, status, love" and obsessing about how to get these things. gone. there is nowhere to go, nothing to gain, and no one who cares. A stop to loneliness and neediness for approval or love, respect and other attachments. gone. there is no need for anything to happen, no concern for what others think. you can even be pleasant to them because you see they are only doing what they are doing. no one is inside of them controlling anything. you may as well care if the rain is angry at you. eliminate Neurosis. i guess so. things still happen, but there is no suffering about them. Take away a lot of stress from your life. yep. that would be suffering too Less need for sleep, and much more physical energy. Stop wasting energy on worrying and other neurotic behaviours. this does not affect the physical, though it may indirectly. Sleeping will happen, and there are no worrisome thoughts to keep you up at night, so it's possible you would sleep better. Enlightenment is the whole path, the journey that begins your real actualization. This totally opens you up to transform into what you truly want to become. I don't know what this means. I don't like the word, 'enlightenment' as no one ever gets enlightened. A way to deal with chronic pain. It will not remove pain, but it can change your relationship with it. It will be pain, but without a story attached to it. It is not 'my' pain. Puts you in touch with your body. you do not have a body. if anything, the sense of being or having a body disappears. A longer life and better health. i don't think this is related at all unless it's because of less stress. Deep self-acceptance and deep self-love. deep acceptance and love, yes. There is no 'self'. Enables true love. Powerful and authentic relationships (all relationships, friends, your boss, family etc.). What most people think of is love I would not call love. I would call it need and desire--both forms of suffering. The love that is here now shines like the sun for everyone and everything, with no condition. It is always there, full, whole, and complete. The deepest understanding of truth that a human being can get. actually the opposite. It's the realization that nothing can be known. Trying to understand will keep you in separation. Death without regrets (to BE more instead of DOING more). There is no fear of death--there really is no true fear of anything. For example, I was recently on a high-speed roller coaster going upside down and sideways and there was no fear. There was a kind of interest in the experience but if I had flown off into space there probably would just be a thought of, "Oh this is interesting. I wonder if I will die?" Better relationship towards society, the world and other human beings (human race). Yes, kind of. For one thing, it is seen that there is no 'correct' way to be in the world. I only see perfection, and every 'person' is valued at the same level, including me. It's hard to express what it looks like when there is no separation, but it's beautiful to me because there is no need to protect 'myself'. There is complete objectivity towards what I 'do' and therefore it is easy to identify and correct behaviors. You being enlightened greatly improves the world. The world actually does not need improvement--it is already perfect, that just can't be seen from a limited perspective. That being said, there is an 'always on' feeling of helping someone if they need it. That might just be me. There is still a personality and we get conditioned by life to have certain preferences. Those stay, but judgement does not. If nothing is good or bad, how can it be improved? It feels like the energy that is given off by someone who is liberated can somehow be sensed by others. Even on video. There is more to it than just the words. Life becomes satisfying to you again, more like the effortlessness of when you were a child. Living from a place of "being in the zone, no matter what". there is a lack of dissatisfaction, so in that sense things are satisfying. sitting in silence is no better or worse than watching a movie. boredom is no longer. there is a child-like quality to life when it is seen clearly that this is a mystery--completely and utterly. It can't be known, and it feels beautiful and perfect. Unconditional happiness and peace of mind. the happiness that is available is not the happiness of 'fun' or 'pleasure'. it is the happiness of peace of mind. permanent, unbroken peace of mind regardless of the circumstances. equanimity. I hope that is somewhat helpful or illuminating. It's just what came out.

While there can be a sort of 'getting it' intellectually, any attempt to know or understand what is happening will reinforce the idea of separation and an individual 'subject' who relates to 'objects'. Ultimately, "why" or "how" questions can't be answered. This can't be known. Infinity doesn't fit in a box. All distinctions are artificial and when used, they instantly separate reality into parts. The only real answer is, "Who cares?" And that works both ways: 1. It doesn't actually matter. 2. Who is the one who supposedly cares? (investigate)...

Good! Just keep going. You may benefit from Roger Castillo's pointers. His framework gives the mind a way to identify 'me-based' thoughts and eventually they slow down and then stop. Having the ability to rest in being/awareness/source is ultimately all that is needed, but Roger might help you come at it from another angle and it might speed things up.

I think we all start to suffer more as we get older. I had an idea that our coping mechanisms turn into neuroses and start to get in the way of life somewhere around our 40's but of course that's just an idea/story. Early on, I did therapy, positive thinking, affirmations, gratitude practice--all kinds of things that helped to quiet down the suffering, but they didn't eliminate it. Rupert Spira's yoga meditations helped tremendously where therapy couldn't. Therapy and other methods deal with the story, which is part of the illusion. The yoga meditations can remove energy without needing to deal with the story of it.

Yes, it was. It sounds like you are in a good place and can probably just relax and let it happen. Do you feel the nature of that awareness? When you are resting in it, how does it feel?

I think I answered that here, but let me know if that doesn't completely answer it for you and we'll take it further: (I'm not totally sure that link worked, but it's on page 1 of this thread)

Biological responses don't stop. Anger, sadness, frustration, etc. still arise, but they don't 'stick' to anything. They are just there, and then gone. It's so easy based on the stories we hear to think that we will become perfect people, responding in a perfect way to situations, or somehow be 'better'. What is revealed is that there is no 'better' and this is already perfect. We can accumulate beliefs on what enlightenment will look like, and how to 'get' it, and those beliefs can get in the way. In fact, believing anything to be true in and of itself is a big part of the problem.

I don't know. One thing that happens now is things are left to happen as they will, without planning or trying to think about 'what will happen'? In the moment, it would depend on the exact circumstances, and what will happen will happen. I can say that there is no fear of death. It's probably impossible to conceptualize, but death isn't really real. There is no one who was actually born or who actually dies. I almost died once, and it was rather pleasant once I gave up. That's actually a good metaphor for what happens with liberation. Once the ideas of being a 'person' in a 'world' who needs things to be 'happy' falls away, there is just what is and it feels comfortable, whole, and peaceful.

Sure. #1 was basically self inquiry. Self inquiry is not just for meditation. It can be done anywhere and everywhere. Watch your direct experience closely, and only refer to your direct experience. Who is doing _______? Did I decide to do that, or did it just happen? #4 - Rupert Spira's yoga meditations. His wife, Ellen Emmett does them too--I believe that is her main teaching. Try and see if they work for you. Here is one that I have done: He has two boxed sets of meditations. I have "Transparent Body, Luminous World" and that has my favorite track, "Kiss the Toad." That is a super powerful meditation for when life is not fun. It helped heal and release many tensions for me.

I can say that I am not distracted by thoughts involving time (past and future)--that is the realm of the separate 'me'. So I'm very present, but other than that no special powers or abilities are granted. It's surprising how little changes (but everything is totally different at the same time). The same basic thoughts and feelings and actions are there, but without anyone invested in them. I'm not sure how helpful concentration is on its own, really. It felt like the single-minded determination was helpful here, but it's hard to say. The illusion is so convincing and so enticing that concentrating on self inquiry and direct experience should be helpful in seeing through the illusion. Still, someone could stumble upon an awakening (for example, I met a woman who at 6 years old tried to think about what 'nothing' was and had an awakening experience). I highly advise seekers to follow their gut. It's good to 'get' nonduality intellectually (if that's part of your path), but your flow, your path, is sort of given to you through your 'heart'. It's intuitive. In a way, liberation is about authenticity--following the natural impulses and thoughts that arise, and not the ones that we 'think'--those are shoulds and shouldn'ts and are part of the illusion. Mind itself is not the problem, but some ways of thinking are the problem and it can be hard to separate them. Try to be sensitive to your intuition--your path could be completely different and it's all good.

So this was actually a very confusing point for me, probably because of the early Zen reading/study I did. In Zen, it seemed like monks were always getting instantly enlightened, so that's what I expected. However, that isn't how it works. First, there is what could be called, 'Awakening'. These are glimpses of source/nonduality/reality (it has no name, really). These are spontaneous, "wow!" moments that can last hours or days or weeks. They are like sneak peeks and for me usually came while inquiring but not always. For example, this is what happened to Eckhart Tolle when he questioned whether there were two of himself. He was not 'enlightened' at that point. Many people confuse awakenings with liberation. Then there is what could be called realization (these stages are just concepts)--more of an intellectual 'understanding' of what is happening. Finally, there is liberation--at some point, enough things fall away that you look back and see that there is no longer a sense of "I", or fear, or suffering, or whatever. Liberation is all loss--nothing is gained. It's like the ending of a headache. You're not really sure when it ended, but you know your head doesn't hurt any longer. The main meditation I did was simply abiding as awareness. Then I started abiding as awareness outside of meditation (very slowly at first--like 2 seconds at a time--but it gets 'easier'), and after about a year or more of doing that, it became permanent. The connection to source is always there. In the process, the sense of self dissolved. Self inquiry or self abidance (also called 'self remembrance') is like poking a fire with a stick. The stick is the sense of separation and it dissolves into the fire. It just takes what seems like forever.

Thank you, Leo. I'm sure that you'll be surprised some day how it's the biggest nothing there is. It's a total non-happening. It's the most ordinary extraordinary event, and no one cares. Liberation is certainly highly under-reported because when it happens there is no one left to think it's even worth mentioning. There was a lot of gratitude for you and always a desire to help others. So many do not want to hear about non-duality. As I'm sure you've seen, it's a very threatening message. If anyone reading this is drawn to it, I say relax because you are one of the few, and the anti-virus is already in the system. You made it on the train, so-to-speak. Now just find a seat--your job is done. Let life take over. Peace, Ken PS - Rumi is beautiful: "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass the world is too full to talk about."

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Tony Parsons. He puts it so well--all I can do is nod and agree. This probably doesn't really make a lot of sense, but hopefully someday you will see it does. Question: You make a distinction between awakening and liberation. Tony: In liberation there no longer is a sense of there being a separate individual. Liberation is the complete end of the sense of separation. But there’s still a body mind organism that has conditioned memories, and has responses and preferences. That’s aliveness. That goes on. Q. Emotions still keep popping up. Oh absolutely. Anything can happen. Nothing is denied. The difference between the liberated one, or rather: liberation, and individuality is that when an emotion like anger arises, it just arises for no one, but all the time there’s an individual who thinks it’s his anger; that happening to him, that he owns it. In individuality there’s always an ownership of everything. In liberation there’s no one that owns the anger, but still the anger can arise, as it did before for no one. In individuality the so-called person keeps thinking it’s happening to him. In liberation it’s simply anger, happening to no one. Q. Isn’t there still a subtle duality present then, because on the one side there is ego-related anger, and on the other hand there’s something witnessing this. Well, that’s how it feels, but in liberation there is no witness. That’s over. In awakening there can be a witness, and even before awakening there can be a witness, but in liberation there isn’t even something that is aware of manifestation. There is just being, whatever is. Q. And this is not comprehensible . . . Tony: No, it’s a total mystery. And of course it goes against most teachings, which teach that in enlightenment there is no anger, there is no thinking. This is ignorance. This is an idea of what perfection should look like. In liberation, nothing is denied. Q. Everything is perfect. Tony: Everything is perfect, but it isn’t happening to anyone any longer.”

That is a good question. In a way, it took me about 50 years (my whole life), but I know that isn't what you are looking for. From the time it felt like I got 'serious' it was only maybe two or three years. I think I had a lot of things going in my favor, it's hard to say what really 'makes' things happen as this is all so spontaneous, and in the end things like 'cause and effect' are seen as just part of the dream. Anyway, I was laser-focused on this (like I always have been with new stuff)--it was pretty much the only thing I did aside from work and family. It was the only thing that mattered and between meditation, reading, and watching videos I probably averaged about 4 hours a day of activity. This all slowed down toward the end. Seeking sort of slowed down and eventually stopped. Daily meditation stopped at one point (it felt right at the time--follow your heart when doing this as it's the type of thing that can also increase egoic/self thoughts). I will still sit and meditate sometimes, but only when that feeling arises.