Forestluv

@cetus56 Most research has focused on ill effects of having an unhealthy microbiome composition - so "bad" mental states such as depression and autism. Microbiome composition has been shown to influence gene expression in the brain (and vice-versa). Keep in mind, everyone, that microbiome composition is just one of MANY MANY factors that influence mental well-being. So if you're feeling depressed, don't go eating a quart of yogurt with live cultures expecting it will help you.

For sure. I've had non-dual experiences and there is NO WAY I could do even the most basic activities and inter-personal communication in a nondual mindset. Duality is a necessary tool to survive in a relative world. There are humorous videos online about what it would look like to live in a permanent nondual mindset.

The difficulty speaking about nonduality is that language is dual. Every statement you make about nonduality, you would need to also say it's the opposite (at the very least). Every word you use is dual (it is not another word). Balancing every statement out becomes tiresome and nonsensical. In your example: "Non-duality only exists without thought" AND "Non-duality only exists with thought" One way to balance this out is to turn each statement back on itself: "The idea nonduality only exists without thought IS the idea nonduality only exists without thought." This is only a half-step, yet it can highlight that each of your statements is saying X is Y. By turning the statement back on itself we are saying X is X. At best, we can only point to nonduality with partial truths. That is why zen monks often have nonsensical answers to students' questions. To break the mind's obsession with language, reason and images. When asked "What is nonduality?" a zen monk might drop an apple to the floor, he might ask the student "what was your face before you were born?", he may slap the student across the face or he may fart and giggle. The words and actions are just pointers. Yet, the mind can still become attached and analyze. . . "Hmmm, was nonduality the fart or the giggle? Maybe nonduality is the integration of fart and giggle. No, perhaps nonduality is the transcendence of the fart to humor. Yet, what if the giggle came before the fart? Could nonduality be the transcendence of the giggle? . . . And on and on and on for months, years, decades. . . Don't get attached and bogged down with the words. Don't waste months or years of your time chasing farts and giggles. Direct experience of nonduality is 1 million times more powerful than any words.

@cetus56 Along those lines, lots of research has shown that the microbiome in the gut helps regulate several aspects of homeostasis. As well, the bacteria in your gut have a direct line of access to the brain via the Vagus nerve. The microbiome in your gut is one factor (of many) that contributes to mental states.

@seeking_brilliance Here is a fun experiment: rather than referring to yourself as a noun, refer to yourself as a verb (I am Samueling). This replaces the idea of a person in a timeline to what is happening right now. Say it out loud. Right now, I am Samueling!!! Anything you do is Samueling! The definition of Samueling is whatever is happening right now. It's impossible for you to not be Samueling. Go ahead and try. . . Nope, that's Samueling too. . . Try again. . . Nope, that's Samueling too. You are ALWAYS Samueling. Referring to our self as a verb, rather than a noun, is a HUGE step forward in self actualization. It is MUCH closer to the truth.

@Andreas I would suggest contemplating: How are rules and laws beneficial to you? How are authority figures beneficial to you? Does acting out on Reddish impulses actually increase your chances survival and security? Or would is your survival and security increased by following rules and laws. . . Reflect on times that your Red was triggered. Did this increase your security? Did it serve you? Observe the behavior of mafia leaders. They harm and kill their adversaries for their own survival and security. Yet, if you look at the big picture . . . does their Reddish behavior increase or decrease their chance of survival? Does it increase or decrease their security? What if a mafia leader gave up their Red role as a mafia leader and became a regular construction worker that obeyed the rules and laws of society? Would their chances of survival and level of security increase or decrease? How would the world be if everyone behaved as Red? Imagine everyone being gang leaders, mafia leaders and dictators. Would a red society increase your chances of survival and security? Or would living in a society with rules and laws increase your chances of survival? This is just to develop an intellectual understanding. One can be blue intellectually and red emotionally. I think progressing past Red emotions is more difficult than progressing through Red intellectually.

Is describing the experience of fear with language the same as the experience itself of fear? Clearly not. Language is just symbols to represent something. It comes in handy as we navigate through life. From a nondualistic perspective, every word is NOT another word and is thus dualistic. That's why it's so hard to speak about nonduality. It's like the words are an arm pointing to "IT". Yet, the arm appears to be pointing at nothing. The arm are the words. People get sooo caught up on the arm (words). They dissect and analyze the arm (words). They argue over what the arm is made of. They can spend their whole life obsessed with the arm and never awaken to what the arm is pointing to.

From a rational perspective - yes. From a relative perspective - it is relative to how you define "equal" From an absolute perspective - no. Not only are all humans equal. But, humans, dogs, trees, paper clips, diapers, sunsets etc. are all equal.

@vinett Ahhh, you have encountered the limits of language. You can explore various ideas of what each of those terms mean. Yet keep in mind, there is no universal definition. For example, some awakened spiritual teachers use the first four terms you list as synonymous. Other teachers use the terms slightly differently and other teachers may use them completely differently. It sucks. I know. It's important to get a sense how someone is using a term - what is the context? For example, when I first listened to Rupert Spira, I noticed he was using the term "God" a lot. I thought "Oh geez, another holy roller religious nut" and I moved on. Yet, then I noticed many awakened people considered Spira as I wise awakened teacher. I thought "What gives?". I re-visited his videos. In one video he said that he used the terms awareness, presence, consciousness and God as synonyms. That completely changed the meaning of his talks for me and I had to recontextualize everything he was saying about God. Using the term "God" the same as "Consciousness" is VERY different than using the term "God" as an authoritarian guy in the sky that judges what is right and wrong. Humans assume their definition is "normal" and that everyone else uses the term the same way. This can be fine for terms like coffee cup and pencil. Yet, people can give very different meanings to words like "relationship", "respect" and "honesty". From my POV, many interpersonal conflicts are due to people assuming they have the "normal" definition of a term and that everyone else uses the same definition.

@robdl Yes, the "observer + object" stage is an early stage and it goes much deeper. As you wrote, there is still separation between observer and object. As well, thought labels are thoughts and one can get attached/identify with the "observer". That is, the meditator may think "Ahhh, I am not those thoughts, I am the observer"! Here, we reach the next stage of introspection of the observer. The "observer + object" stage is immature, yet it can be extremely beneficial. 99% of the human population are attached to, and identify, with their thoughts. Being able to step outside and observe their thoughts without attachment / identification could be the most profound realization in a person's life. It's an awakening. Many meditation practitioners stay in the "observer + object" stage for years. Perhaps their whole life. Many gain deep insights. Many beautiful teachings have been written on this stage. Rupert Spira calls it "Enlightened Duality". IME, the next stage beyond "observer + object" is much more subtle and difficult. I've never met anyone that bypassed the "observer + object" stage. (Without the use of psychedelics - which will fast forward a person beyond this stage in an hour).

@bejapuskas There are many forms of meditations and many reasons why a person meditates. For example, meditating for relaxation. Someone may reach a relaxed state, perhaps they imagine themselves relaxing by the ocean. This is a legit form of meditation and can help a person relax, reduce anxiety etc. There are many other forms of meditation as well. You wrote that your intent of meditation is to self actualize - so your scope of meditation will go way beyond relaxation. Generally, my meditation intent is to allow everything to be exactly as it is and sit in awareness of whatever arises. My intent is not to attain a peaceful state of mind or to gain insights. Rather to be aware of whatever arises - without attachment or identification. What if my mind wanders into la-la land about a movie I saw? Am I aware of this? What if my mind-body is experiencing a blissful state - am I aware of this? What if I have worry thoughts about an exam? What if I am feeling anxious? Am I observing whatever arises without attachment? Many novices have an idea of what meditation "should" look like. You mentioned that you reached another dimension and the meditation session went well. Where you aware of being in the other dimension? Or did you get lost in the experience and then "snapped out of it"? What if your meditation included lots of disturbing thoughts about getting even with an ex-girlfriend? Is that a "bad" meditation? What if you are grumpy or frustrated while meditating? One of the greatest gifts of meditation is to break the attachments/identification the mind has with thoughts and feelings. When meditating, just observe whatever arises. Don't judge or be self-critical or pat yourself on the back. It's ho-hum observation. There goes a thought about my exam, there goes a thought about a movie, there goes a fearful thought, there goes a thought about torturing insects - ho-hum they all arise and disappear. See if you can be an observer of your thoughts. Imagine each thought is a log floating down a river. It's not a "good" or "bad" log. It's not an "important" or "stupid" log. It's just a log. Just a thought. Let it go and come back to the breath.

There are states in which there is just being. No thought or feeling. Just being. You haven't experienced it yet. To me, it sounds like you are at a stage prior to the "observer + object" stage. Here, a person becomes so attached and identified to thoughts/feelings that they believe they are the thought/feeling. A few exercises to reach the "observer + object" stage 1. During meditation focus on your breath for grounding. Every time a thought appears, label it as "thought" and return to the breath. If you engage in thinking and "snap out of it", label it as "thinking" and return to the breath. If you get distracted by a feeling, label it as "feeling" and return to the breath. Do this over and over and over again. By labeling thoughts and feelings as thoughts and feelings - you are becoming an observer and telling the ego "I can observe you". . . The key is: do NOT be judgmental or critical of ANY thought or feeling. ALL thoughts/feelings are equivalent. A thought about being thirsty, a thought about having sex and a thought about torturing kittens are all equivalent. They ALL get labeled as "thought" and you return to the breath. The ego may throw out all sorts of thoughts/feelings that are juicy, tantalizing or disturbing. DON'T FALL FOR IT. The buddha himself had to deal with this. . . Over time, thoughts/feelings will lose their grip on you. You will start to experience the "observer + object" stage and you will get space from your truer self and the thoughts/feelings. 2. For 5 minutes (or however long you can handle it): every time you have a thought or feeling, turn it back on itself. The thought "I'm bored" becomes "A thought I'm bored is a thought I'm bored". The thought "This exercise is stupid" becomes "A thought this exercise is stupid is a thought this exercise is stupid". The thought "I feel anxiety" becomes "An anxious feeling is an anxious feeling". Do it for simple things as well "I want a soda" becomes "A thought I want soda is a thought I want soda". . . The mind wants to assign meaning to everything. This exercise neutralizes all thoughts and feelings. The mind HATES doing this. It wants to be in control and assign meaning. It makes assumptions and wants to be right. You will likely feel LOTS of resistance doing this. You are taking away the ego's power to control the narrative. By doing this you can break free of the attachment/identification with thoughts/feelings and enter the "observer + object" stage. I made some rapid progress with these techniques. And it's not just for beginners. I see many spiritual seekers, including members on this board, have very sophisticated thoughts about spirituality that they are attached to - and are unaware of it.

@bejapuskas I would form a daily habit of a couple spiritual practices as a foundation. E.g. mediation and contemplation journaling. As well, I would get curious about various spiritual perspectives - without getting attached to any one perspective. Really try to imagine what their perspective is like. Hang out with people that have different perspectives than you. Read about different perspectives. Some perspectives will resonate with you, others wont.

It's common in science yet not limited to science. It's rational/logical thinking. A rational-centered philosopher, construction worker, banker, wall street broker, pizza delivery guy etc. could dismiss a mystical experience as being irrational and woo woo. Last night I had a conversation with a woman that dismissed a paranormal experience she had as being irrational and woo woo. I asked her if we could pause and explore her direct experience. Perhaps this is an ability she has that is rudimentary (And I am the scientist). A couple weeks ago, my philosopher friend ripped into me about how my paranormal open-mindedness is completely irrational and how I've become one of those new agey woo woos I used to mock.

I only have a sliver of truth for you. And that is: all those beliefs are just ideas. Step outside the beliefs and observe them. You are more than beliefs.

@MM1988 That’s all a distraction. It comes down to wether you want to know the truth or not. And the truth doesn’t care about wether you are happy or suffering. Only you can solve your maze. Afterall, you created it. Wanting to solve it is half the journey,

@Ingit From one perspective, awreness comes prior to interpretation. I needed to let go of my attachments and indentification to my interpretations to awaken and become aware that they are interpretations. It’s been a never-ending process for me. It keeps going deeper and deeper. I feel like I’m on level 62 and I have no idea how many levels there are.

IME, it can be disruptive to personal development Psychedelics have led me to deeply question the nature of my existence and reality. It has beaten up and fragmented my personality. Yet, I have the sense that I’m beginning to see what lies beneath the personality - that which is true. Based on my experience, I would recommend psychedelics for truth seeking - but not for personality growth and development. Imagine watching a movie and getting immersed into the movie. . . Would you rather allow the characters to continue developing or that a bright light be shined on the movie so you can see it’s a movie screen? Psychedelics are that bright light. They show you the nature of reality - not how to develop a character. That’s been my experience. There are many other experiences out there.

@Mezanti However long it takes you to start letting go. It could be now, two months or two years from now.

Yet, at times the deconstruction process seems very illogical - as if I am going insane. Did I just suddenly appear in this living room? Have I appeared in this room countless times for a reason I am unaware of? Are all my memories merely programned into this mind? Are people just a figment of my imagination? Or are people living out their program? Are they unaware that their program even exists? Am I the only one aware of this? Deeply questioning one’s existence and reality to the point that these questions become the experience - it can feel insane. Does recognizing that this is an insane mind render the person sane?

I encourage you to experience ego death to better understand surrender. Try resisting surrender and see how it goes for you.

I’m not fully enlightened. Yet my enlightenment experiences involved fully surrending everything. All desires, control, beliefs, identity. Everything. That’s just my experience tho. There could be other paths to enlightenment that I’ve never encountered.

During the comeup of a few trips - as distinctions melted away - it made no difference if I stabbed myself or drank a glass of water. I’m not sure if this is along the lines of what you’re describing. What you wrote reminded me of it.

IME, ego death experiences have not brought ambition, purpose, energy or stuff to look forward to. Nonduality doesn’t care about that stuff at all. It doesn’t care about “me” at all. Ego death dissolves the self. It doesn’t empower it. If I was looking for ambition and purpose, I would do a workshop or course. I’d work on personal development, values, goal setting etc.

Mu! ?