Forestluv

Yet all experiences nontheless are territory, no?

And that beautiful glimpse makes the terror and insanity aspects of the journey worth it.

I’ve needed tens of thousands of hours trying to figure it out to convince myself I can’t figure it out.

Over the years, I’ve had realizations that I thought “this is it!”. Or, at least a component of it. Yet, those realizations eventually fell to the wayside as a new teacher entered and I experienced new realizations, which eventualky fell to the wayside. . . For me, most of the thinking, conceptualization and patting myself on the back is a form of mental masterbation. My first *real* experiences came after decades of seeking in which every thought, belief and self identity was stripped away from me as I struggled like hell for control. They were the most terrifying, humbling and liberating experiences of my life. Full on insanity with temptations to kill myself - as this would be the only way to regain control and make it stop. I can’t relate to anyone skipping along joyfully as they sing a song of their knowledge and enlightenment. It’s so different than my direct experience.

@phoenix666 Most of the time I cycle through: "That was it", "Was that it"? and "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about".

Ahh, I suppose there comes a point where the distraction is over-powering.

@Joel3102 I hadn't considered depersonalization and ego-death as distinct spaces. Thanks. It raises something new for me to be aware of. In short, depersonalization involves detachment, while ego-death involves merging. So something like greater connection and empathy would be toward ego-death on the spectrum.

This type of thing drives part of me crazy. For me, letting go and surrendering is key. It may seem difficult here, yet this stimulus is FAR easier to surrender to than other stimuli. So, I would use it at times as an exercise of surrender. (I would also try to create a quiet space as well).

@Pure Imagination I've spent so much time creating definitions, concepts, parts. Searching for that "something". . . No, that's not it. Maybe this. Not that either. . . Perhaps it's a good exercise. . . Yet, what happens when all those thoughts and concepts get blown away? What is left? And what happens when the thoughts and concepts reappear? Are they within what was left or distinct from what was left? What if it's all "you". That every thought "IS". That's all. No more or less "IS" than any other thought?

@HII To me, it sounds like you are replaying a story over and over, reinforcing the belief that the illusionary self is real. You can let go of all those identity stories. . . and you do. I imagine there are times in life you are so immersed in an activity that you lose the sense of self. Perhaps while playing video games, or playing soccer or during sex. . . Then afterwards, the story of who "I am" starts up again. "Hmmm, that must mean I am "X" and because of "Y", I'm probably "Z". I do it too,

The only reality is right here, right now. Just be here and now. You are. Without attachments and judgments.

Based on my glimpses, "it" is not something that one "gets" or "becomes". There is nothing to attain or become. You are zero steps from enlightenment in this very moment. Nothing you can think or do is not "it".

I'm no expert and this is prolly enlightenment 101. . . The default setting for my mind is that enlightenment is a "thing", an "it", an "event", a "destination", a "process". My glimpses into nonduality is "it" just "is" - it's all and nothing of that (and this is coming from someone who for 20 years of my search hated when people talked liked that). As well, in my glimpses into nonduality - there is no "one" and "the same". Everything just "IS". There is "ISness" - I can't detach from it or escape from it - yet I can lose my awareness of it. When I am in a mindset attached to definitions, I'm generally in a low state of awareness. When I am chasing girls on Tinder, I am generally in a low state of awareness - this activity is also "IS" - the same "IS" as meditating at Machu Picchu, yet the chances of being that awareness of ISness is much lower when chasing girls on Tinder. For me, I have a higher chance by "getting struck" by awareness when I am not conceptualizing, attached to thought or distracted. Generally when I read or watch spiritual teachings, my mind is in "learning mode" with thought, concepts, curiosity etc. It's the teachings that break through that and stop me that are effective. For example, during Leo's latest video, I was watching very pensively. All of a sudden, he became very animated - waving his hands and saying with emotion something like "This is actual!! Right here!!! Me, doing this!! NOW, NOW!! THIS!!. . . ". It broke me out of my thinking and I had a glimpse. As well, Richard Spira relaxes my mind and gently guides me to a space where I might get struck by awareness. A few weeks ago, I was walking along a trail in nature and a big piece of fruit fell right in front of me. THUD!!" A glimpse. . . Another time a squirrel jumped on a log and started chattering loudly at me. A glimpse. . . And of course there are psychedelics. . .

@Leo Gura And within this dream, do you know why elephants paint their toenails red?

@Slade @Leo Gura I’ve also had dreams similiar to this. I was training to lucid dream and doing “reality checks” throught the day for weeks. One night, a reality check failed in a dream and I realized I was dreaming. I was concious and aware I was in a dream! I started walking around thinking this is so fucking cool! I got so excited, I started waking up. I thought “Noooooo!!!!” and tried to reenter the dream, yet woke up.

For me, a nice strong trip demolishes these types of beliefs and being right / wrong. Yet is also terrifying when struggling to hold on.

@Ryan_047 This insight was very difficult for my self to accept. I rationalized for years trying to find some way to integrate meaning into life. The concept of meaning is constructed by my mind. Yet, my direct experience includes what feels like “meaning”. Why not be aware of this and experience it?

@egolessI'm no expert, yet my sense is there is no "it". For me, I easily get distracted and conceptualization of enlightenment is a distraction. That is one reason psychedelics are an effective tool for me.

I don't know. To me, there seems to be a concept of an "it", "there" or "event" going on here. My mind loves to conceptualize or search for "it", travel "there" and hopes to have the "event". Yet there is no separation of an "it" or another place of a "there" or no experience of an "event".

@egoless I've only had some glimpses of "it". Yet, "it's" not a "something" I find or become aware of. My sense from these glimpses is that there is nothing to look for. There is no thing. There is no event. There is no revelation. There is no "Ah-Ha!" moment. I've likely experienced "it" before and never even knew it.

There is no lightening. To me, this seems like a perspective in which there is "something" that one "gets".

Last Saturday, I went on a date. I arrived at her house and we sat on her couch chatting for about 20min (before heading out to a Halloween party). I experienced a mild feeling of discomfort. There was a touch of first date jitters and much of the conversation involved learning about "who we are". In addition to the uncertainty of a first date, she was the first woman of an ethnicity that I have dated. I've felt this type of uneasiness in other types of situations. I lived in South America for two months last summer and immersed myself deeply into latin-american culture - several times I experienced a sense of feeling out of place and uncomfortable. Yet, these spaces are good for me because they can reveal old beliefs as being bullshit, break down barriers and open my mind for expansion and deeper connection with others. I told her that I was at the edge of my comfort zone, yet it was good because that is where I grow. She asked if "this was ok", motioning to the two of us. I said yes, and reinforced that this is a good place that I seek to experience. She was pretty much like "cool" and off we went. We went out to a couple Halloween parties and then back to her place. I'm not a "player" and have no "game". I just tried to let go, just be and allow events to happen. During conversation, my mindset included being curious and intrigued, having opinions and wanting to tell stories. (I generally feel comfortable in my head). There seemed to be some rich areas of conversation. We have some overlap, yet much of our experience is different. I'm curious how her experience has shaped her. As well, there were aspects of a cultural vibe that was unique to that which I have been exposed to most of my life. I found that very appealing. It was similar to what I experience in South America, yet another flavor. During conversation and physical moments, I didn't experience a strong sense of separation, it was generally at a basal level. Over the last year, I've noticed my separate sense of self has been reduced and at times I have felt "one" with my environment. For me, this seems much more likely solo in nature than during social interactions. Language and conversation are inherently dualistic. That's fine and I like that perspective and experience. . . Yet, there were physical moments we shared where the dualism seemed low. There wasn't a strong sense of "me" and "her". There seemed to be a shared energy that just flowed and moved and I didn't have a sense of where I stopped and she began. Those moments were discontinuous "glimpses" since thoughts and talking arose intermittently. I've only had a few glimpses into nonduality over the last five months. I can't explain it, yet it seems in the same realm as what others along the path have conveyed. Sometimes this path has moments of "oneness". Yet ironically, there are also moments of "aloneness". Could these both be of the same consciousness? Similar to how "It" is both nothing and everything?

Yep, I can conceptualize all day in my office. Yet like you, I also have a desire for meaningful connection. In terms of science, one of my challenges is connecting to students and conveying concepts. I'm also very disorganized which makes it more challenging. I started off as a business major and changed. In hindsight, very much due to my introverted nature. Lately, I am becoming aware of my thoughts and behavior during conversation. When it's someone that seems surface, I often just do the standard "small talk". I get bored and I'm not too engaged. When it seems like someone who has depth, I tend to talk a lot. She may share an experience and I jumped in about how I experienced something similar, the insight, and start sharing one of my "deeper" experiences. Then lots of concepts. It's like part of me gets excited to connect at a deeper level and I go overboard. I often leave feeling like I did a lot of expressing and very little connecting.

Do you think a 4 day solo retreat is worthwhile? I suppose it's better than nothing, yet I'm curious if it is sufficient to get enter a space beyond my conditioned external reality and perspective.

I am a solid INTP and a science educator. Like you predicted I am not a leader. I do some things in the classroom and lab very well, yet leading/managing is not one of them. And I can relate with the challenge of deep introspection and forming deep connections with others.