Forestluv

For me, the anxiety is generally about losing control and fear of what “could” happen if I lost control. (I could do something harmful! I could be going insane!). Sometimes there is anxiety that I can’t make it stop. Other trips there is little or no anxiety. With experience, letting go and surrendering is getting easier. For some it comes naturally, but not for me.

I’ve used about eight different forms. ofc. . . still the ego playing control games. Psychedelics will remove all that.

@SFRL That analogy suggests that psychedelics are unnatural and unhealthy. which is not my experience. The counter analogy would be: a person is ill due to a vitamin deficiency. They could eat a vegetable that provides that nutrient and make rapid progress toward health. Or they couuld spend the next 20 years in illness trying to figure out how to synthesize the vitamin themself. @Elephant This sounds like an ego wanting to control a trip experience. I can relate. My ego’s most effective tool is fear. It produces scary images of what “could” happen if I trip. For me, not the best mindset heading into a trip. If my ego is trying to maintain control before the trip even starts, it’s gonna be a rough ride. . . Ego dissolution aint easy. My ego doesn’t want to let go and surrender. My trips have included anxiety, fear and insanity as well as beauty, liberation, insight and awe. A comprimise you could make with your ego is to do a mini dose. You will get a new perspective and the ego will likely still feel in control. Yet, I predict the ego will use scare tactics against this option as well

This sounds like an ego wanting to control a trip experience. I can relate. My ego’s most effective tool is fear. It produces scary images of what “could” happen if I trip. For me, not the best mindset heading into a trip. If my ego is trying to maintain control before the trip even starts, it’s gonna be a rough ride. . . Ego dissolution aint easy. My ego doesn’t want to let go and surrender. My trips have included anxiety, fear and insanity as well as beauty, liberation, insight and awe. A comprimise you could make with your ego is to do a mini dose. You will get a new perspective and the ego will likely still feel in control. Yet, I predict the ego will use scare tactics against this option as well

I just watched the below video and feel stuck. I know concepts aren't "it". Yet, my mind is wired for this concept, so perhaps removing a concept might help. During the first 7 minutes a woman asks if there is an outside world. She says her seeing, hearing and touching indicate there are objects outside of herself. To me, Rupert seems to offer two possibilities: 1) People are individuals. Each person receives information through sight, sound and touch that there are objects and a world outside themselves. Each person confirms this perspective/reality with each other. 2) There is a single shared higher consciousness. There is one "program" that is "downloaded" into minds and we therefore perceive similarly. He then asks "What are you going to believe: your own experience or what you have been told by Western civilization?". The thing is, 99% of my life experience seems aligned with #1. There are objects outside of me. It is the rare "glimpses" of experience that seem aligned with option #2. Rupert makes the point that we are conditioned for #1 our whole life and it's challenging to free ourselves from it. An analogy that I think may help me: Everything within a dream is part of a single higher consciousness. There are many people, animals, objects etc. that appear to be separate, yet they are all within the dream (higher state of consciousness).

Yea well I’m gonna figure this whole thing out and give the best fuckin’ Ted Talk ever!!

@Nahm I love that painting - what is the name? And where is the clock? Am I missing something?

So people consumed with selfish, resentful, hateful, fearful and cynical thoughts are on a higher consciousness level?

Hmmm, perhaps it matters how we define "I" and "born".

So perceiving all as one or as separate objects are both possible? You can shift your perspective to one or the other? Sometimes I feel like I'm flipping between dual and nondual perspectives. Like they are two different languages.

Right. That gets at what is the "source" of the seeing and feeling. One could say the brain and physical body sees and feels by processing external information, which is consistent with option 2.

I have experienced this several times. Ego dissolution / nondual experiences seem like insanity/psychosis to me. Yet doesn't that make sense? The perspective is so far away from the conventional, how could it not be considered psychosis?. . . I also thought of how many brilliant people have lived that have been categorized as insane.

@zunnyman To me, that sounds so warm and fuzzy. Who wouldn't want to leave a dingy prison and enter the wondrous land of Narnia? Yet, not my experience. More like my ego threatens to make me go insane or kill me before it surrenders relevance and control. It was all fun and games until my ego had control ripped away from it's clenched hands. Also, the two options you describe seem like the same path to me. Catch a glimpse of what lies beyond and gradually make progress toward it.

I know. One of my experiences was so terrifying and I realized the only way I could make it stop would be to kill my self. In the moment, I was thinking of my physical body death and latter thought about ego death. It really is a form of death for me. Over the last year anxiety, terror and insanity has been as much of the path as love, joy and freedom.

I see so many spiritual promises that love and joy are beneath the ego. My glimpses beyond the ego have been just "IS". Not good or bad. Not love or hate etc. Yet, I suppose love and joy attracts more people than "spend thousands of hours meditating and struggle through terror to realize everything just IS". I know I wouldn't have bought those books or attended those retreats. My ego likes mind candy.

IKR. When we are young, we spend so much time, effort and money accumulating things. Then when we are old we wanna get rid of and give away all that crap.

My mind loves entertaining juicy stuff like this. Yet to me, it’s just another happening and allow it to be without attachment or avoidance. And allow it to move on when it’s ready. . . Seems boring, I know.

For #2, I think sourcing is against forum TOC.

LSD alters serotonin signaling, yet I haven’t come across any evidence showing direct after effects to depression. Other chemicals, such as cocaine, clearly lower baseline dopamine levels causing depression and cravings. In the case of Post LSD depression, rather than “A” causes “B”, I would predict it’s many factors (including the lsd trip) coming together to cause the depression episode. Our brains love to search for something out of the ordinary and assign it causation.

To me, this sounds like an ego trying to maintain control and relevance. When confronted with surrending, one of my ego’s most effective strategies is to tap into anxiety and fear. It’s potent stuff. As my ego loses control, there may be disturbing thoughts or images of what could happen if I surrender to this mysterious “thing”. If it takes control, I could act on harmful impulses. I could run outside screaming profanities! I could send sex images to my boss and coworkers! That would be terrible! I better not surrender control to this awful “thing”. Yet, my glimpses have indicated the beyond ego is actually quite simple - yet my ego finds it unpalatable and boring - so creates all sorts of distractions and scary shit to discourage going there. For me, as uncomfortable as they are, I would treat the disturbing thoughts/feelings as another happening and just be with it.

For me, 150ug would have 1/2 the intensity he described. I’ve done Al-lad about four times. Its is the weakest of the lysergics I’ve tried. I need 300ug for moderate effects. For me, Al-lad is like watered down coffee.

Be aware and curious. Take a step outside of yourself and watch the episode as if it’s a movie scene. How fascinating it can be

“IT” for me is *being* without thought or talking. Does one need to think to express creativity through art?

This gets into the rarity of 100% certainty. Am I 100% certain that I was born? No. Would I give 100:1 odds and bet my life savings that I was born? Yes.

I’ve had a couple like that too, I think my ego was caught off guard