Forestluv

@onacloudynight I see. I’m uncertain what I would do. I’d likely try to connect with someone trained that I trusted. I’m very cautious and try to avoid medication. If I was pressed, I’d try the most mild one at the lowest dose. Once one starts with medication, I question how easy it is to get off. I had a gf that got on meds to get through a rough patch and had a hell of a time getting off. Like years trying. Yet, I’ve also thrown caution to the wind and have done a variety of strong psychedelics.

@onacloudynight I’m not aware of any medical professionals on the forum, so I would recommend taking advice here with a grain of salt. My personal view from experience is that western doctors are too quick to diagnose and try to fix with medication, which can lead to an ongoing cycle of medications that can ultimately be difficult to become free of. For me, psychiatrists and medication would be too big of a big jump to start. If I felt the need for professional help, I would first see a counselor and build a trust relationship. IME counselors with an Msw are more holistic and open-minded to various treatment options - including things like introspection, journaling, yoga, lifestyle changes as well as medication. I’ve found psychologists can be trained deeper, yet narrower in a school of thought. Both couselors and psycholgists work under strict confidentiality laws. You can be *crazy* with them. As long as you are not a threat to kill yourself or others, your craziness won’t leave the office.

I know someone who is diagnosed as bipolar and off her medication she became a threat to seriously harm herself and others. She is much more stable on her new med. There are neurological pathologies that are not just labels.

5-meo-dmt 20mg and 28mg. I've tripped about 30 times with various psychedelics. A few weeks ago, I did 12mg of 5-meo-dmt which felt comfortable. Last week at 20mg, the experience was similar to 12mg. A type of stoned, sublime feeling. 28hrs later, I bumped it up to 28mg. A similar experience as those before. There was awareness and I was completely comfortable. I'm not sure how to describe the sensations. It is completely different than any other psychedelic I've tried. (Well, maybe somewhat like San Pedro). It felt more like a powerful opiod - what I imagine heroine would feel like. There was a perspective that was completely different. Like I was a different person. A person with a higher consciousness level. Like going from green to yellow and being full-on yellow (or turquoise). 10min. in, my gf sent a few texts I noticed flicker on my phone. I was like "no way, not now". Yet, I noticed she was opening up about something. She is so guarded, she rarely opens up to the point of true vulnerability. The thing that caught my attention was she wrote that: "my life is overwhelming sumtimes. i'm jugglin a lot. And for sum reason, multiple blasts from my past have messaged abt gettin together". Well, I have strong feelings for this gal and this gets to the core of my insecurities and fear. I've been conditioned for monogamy and isn't gung-ho on monogamy (she wants "monogamish" - mostly monogamy with an occasional fling that does not disrupt the primary relationship). She has been in open relationships and has cheated in at least two monogamous relationships. She is still in touch with a few Ex BFs. We've agreed contact with Exes is fine as long as it's platonic. I'm interested in her perspective on dating and relationships, yet I am also conditioned. Due to her history and perspective, when Exes pop up it activates this lower consciousness level in me. I want to know whats going on. I want to know intentions. I see the other men as threats. I want to set up boundaries to protect our relationship, my territory. I get suspicious. I start making up stories in my head. Now. . .I can try to be aware of this and cognitively think at a higher level, yet my experience is at a lower level. Her text about multiple previous BFs wanting to get together would have ABSOLUTELY activated this lower level. However, on the 5-meo-dmt that level was NOT THERE. I wasn't suppressing or avoiding. That zone did NOT EXIST. What's more, my normal level of consciousness did not exist either. It was like I was some other person. A higher self. A higher love. There was this selfless caring I can't explain. For something that would have set my ego self on fire. Yet here, I was like a close friend of hers. I let her know I not only wanted to be her lover, but also a friend she could confide in. I let her know I was here and grounded. There was open space and I was totally fine if she entered the space or not. There was no pushing, pulling, steering, manipulating. Just silence and space. It was surreal. She decided to shift to a light topic about activities we did in high school. I was able to completely let go of the topic. Then, she texted "sumthin happened and you were the first person I wanted to tell but didn't. But it's a good sign still". Again. . . this would have triggered my "what going on?" brain. Ideas and stories would arise. I would have had to hold back not to be overly questioning as if she was on the witness stand. Yet, there was NONE of that zone. I simply responded "It's OK to tell or not to tell". And it was totally authentic. Again, a silent open space for her to enter if she wanted. She decided to change topics to celebrities we have met. Again, I was totally fine with letting go. There was no calculating at all. No thoughts of "I bet she is testing me. To see if she can trust me. I'll just play it cool". Rather, there was just an essence of being. A perspective of connection, love, caring for something or nothing. It's so hard to describe, yet so true. It felt like a higher evolved self. Towards the comedown, there is a realization that this is the next level of evolution for me. I didn't get a glimpse of it, I was immersed in it for 30min. And there was awareness that it had nothing to do with her and that I had to be willing and ok with losing her to reach this higher level. Loss = love. I didn't fight it and it was so clear that's just how it is. Even days later, something has changed in me. I still meander at different consciousness levels and have been tempted to ask her about those two texts. Yet after being exposed to that some type of higher evolved zone, it's like I can't go all the way back to my lowest zone. As if I was in zones 4-6 and couldn't understand people who talked in zone 7. Yet, after BEING zone 7, it's like I've shifted from zones 4-6 to zones 5-7. I don't know if that makes sense, I'm not quite sure how to explain it. I've read reports of people dissolving under 5-meo-dmt and how terrifying it can be. So far, my experience is different. Yet, I'm not complaining. It was very enlightening. As much as the Ayahuasca ceremony, without the terror and purging.

I’m reminded of the buddhist saying “Don’t just do something, sit there!”. So much of our culture is focused on productivity. Achieving. Turning thought to action. Doing something. Being someone. Finding meaning. This can feed into my ongoing mental story how I’m never good enough. I’ve never done enough. . . I was an over-acheiver most of my life and accomplished a shit-ton by societal standards. Physical fitness, the dream job, the woman, self-esteem, contributing, shaping lives, helping those in need, academic degrees, financial security, awards, recognition, world travel. Yet NONE of it satisfied The Story in my head. None of it brought the security, happiness, fulfillment and peace of mind The Story promised me. None of it brought me any closer to the simple Truth that *This is it*. The alive-ness of Now in which The Story resides.

Totally. My empathy is misexpressed or perceived. I have an underlying desire/intention to steer things toward resolution, contentment, well-being, happiness. This comes across as though it’s not OK to just be in a foul mood. . . And she has a point. I have categories of “good” and “bad” states of being. When she gets into a “bad” mood, I want to steer things into a “good” mood. She has told me they’re all just moods and to allow her to just be in whatever mood she is in. Part of it is my conditioning. My dad would get in foul moods and it was *serious*. Something was very *wrong*. There was this unspoken negative vibe that would last many hours and even linger for days. Walking on eggshells. It was really uncomfortable nit knowing what was wrong ir what would happen. . . My gf will be in a foul mood and it just passes. No big deal. She feels better. Yet, I can get thrown off-center for hours, even a day after a bad moid episode. I’ve been working on being aware of the thoughts and feelings that arise when I’m in a foul environment. And just allow those thoughts/feelings exist in me. To just be with them.

Most of the time, I'm content, upbeat, happy. I'm often told how I spin situations into a positive light and "turning lemons into lemonade". One challenge I have with dating is that I tend to be uncomfortable when a gf is upset/moody/angry. I've been told by several women how I try to always get us into "The Happy Zone". I've been told they feel pressure that they have to always be happy to match my spirit and don't have the freedom to be upset/moody/angry. It's become a very real issue in several relationships and something I'm working on.

Comparisons are a foundation of language, including the term “higher”. Unfortunately it’s quite easy to slip into thinking about how freakin’ high my consciousness is compared to others. ? Perhaps “evolved consciousness” isnt as loaded. Or one could drop the story altogether and just be.

Yes, for occassional brief periods Yet I also met plenty of travelers in Peru doing these Aya ceremonies as a lifestyle - perhaps “chasing” as you termed it.

It’s a combination of two molecules from a plant found in south america. The ceremonies vary. Mine were in a temple and also involved meditation, etheral music, singing and burning of some type of incense/dried plant.

What you’ve written is consistent with an Ayahuasca ceremony I attended. It’s actually one of the best descriptions of the indescribable I’ve read.

@Faceless The state of consciousness after running 40 miles is totally different than short distances. In some ways there is overlap with psychedelics. I’ve had more intense hallucinations toward the end of ultramarathons than psychedelics. After an IronMan triathlon, my cognition had aspects of a no-self being. I needed medical attention for hours. There have been happenings of “no state” consistent with your description - with and without psychedelics. Yet I am unable to understand or describe this “no state” through language, which is inherently dualistic. And I am unable to limit this “IS” by asserting it “IS” in only certain conditions. In terms of rational thought: I think it would be very difficult to argue “no state” cannot be with pschedelics because 1. Psychedelucs are an “outside agent” or 2. The biochemical effects of psychedelics on the brain. To me, both use an absolute framework that would be untenable under closer scrutiny. Regarding the idea of “chasing” a previous psychedeluc experience. . . For me, psychedelics are a manner of being. Just like long distance running, extended meditatation or international travel. The perspective you offer seems to distinguush psychedelics as an “outside agent”. Yet, all the activities described above also involve “outside agents”. My object is contionuos with the environment and they flow together. When I travel abroad, I’m not really chasing a previous experience. I never know what will surface. I suppose one could argue that I am still chasing a novel experience. Yet one still couldn’t limit psychedelics to the “chasing” argument. The inherent intention within chasing would include a vast array of activities. I can see the point that psychedelics may lead to the delusion of “no state”. Yet the same could be said about those claiming “no state” through meditation, long distance running or immersion with remote foreign tribes. The “outside agent” part doesn’t seem to apply.

I did his 30 day program a while ago. It did increase my clarity, productivity and achievements

@Faceless The same logic would apply to my long distance running. I reach an expanded state of consciousness around mile 20.

I've asked myself whether I'm chasing a psychedelic experience several times. Some psychedelic spaces include anxiety and fear. I definitely don't want to chase those. Yet there are also some spaces I'd like to return to, yet that isn't my experience with psychedelics. I don't know where the trip will lead. The uncertainty is a source of the anxiety. For me, it's more like visiting a higher consciousness level - which can be very uncomfortable. Along the lines of spiral dynamics consciousness levels. Just like how I don't remain in one conscious level sober, I don't remain in a higher psychedelic consciousness level. It's not like a trip shows me THE truth and that I found out what I needed to know and it's time to move on. . . Rather, psychedelic conscious levels are a part of my ongoing evolution. Rather than being restricted to three sober conscious levels, I have four or five. I've been meditating for about 26 yrs and have only used psychedelics for 1.5yrs. And my sober conscious levels are evolving faster when I utilize a variety of spiritual methods (including psychedelics). I would imagine my growth would be stunted if I ONLY used psychedelics. I met travelers in Peru that had no real job and psychedelics were a lifestyle. They were constantly doing Ayahuasca and San Pedro. I suppose there is a point of overdoing it.

And you can listen to your favorite music. I often listen to podcasts and learned to speak spanish.

I'm in a small town. I drive an hour each way to events. It's definitely a challenge in developing and maintaining friendships.

I have some beliefs I'm questioning about what an evolved person "should" look like. I imagine enlightened/evolved people to be highly invested in reducing the suffering of others. Such as buddhist monks and personal development speakers/authors. Having retreats for others. . . And in Spiral Dynamics the description of second tier yellow involves an integrated systems perspective focused on developing solutions to societal problems. My gf is a social worker serving refugees, the homeless and those with HIV. Sometimes she questions the output of all my spiritual work. I have a lot of solitary time and often in my head, while she is out in the trenches with those in need. Last night she asked if I have any opinions, if I ever take a stand, if I have passions to help others, if I have a conviction I'm willing to fight for. . . To be honest, not really. I've become less interested in my opinions and more interested in learning about various perspectives. How perspectives are shaped, how perspectives influence each other. It seems many people with strong opinions and passions for a cause have a narrow perspective that they are locked into. Since incorporating psychedelics into my journey 1.5 yrs ago, I've become fascinated with learning Spanish, I've traveled through central and south america for weeks or months at a time. Fascinated by new cultural perspectives. I've become attracted to nondual speakers and a grand shared consciousness expressed through my object. As if I am one cell within a larger organism. I recently watched a Chris Cowan video in which he says a new form of enlightened expression is evolving: creativity and emergence. That attracted me. I'm currently intrigued by creating new college courses outside of the academic "norm box". I'm intrigued by what lies outside my current consciousness level and what may emerge. Yet, part of me has resistance if it's not involved in helping others and reducing suffering.

I'm also trying to increase my circle of friends. I can be a loner or invest too much into my gf. I'm joining some groups with common interests. There are tons of meet-up groups. I'm going to a Spanish meet-up on Saturday to brush up on my language skills. I've also been attending a couple buddhist groups. Yet, I still feel like they are acquaintances and not close friends.

Music can increase dopamine signaling in the pleasure-reward circuit, similar to a good meal or sex. It's a lesser degree than drugs like amphetamines or cocaine - yet I think it's reasonable to imagine the reward circuit contributes to music seeking behavior.

For me, tryptamines are more introspective and lsd is more extrospective. Fear and anxiety have been an issue for me as well. It has lessened with experience. Trips can be radically different from each other. Sometimes so different, I'm amazed I took the same substance.

@Max_V I've also been diagnosed ADD and lack planning and scheduling skills. It is unnatural for me. I've read books and watched videos on goal setting, planning and scheduling. I've been able to do it short term, yet it never becomes a habit or way of life. The most effective method for me is to keep it simple and dedicate a modest amount of time each day to scheduling and planning.

@Omario At higher dosages, part of the trip involves letting go of control. So, there is an inherent aspect you can't control through preparation. For me a "bad" trip would be freaking out and harming myself or others, getting trapped in an ongoing thought loop or blacking out. A few things I've learned: 1. Consider starting with a low dosage and gradually work your way up. Especially for people prone to anxiety or panic. A psychedelic perspective is very different and can be overwhelming for those without experience. 2. Be confident that your psychedelic is from a trusted source and is properly dosed (or that you weighed out the correct amount with a sensitive scale). When things get strange on the trip, thoughts of whether the psychedelic could be laced or if you mistakenly took too much can increase anxiety about the uncertainty of what could happen. 3. Create a comfortable setting you are familiar with. Lots of stimuli and social interactions can intensify anxiety. Even a standard environment like a restaurant can get overstimulating - background chatter, music, people, faces, contact - it can become surreal and overwhelming. In particular, pressure to have personal interactions in public can be a trigger (having to "deal" with people). Consider preparing a peaceful environment in your home or in nature. 4. Have several activity options. Lie in bed listening to music, meditate, watch a simple animated video, journal in a notebook. I've entered some dark places and changing activity can completely change the tone of the trip. 5. Some people like to set an intention. Is there an area of your life you would like to gain insight? Are there deep personal blocks you would like to become aware of? Would you like to gain clarity into the best direction to move in life? I occasionally set intentions and found they can help keep the trip grounded. 6. Consider a trip sitter. Some beginners do well with a trip sitter. I'd recommend someone with tripping experience that is chill and can keep things light, rather than someone who freaks out at the first sign of "trouble". 7. When sensation and perception start feeling odd during the come-up - turn on happy music and start dancing. Smile, laugh and get silly.

I can be very logical and get into intellectual debates. One thing that sets me off are arguments with absolute truth. Yet, the other person generally gets upset and sees me as an uncaring ass. I'm left scratching my head asking how I could have communicated better. Case in point: my gf sends me a video on Andrea Yates she shows as an example of compassion for her clients. Yates suffered from severe untreated postpartum depression for years and then killed her five children in 2001. In the video, doctors believed she now had a healthy mind. So, I ask my gf if she thinks Yates should be released and she responds "No" and goes off about personal responsibility. . . Assuming Yates was "psychotic" during the murder and that she now has a "sane" mind, *who* committed those murders? Assuming Yates is no longer a threat to others, why continue punishing her? . . . Well, this didn't go over well with my gf who thought I was taking the side of criminals and murderers. If someone takes multiple lives, their life should pretty much be over. . . To push it to the edge of her black-white perspective I asked "What if a woman's drink was spiked with PCP at a party and she went psychotic and killed multiple people? Should her life be pretty much over?". My gfs response was simply that people should take responsibility for their actions. I said that sometimes there are grey areas, to which she responded "grey shmey" and called me lame for not taking a stand. I'm more concerned about my communication skills than who is "right" or "wrong". She left upset thinking I'm a lame criminal sympathizer and I find myself writing that I can get hyper logical at times. Last night I watched Leo's video on Spiral Dynamics. I'm curious if this is a case where someone cannot understand a higher consciousness level. Absolute truth and black-white thinking is characteristic of the blue stage, while shades of grey and egalitarian is toward greenish. How would one communicate effectively? Bite my tongue and just listen to understand her? Change the topic? At best, I think I was in a green state (since I still believed I had the higher evolved view). How would a yellow communicate?

When I started learning Spanish, I joined an online “90 day challenge” group. We each set study time and progress goals. We held each other accountable by updating an online progress sheet. Many people set their goals too high and burned out. My goals were high, yet reasonable. The problem was, after two weeks it felt like work. I HAD to do it. My fascination with language and culture got zapped. My joy of learning flatlined. All obligation and checking into work. I quit the group and my zest returned.