Forestluv

Beautiful. I've had very similar experience. I would just add that for most people, vaping and edibles have distinct experiences. Edibles can lead to a more intense / quasi psychedelic mind-body state.

We are fortunate to have a physicist with expertise in Quantum Systems on the forum. As well, we may have other members with expertise on the spiritual side. By request, let's start a thread for exploration and integration. For those of us new to Quantum systems, I encourage you to watch Leo's video:

I'd say rationality is within a larger sphere. There is also irrational and post-rational. One can enter states of perception with no rational filter. You may have gotten a glimpse of this during a micro flow state. For example, physical activities with moderate risk like rock climbing, mountain biking, downhill skiing can stimulate a micro flow state - where the personality dissolves and they are "in the zone". There is perception without rationality. There are many other post-rational mind states and they are amazing.

@Jack River For my self biggest obstacle is loss of control.

@Jack River yea. Words take on new understanding as we go deeper and deeper. . .

@Jack River winter said it’s cool to substitute nothingness/emptiness for peace/bliss - so it’s the same context / concept he is pointing to. So, I’m considering his usage of peace/bliss to be synonymous with nothingness/stillness/emptiness in our conversation- unless he draws a new dinstinction

That’s why I prefer “nothingness/emptiness” over “bliss”. Seekers seem likely to associate bliss as satisfaction and trigger the self to chase. The self is unlikely to chase “nothing/empty”

Mindfulness practice leads to increases in regional brain gray matter density https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092549271000288X Different meditation types train distinct parts of your brain https://www.newscientist.com/article/2149489-different-meditation-types-train-distinct-parts-of-your-brain/

"Peace" and "Bliss" are loaded terms for my self. Would it be ok to rephrase it as "If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total nothingness/stillness/emptiness, well, no problem."

There are still impulses such as "I need to do xyz" , "I don't like xyz". Yet, then there is awareness of the thought without immersion into "I" storytelling. So, each time the "I" thoughts appear, you recommend doing a quick self inquiry, such as "Who is that I that needs to do xyz?" to maintain a higher level of awareness?

When I "enter" this space during the day there is a sense of background awareness. Sort of like an observer, but not like person observer. So, perhaps an "observer + object" mindset (in which all thoughts / feelings / actions are also "objects"). Yet, it's a different essence than my full-on nondual glimpses. It seems there needs to be some sense of duality to operate in the world. To deal with coworkers, realize my pen is used to write, language etc. Is this a sense of "enlightened duality"? Or perhaps the final frontier is collapse of the distinction between duality and nonduality.

Cool. It was like the stillness didn't care about the inquiry and let it go. My mind had an idea of what it should look like. When you say to maintain "I" inquiry, would this include "Who/What am I?", the "I Am" and simply "I"? And when the inquiry drifts away, maintain attention on it? And if nonverbal impulses do not appear, just maintain the presence of the inquiry? There is part of me that feels like "something" is supposed to happen with self-inquiry. Sometimes it doesn't feel like *self* inquiry because the self isn't present. It feels simply like "inquiry". That the inquiry is acting like a stillness stabilizer.

@winterknight During meditation today, the mind became still and the self-inquiry question "What is Love?" arose. There was no analysis or thinking about what love is. Yet, there was also no nonverbal appearances of what Love is. The question just existed there in the stillness. It just sat there. Then it would dissolve into nothingness and reappear. Yet, nothing else related to Love appeared. Should there be attention effort to maintain the presence of the inquiry? Or is it ok if it dissolves and reappears? (When it dissolved, mental chatter was still low and off in the distance).

@winterknight Thank you for your time and effort! This thread is a wonderful help to increase the consciousness on the forum

It seems meditative self inquiry space has a distinct essence from conceptualizing. I often see people go into sophisticated concepts around enlightenment - many of which are quite alluring. At times, I sense what could be called an advanced "observer + object" stage. "Objects" would include physical objects, thoughts, concepts, memories, feelings, physical body etc. There is an underlying awareness that is still and ever present. Spiritual conceptualizing seemed to be helpful for a while. There would be a glimpse of the Truth and upon "returning" to the self, the self did not dismiss it as "woo woo" because of the conceptual framework present. Yet now this deep state of pure presence is more common and stable. This pure presence doesn't need any concepts for validation. Digging into spiritual concepts seemed to serve me for so long, yet now there is a sense that they are a distraction and are actually pulling me away from deeper awakening. Sometimes all the concepts seem like fun and games *within* that ISness. That they are all inherently meaningless and have no more relevance than any other input or impulse. Even the spiritual traditions, statues, bowing etc. lack relevance. In the place of emptiness, none of that stuff matters, it is only when the self returns that it seems to matter. In that stillness, ALL of the ideas, concepts, deities, enlightened masters, principles etc are within the illusion. All of it For a being at this stage, would you recommend more sitting with nonverbal inquiry such as "what is perception?", "who am I?" as a bridge to the stillness of everything/nothing? Is part of deeper surrender letting go of spiritual concepts?

Yup. It’s all one everything / nothing. Fun stuff.

That can be scary to a self.

This is so awesome. Have a wonderful retreat! ♥️

@winterknight The whole bit about enlightenment being a process is just another story in the mind. Just another illusion of the seeker. . . Illusory thoughts are connected to create illusory stories. Illusory stories are connected to form an illusory self. The illusory self sets up an illusory game of life. The self seeks to validate and protect itself. It must keep itself relevant to stay in the game. Other selfs seek truth and liberation through enlightenment. They seek all over the world for years and years, only to realize they were enlightened all along. The greatest cosmic joke ever told. . .

Like birds chirping in my backyard.

Thanks. Yet, even in the busiest mind, is there not an underlying stillness? As if one is sitting in a busy area of NYC at complete peace?

@Key Elements Cool!!!

That is a beautifully juicy Orange mindset. Go for it and have fun.

I may be at that transitional stage now. When I "return" to the "self" mindset, the "return" has a more mature essence. There isn't as much grasping for the "enlightened state" anymore. It's all just whatever. It's all just what is. . . Nonverbal insights during self inquiry, tired at work, thoughts about traveling, not wanting to wash the dishes etc. There can be this eternal "ISness" about it. As if I was just making shit up that it is somehow different. Yet, there is even an awareness that making up a story is just making up a story. No different than admiring a beautiful sunset, shedding a tear while reading a love poem or stepping in dog poo. There is no escaping what "IS". Everything is eternally IS

"I" have absolutely no doubt of knowing that. Yet, it is non-abiding. However, each time I return to the self-based mindset, the self is weaker, a little less there. I thought you wrote earlier that enlightenment is a one-shot deal. Is it a process for some? For me, it seems like the self has taken several heavy blows during the process and is gradually dissolving away to nothing.