Forestluv

A form of selfishness on the flip side: wealthy people in California are offering to donate $25,000+ to skip the line and get the vaccine shot now.

Shot and stage fright anxiety has nothing to do with vaccine safety and effectiveness. Yet the optics of this is the exact opposite of the intention.

Sometimes I find words problematic, since any word I use is not another word.

I would also be mindful that when pushed far, pain can have consequences. During SDS-like sessions of yin yoga, I’ve gone so deep into pain that it was no longer pain. It was energy I could transform in many ways. This was great in one context because it revealed a new area of awareness, yet this came at the cost of another area of awareness. I lost track of pain meaning and time. I went waaay too deep into stretches for way too long and ended up injuring myself. I realized I could tare ligaments and herniate vertebrae discs without even knowing it, because the intense pain was being transformed into a warm chocolately syrup of swirling energy.

Mindset is one component of an integrated whole of experience. I f I am training to run a marathon and each day I run 1hr and stretch 30min. it will influence my experience of mind and body - yet how that experience manifests is related to many factors. If I have closed, negative mindset it will be experienced differently than if I have an open, positive mindset.

Haven’t you ever been in a flow state of being? For example, how one interacts with nature, creativity or humor. It flows. It just feels like “me”. Then . . . all sorts of stuff is added onto it “I am this. I’m good at this. I do this too much. I’m better than him at this. This is ego. I need to get rid of this part of me and work on this part of me. If my parents hadn’t done xyz, I wouldn’t have my issues.” and on and on. Those add ons ruin the beingness of the flow. It’s easier to see in children before they develop sophisticated egos with lots of layers.

Your good will is appreciated ? ?

Individual interests are one factor, yet individual and societies are linked. No individual is in their own bubble completely separate from the society the live. For example, some Los Angeles hospitals are now at fully capacity. There are no beds left. That affects every individual in the community. Any individual that gets sick and needs a bed is screwed. People that get into accidents, strokes, heart attacks, cancer etc. The city can no longer provide health care for the community because they are overwhelmed with covid patients. That impacts every single individual in the community. Communities are individuals linked together. Imagine one of your family members had a sudden illness - a car accident or heart attack. And there were no hospital beds available.

I also imagine that blaming health issues on the vaccine will be common. In addition to the large scale of the vaccination, there is also a large scale anti-van on social media. I imagine there will be lots of grifters, conspiracy theories, misinformation and entire networks on social media blaming health issues on the vaccine. There will be tons of conspiracies about how the Biden administration, MSM and Bill Gates are suppressing “facts” about vaccine side effects. Unfortunately, this will create it’s own psychosomatic health issues.

@SamC It could be all sorts of things. Tinnitus has many different forms of manifestations. Is the ringing something you want to continue and explore in your life?

Pathogens have range of contagiousness and severity. The healthiest humans don’t stand a chance against the deadliest pathogens. It would be like putting a human up against a grizzly bear. No chance. Look at the rabies virus. This virus evolved to evade the immune system and enter the Central Nervous System, which has virtually no defense. If this virus gets in the body, it’s game over. The human gets severely ill, goes insane and dies within 10 days. It would be a incorrect to think that as long as I have a healthy mind-body, I don’t need to worry about that raccoon foaming at the mouth from biting me. It’s best to run like hell and get a gun. Yet that is at the extreme end. Other pathogens, like coronavirus aren’t nearly as severe. Here, a combination of having a healthy mind-body, combined with mitigation efforts are best. If there is a rabies epidemic, it doesn't seem fair to criticize the rabies control team. Sure, general health practices are important, yet that isnt the role of the rabies control team. Viral mitigation efforts do reduce viral spread and impact. They can get the Ro under 1.0 and under control. Look at New Zealand. The entire country came together with mitigation and they are now covid-free and re-opened. Ir look at Kansas U.S.A. Half the counties decided to have voluntary mitigation (which most did not follow) and half the counties had mandatory mitigation. The virus spread like wildfire in counties without mitigation and and decreased in counties with mitigation. Yet this doesn’t mean every mitigation policy is effective. Telling people to wear a mask in the shower would not be an effective strategy. There are a variety of health concerns in so society. Viruses, obesity, stress, trauma. Sure there are neglected illnesses that ate worthy of more attention. How we use our resources is an important question in public heath. About 80% of global resources go toward illnesses that only affect 20% of the worlds population. As well, governments are engaged and in all sorts of exploitation for profit. Coca Cola is has most of Central / South America addicted to high fructose corn syrup and controls markets through unethical asymmetric power dynamics. Yet these are separate issues than addressing covid. I agree that more attention and light should be directed at these health concerns and perhaps there is too much attention on covid, yet imo it’s not fair to say mitigation efforts are stupid and ineffective. This mentality is making it harder to mitigate covid. The virus life cycle doesn’t care what people think of masks, social distancing, ppe, economic collapse etc. The viral contagion increases with: high density humans, maskless, indoors, poor ventilation. If all humans were able to sit still 20ft+ apart for two weeks, the virus would be eradicated. This isnt feasible for humans, yet mitigation does reduce the contagion. As a society, we need to establish what extent of mitigation is feasible. In New Zealand and parts of Australia, they reached very high, effective levels of mitigation because everyone came together and mitigated. And they had very strong leadership from the top that gave accurate information, clear guidelines and prevented misinformation. Yet in places like the U.S., there is a misinformation rampant including from the top, massive numbers of people are misinformed, sucked into conspiracy theories and have deep mistrust of scientists, experts, media and government. And there is an intense libertarian streak of “you’re not the boss of me!”, that they will rebel against any mitigation effort, including something as simple as wearing a mask and socially distancing in a grocery store. This is the opposite scenario as New Zealand.

There are many variables. Having a well-rounded healthy lifestyle of diet, exercise, meditation, social interactions, low stress can allow for a healthy immune system - yet there are also other factors. If you put a group of the super healthy people in a stadium and real smallpox, they WILL get ill. Very ill. And it will spread through the that population. Having a healthy mind and body is a subset of variables related to illness at individual and social levels. I the context of the corona virus, promoting a healthy lifestyle and anti-viral mitigation efforts are both helpful. There are plenty of places the government tries to promote healthy lifestyle behaviors, yet it’s in the background and can’t penetrate noise. The average consciousness of society just isn’t there yet. Efforts to educate the public about healthy diets is drowned out by addictions to high fructose, the pleasure and convenience of McDonalds and hyper capitalism placing profits o er health. And it’s not just with our own bodies. Look at how we treat other animals and the environment.

I like this as a practical model. Sensations, feelings, thoughts can help the mind and body navigate. It can have the essence of a “me” character. This can come in handy for many situations, yet I’ve noticed the mind can become so immersed / attached / identified to the “character” that there is only the character and detached awareness is lost. Unfortunately, many minds get locked into this mind state all day, with at best very brief detached glimpses. As others have said, trying to get detach and get space for awareness can be helpful - such as a meditation retreat. Or psychedelics can be a radical disruptor, yet can be difficult to maintain and stabilize. Teachers are helpful in that they can be a form of awareness for a mind that has very little awareness power. At intermediate “stages”, it can feel like “going in and out” character attachment / identification, which can feel confusing, unstable and uncomfortable. Yet with practice, letting go, detachment and return to mindfulness becomes more natural. There are many “waking up” moments throughout the day and stretches of mindfulneess. A sense of ‘forgetting’ and ‘remembering’ - and the ‘place’ if remembering has some grounding to it. There can also be background awareness even when the mind is investing attention in character phenomena. This is just one model that I find helpful. There are many other models and “no model” models that also have truth to them.

I didn’t say your statement was 100% false. Rather, it is so hyperbolic and dismissive of nuances that it is a distorted representation. We could say that cats are highly dangerous vectors of disease transmission. This is is not 100% false, yet is overly hyperbolic and dismissive of nuances to the point it becomes a misrepresentation. Yes, there are risks associated with vaccines, yet your portrayal is overly hyperbolic and dismissive. There comes a point when hyperbolism goes over the line and becomes misleading and misrepresentative. For example, the statement that vaccines are dangerous because they contain the covid disease is hyper simplified, partially inaccurate and highly misleading.

It’s the same thing. Absolute = “There is Deeper”. We create difference and then there appears to be a contradiction between same and different. The journey is the destination.

This is a misrepresentation of a science research published by Oxford Academic in late September. The research did not address test accuracy, it addressed the optimal number of PCR cycles to set as a contagion threshold for mandatory quarantines. The PCR tests are about 95% accurate and the authors spoke out about how their research was being misrepresented by the statement the tests are only 3% accurate. “The statement is false”, answers Vasco Barreto, a researcher at the Center for the Study of Chronic Diseases (Cedoc) of the Faculty of Medical Sciences of the Universidade Nova de Lisboa, who considers “irresponsibility” the way two magistrates of a higher court put into practice causes a scientifically validated diagnostic instrument. “PCR tests have a specificity and sensitivity greater than 95%. That is, in the overwhelming majority of cases they detect the virus that causes covid-19 ”. This is indicated in a scientific article that is cited in the judgment, but that is read “completely wrong” by the magistrates, according to Germano de Sousa, former President of the Ordem dos Médicos and owner of a network of laboratories. At stake is a study (“Correlation between 3790 qPCR positives samples and positive cell cultures including 1941 SARS-CoV-2 isolates”) Whose results were published by Oxford Academic in late September. The research investigated where to set threshold viral levels for risk of contagiousness, not the accuracy of tests “The proportion of samples that were no longer able to infect cells maintained in culture in the laboratory increased with the increase in the number of cycles required to obtain a positive signal. This is because after our body controls the infection there are fragments of the virus’s genetic material that persist and decrease over days, when the individual no longer poses a danger to others, ”explains Vasco Barreto. Conclusions like these have helped health authorities in different countries to reduce mandatory quarantine periods for those infected and to dispense with a negative test to “discharge” a patient. When making covid statements, please check your sources and interpretations so we can maintain high quality standards on the forum. Posting covid misinformation or misrepresentations on the forum is against the guidelines.

@Loving Radiance Getting into this nitty-gritty, I would take a step back, inquire and observe “what is a thought?”. I assumed I knew what thoughts until I spent time sitting with awareness and attention on “thoughts”.

You had asked about functionality and I was describing functionality living as a human in society, not social acceptance or karma. When my consciousness is within areas often described as “nondual”, the mind and body is not highly functional in a human context. I can walk through nature and perhaps make a sandwich, yet I’m not in a mental space to be functional in a complex business meeting in which we are evaluating our roles and the impact of inter-departmental policies on personnel. In that context, there needs to be attention and assumption of “things” to function. If the mind is so far detached, I’d just sit there observing appearances as if I were watching a night sky. I may melt with others as one and laugh as I make everyone’s mouths move to create silly sounds. To be functional, I need to be aware that there is a plot and roles being played as if I was participating in a movie. Yet the other extreme of using a highly personalized filter reduces functionality. Yet this depends on how one defines “no self” and “nondual”. My sense is you are asking for more practical input than theory on terms.

In terms of functionality, My experience is that the higher functionality needed, the more identification into a character. When there is near complete detachment, I’m not very functional. A low level of identification with simple tasks and a high level with complex tasks. When I’m at work engaged in complex inter-personal interactions I feel more of the character to be able to function. Then later, that can dissolve. I’ve heard some talk about complete, permanent dissolution of person or a constant awareness observing, yet that not my experience when trying to function in complex societal situations. And I also try to be kind to the mind and body, trying to reduce unnecessary inner criticism, regret, worry, inner turmoil and do some healthy things.

@James123 Thanks for sharing “your” insights with “us” ?

Leo is taking a month long break https://www.actualized.org/insights/taking-a-break-2020

I would say it depends on the construct of ‘thoughts’ and ‘differences’. There are “thoughtless” realms with “differences”, yet not quite the same as traditional constructs of “thoughts” and “differences”. There are “spaces” in which “feelings”, “intuition”, “energetics” do the “thinking” of “discernment”. Sometimes “I” walk in nature and a “thought” won’t arise for 20min or so. It’s a “different” mode of beingness, yet there is still a form of “thinking” and “differences” appearing. It’s just a “different” way of relating without “thoughts”. Yet even “thoughts” are no longer “thoughts”. That’s the best way “I” can express “my” “experience”. Yet perhaps some “things” cannot be communicated. “I” would need to put every word in “ “. Almost like the right brain of imagination and creativity trying to communicate through the left brain of language and symbolism. And yes, there is no “right brain” or “left brain” that “exists”.

In this context, sure It seems a lot of humans have problematic relationships with thoughts. There are other relationships in which thoughts aren’t “thought-ish”, they merge and dance with feelings, intuition, empathy, energetic. Like a musical band when all the instruments merge together to create a song. Sometimes it’s nice to have a guitar in the song, sometimes is nice to leave it out. Sometimes guitar solos are nice, other times the guitar in the background is nice. Sometimes we let go of attention to the guitar and become aware of the whole song. . . . Yet I often see people have difficulties associated with thoughts. That wasn’t my impression of how you were describing psychedelics. It seemed like there were subconscious referential experiences. For example, you weren’t describing how to scuba dive in the Great Barrier Reef of Australia while knitting a sweater. If every thought is identical then the post you wrote about how psychedelics can be a distraction to awakening would be identical to a post describing how to prepare a tuna fish sandwich. In one context this is true, yet not in another context. And this is dependent upon what a “thought” is. Thoughts are one form of difference creation. There are many forms of difference. Rabbits create “differences” without thoughts. Yet relative to thinking, these wouldn’t count as “differences”. In some contexts, there is no such *thing* as a thought. There are spaces in which “thoughts” are no longer “thoughts”, they are inter-connected with “feelings”, “emotions”, “intuition”, “images”, “objects” etc. It would be like observing a painting and then trying to separate out all the colors and say this color is a “thought” and doesn’t belong in the painting. Yet on the human level, so-called thoughts can be problematic and cause a lot of mind-body distress. Yes, but not in the way you seem to be defining “difference” and “state of consciousness” Yes, but not in the construct you’ve created of “thought” and “difference”. If we create a thing called a “thought”, it is only one form of difference. There are “thoughtless” spaces of difference, yet it’s not a “thought difference”, so in your construct it wouldn’t qualify as a “difference”. It would be like removing the guitar player and saying there is no longer a difference between the guitar player and trumpet player. Of course not, we just removed the the guitar player. Likewise, if we remove “thoughts” there won’t be “thought-based” differences. If there is no naming and labeling “the” thoughts, thoughts are no longer “thoughts”. They are what we create them to be. And everything I’ve written here is “wrong” from another “perspective”.

To me, it looks like you are seeking an event in which something happens. Like going to the dentist and getting a root canal. By “bridging the gap”, I mean more of a development or integration. For example, perhaps during a trip the inter-relatedness between intuition, thought and object reality is revealed - yet it is out of reach at my current baseline level. A mini-dose can shorten the distance so it is within reach. Sorta like learning Spanish in which a native speaking is talking waaay too fast and I can’t catch any of it. If she slows down, it “bridges the gap” between non-understanding and understanding - which allows for partial understanding, learning and growth. In general, I would say my maximum growth progress occurs with about 70% of “getting it” and 30% beyond my current level.

In the context of no mind, there is no where or what of mind. The construct of “mind” is a model that is useful in some contexts. I like explorations of no mind as well as explorations of mind. It depends on how we define “stopped”, “permanently”, “monkey mind” and “thought”. Thera are many forms we could create. For example, there are a dozen forms of “monkey mind” we could discuss. There is also wandering mind. And various levels of brightness. And there is also no mind. In the most common usage of these terms, I would say questioning has transformed. Rather than questions appearing with seeking energy to figure out an answer, questions appear more for curiosity of exploration - without expectation for an answer. For example, while hiking in nature the question may arise “How is this a microcosm of a macrocosm?”. That can plant a seed for all sorts of appearances. The solar system may be revealed in a blade of grass. . . Yet it’s not like there is an expectation or desire to have some definitive answer by the end of the hike. Or being in a House of Mirrors and asking “which way is right?”. And then laughing and exploring the house. I observe similar and agree it is helpful. There can be subconscious experiential bias without conscious awareness it. I may think “I don’t exist. Experiences don’t exist. Experiences only arise now”. Yet then I speak as if I had experiences that existed. This is being immersed in content without the awareness of context. I’m not saying it’s good or bad to speak as if “I had experiences”, I’m referring to the awareness of it happening. I often speak as if I’ve had experiences and sometimes I zoom into that content, “forget” and subconsciously believe it’s “my experience”. Similar to staring at a candle and becoming so immersed in the content of the candle that there is forgetting that there is a more expansive space in which the candle resides. You mentioned being mesmerized by psychedelic phenomena. There is also being mesmerized by non-psychedelic phenomena. In my view it has immense value. Yet there is also lot of variability with psychedelics. I think you are pointing to a common dynamic and trap people have with psychedelics. Yet there are other contexts as well. There are areas in which psychedelic “wonderland” and sober “non-wonderland” break down. The “two worlds” can dance and merge together. If I enter a thoughtless flow of Nowness during yoga, is that an independent “sober” arising or is it related to a 5-meo trip I had last month? Without that 5-meo trip, would that thoughtless flow of Nowness arise? And what if I was on a micro dose of 10ug LSD during the yoga - does it still count as a thoughtless flow of Nowness? Or do we discredit it because there are traces of psychedelic molecules in the body? I’ve connected with sober people as if we were tripping and I paused to ask myself “Did I take a mini-dose this morning? Am I having a mild flashback?” When I am running, sometimes it feels like a low dose of psychedelics. When I am sitting on a low dose of psychedelics, sometimes it feels like I am running. Lucid dreams, sober reality and psychedelic “wonderlands” can melt together. How do we determine what counts as “psychedelic” and “non-psychedelic?”. Yet these are nuances into the “nitty gritty”. In another context, it’s common for seekers to create “two worlds” of psychedelic and non-psychedelic - and in some respects that’s true. If I took 100ug of LSD right now, conscious state would be transformed in some respects. In a practical sense, psychedelics can be a distraction and counter-productive to a goal. This is in the context of progress toward a thing. I may relate to cats as being dangerous and try to help people form the risks of cats. This may be colored by my experience with cats. Perhaps I got scratched by nasty cats and the wounds got infected. As well, there are environments in which cats are dangerous. There are environments with feral cats that cause disease. I may start noticing all the people that have issues with cats. I can become immersed in this content and lose awareness of greater context that there are many other manifestations of cats.