Forestluv

Debate is based on rational thought and reason. This is indicative of tier 1. Tier 2 includes additional modes of thinking including relativism and post-rational thinking. Tier 2 is not attached to beliefs or ideas. Tier 2 is about an exploration of ideas, not a debate of ideas. There are various expression of Orange. My Orange expressions were personal achievement, science, logic and knowledge. Other aspects of Orange were not expressed, including materialism. I somewhat agree with your idea about pursuing truth and personal goals. I've always been a seeker of truth, yet during my Orange stage I was also a seeker of knowledge. This formed an odd hybrid in which I sought truth via science. I also got into a lot of logical debates about what is true. Overcoming adversity for personal gain is indeed a trait of Orange - which I was very good at for over 20 years of my adult life. So in that respect, I was "successful". Yet, from the perspective of evolving my consciousness, it was unsuccessful. The Orange-level trap I see here is the idea that surrender is failure. That idea prevents one from evolving to a trans-personal level. An ego must surrender for one to transcend the ego. I am using the term "fulfilling" in a different context. There came a point in which I recognized how shallow Orange was. I was fulfilled in Orange, yet levels deeper than Orange appeared that were not filled. There was a deep desire to fulfill these deeper levels and nothing in Orange could do it. There is an energetic shift from tier 1 to tier 2. Tier 1 is based on personal need-based seeking energy. Tier 2 is based on exploring and discovering the magnificence of life. They are very different energetic orientations. Overall, Tier 1 is like drinking gutter water. Tier 2 is like drinking spring water.

I used to repress emotions. This is based on my experience: 1. Do whatever you need to do to relax the mind. If you mind is in full-blown chatter mode during meditation try something else. Running, yoga, reading about spirituality, a bath, shamanic breathing. Whatever you need to do relax the mind. I made virtually no progress with a hyper-active mind. 2. During periods when your mind slows down is your opportunity. For me, there were small "gaps" between thoughts. Those are golden. It is in the gaps in which the "observer" can appear. One exercise I would do is to imagine thoughts are like logs. I imagined myself on the bank of a river watching logs (thoughts) float down the river. 3. Over and over and over again, I would jump on a log and start thinking. Then realize I was thinking. Back to the riverbank (or back to your breath). A beginner mind needs something to ground itself - like a riverbank or the breath. Counting breaths can be great. It's too difficult to simply sit in silence without thought. Aint gonna happen for a while. Recognizing thinking is a big step forward. Observing thoughts is an enormous step forward. 4. Every time a thought arose, I would pause and label it "thought" and return to the breath. Every time I recognized I was lost in thought I would label it "thinking" and return to the breath. Every time a feeling arose I would label it "feeling" and return to the breath. This is developing the "observer" stage. The observer is closer to the "real you" than thoughts and feelings. Every time you label a thought or feeling you are the observer telling the ego "I see you". . . This stage sucks. There is no way to sugar-coat it. It's really uncomfortable and the ego will have very strong resistance. You will encounter boredom, frustration and think it's a waste of time and question whether it's worth it. Over time, the observer will gain distance from thoughts and feelings. 5. Once I felt a strong sense of an observer, there was *much* less attachment / identification with thoughts and feelings. Then, they were allowed to "just be" and could be observed without judgement or criticism. Insecurity was allowed to just be. Then the insights appear: hmmm, isn't it interesting the insecurity arises whenever XXX happens. The source of the insecurity may be revealed. Insecurity isn't "bad" anymore. 6. The next stage is learning about "your story" and your personality. All the different dynamics of your personality. It gets super interesting when the observer is no longer attached / identified as the personality. Over time, the ego is no longer the biggest show in town. . .

This is pretty much a description of my meditation state. Occasionally, there are "normal" thoughts in the background - yet they are far away in the distance. During self-inquiry a question like "what is genuine?" may arise. Then nonverbal impulses that arise. As you stated, I get pulled back out of it. I'd say I'm in this state about 30% of meditation time and 10% of "regular" life time. They started off as small "gaps" between thoughts and got longer and longer. I'd say this true nature presence is "continuous" for stretches of around 20-30min. several times a day. Do you recommend continuing self-inquiry to keep breaking the habit? Or is there a new technique appropriate for this stage? Also, do "you" still have "normal" thoughts that pass through your mind and there is awareness? I mean you are writing normal thoughts in this thread - is there just no attachment/identification with them?

To me, this sounds like uncomfortable parts of the awakening process. As the self dissolves there will be resistance. From what I've read and heard, periods of borderline insanity is not uncommon. I just waited it out - I didn't have any other choice. Eventually it dissipated, then returned, then dissipated. . . My path has involved depths of everything: love, peace, terror, sorrow, beauty, powerlessness. And all sorts of mixtures. It's been a rough ride. At least it's not boring - boredom is my kryptonite. During anxiety/panic episodes, I take a beak from psychedelics. The good news is that empathy will skyrocket for others with anxiety/panic/insanity disorders.

Hmmm, do you want to open up emotionally? Or do you want to remove emotions that you think are in the way of you feeling confident? If you want to open up emotionally, how about becoming friends with all of your emotions including: insecurity, empathy, vulnerability, tenderness, compassion, sadness, love, appreciation. For me, confidence is not something I create. That is fake confidence as you say. Real confidence comes with letting go of the ego and becoming comfortable experiencing and expressing all of your emotions and allowing others the space to express their emotions to you. In doing so, we can form meaningful human connections.

Is self inquiry thoughtless? Or just free of rational / logical thinking? As an aside. . . the shaman in an Aya retreat in Peru told us the same thing. If we have thoughts like that, drink another serving of Aya

@VioletFlame Wow!! That feels so hauntingly beautiful to me. Your voice is so unique. Do you ever do nonverbal singing?

At the core of materialism is assumptions. Perhaps challenge that assumption. Flip the script and ask a materialist: if mental states were not physiological reactions, what would that look like? Or. . . how could we create an immaterial world and fake people out to think it is material?

I can relate. At first I just experienced it during some trips. Afterwards I’d be relieved and think “Thank goodness *that* is over”. Then I started experiencing it while sober. For me, I think it boils down to my sense of self losing control of the narrative in my mind.

I’ve experienced something similar. A couple self inquiry questions I’ve found helpful: what is the source of the panic sensation? Can the panic energy be tranformed into curiosity energy?

I've also had anxiety / panic issues at the point of surrender. Aya surrender was more difficult than 5-meo surrender. Also, if I mentally prepare for a trip by creating an epic surrender battle it's more likely that's what will happen.

It seems all thoughts are interpretation. Tell me a thought that is not an interpretation. . .

Would you say the buildings exist, yet thoughts don't exist? I.e. the building itself exists, yet the mind's idea that this is a building does not exist?

@winterknight Would it be more accurate to say the physical buildings are *within* the University? And that the University cannot be located as an object? Similarly, thoughts are like buildings *within* a Self. Yet, The Self cannot be located as an object of a self. Once step further. . . each individual entity is like a building within a single consciousness (one holistic Self of everything)?

A beautiful guide. Thank you for sharing it.

Is this in the area of what is actual vs. imagined? Leo gives an exercise in which one looks and feels their hand. Then, they put their hand behind their back and imagine looking and feeling their hand. For me, the lesson is that the mind conflates what is actual in the moment and what is imagined. The mind often groups it all together as "real". One can look around the room and explore what is actual. Then imagine being born, your memories, a deadline at work etc. - all fantasy. Over time one learns to distinguish what is actual and what is an imagined concept. Would this be aligned with your example? The buildings would be actual in the person's field of perception, the University of Texas is an imagined concept and not actual. If we dig deeper. . . are the buildings in the perception field "real"? Isn't a degree of separation necessary to distinguish the object (building) and subject (me)? Even if the buildings aren't technically real, can we still make a distinction between what is actual now vs. what is imagined? Or is it all equally imagined?

@graded24 I've noticed a field of "Quantum Biology" is gradually emerging. Do you think quantum phenomena will be apparent at the molecular level? For example, quantum tunneling playing a role in DNA alterations.

We spent a couple hours going over my chart. It was more complex and nuanced than I imagined. Super interesting.

@Robby Attend a spiritual retreat. They attract high conscous people and there is a good chance there will be a few very high conscious people. They could also point you in the right direction.

@DrewNows Yea, I actually screwed up the dosage the first time and took waaay to much. I blasted right through ego death - no time for anxiety or fear. For sure. I've often thought that conceptualizing about awakening is fun and games. Facing it is *much* more difficult. Like the old saying "Shit just got real"

i'm sensing some attachments with a self image. Dissolving / deconstructing the self can be a long process - something I am still working on. When speaking of transcendence of the self and awakenings, we often use terms like "you", "me", "I" and "we". The traditional use of these terms is illusory ("I" doesn't exist). Yet, it's a royal pain in the butt trying to communicate with each other without these terms. So, there is an underlying unspoken understanding that the conventional you/me/I/we doesn't exist and we are using the terms out of convenience. This was super confusing to me as I was transitioning through this stage. Your posts seem to be a mixture of self improvement and self transcendence. - You seem to use key words like "I", "me" and "we" with a degree of dissociation, yet also with identification as if those ideas are real. My questions were taking a peek at how much identification there is with a self. I think that is where your confusion lies.

I learned more during my first mushroom trip than my previous 20+ years of Buddhism and meditation. Yet, I big part of that revolved around ego death.

Thanks. I realize this is something I need to walk through with effort, work and direct experience. I only started using psychedelics about two years ago and the awakenings have come fast and furious - awakenings of various facets of Truth. The progress blew away over two decades of traditional meditation and I've felt overwhelmed trying to integrate all the lessons. Yet recently, the new awakenings have slowed to the point desire for more has returned. I'll try the low dose / contemplation route. I just got some ald-52, which has a much milder effect on me. Hopefully, the energy regarding this lesson has become strong enough that it will soon reveal itself.

I've thought about quite a bit myself. I often hear awakened beings say things like nonduality cannot be explained, only pointed to. I acknowledge that has been true for thousands of years - yet I question whether that is an assumption. What if in 200 years all beings are in nondual states? It was not a mindset people had to work years and years to reach. People are born and raised into it. If that was "normal" would not a method of communication arise? Perhaps hyper-intuition would serve as a "language".

I've been there. I had a 4 hour mushroom trip in the sub-ego death zone. Very uncomfortable. I so much wanted to just breakthrough or start coming down. Yet it was like the teacher said "Nope, I'm going to keep you here just prior to ego death to show you some stuff". The process gets easier. You may want to try something like ald-52 or San Pedro. They are much more gentle than mushrooms. Or, a lower dose of shrooms.