Forestluv

@Aquarius Those are solid Green values. Perhaps you could find a healthy Orange person to date. Many people centered in Orange are not dogmatic ideologues obsessed with materialism. Many are moderate Orange looking to improve themselves to achieve personal goals and meet their personal needs. When I was Orange-centered, I dated a Green-centered woman. As well, when I was Green-centered I dated and Orange-centered woman. So, I've experienced it from both sides. I would say a few sources of conflict in the relationship were: 1. One person being over-analytical and trying to "figure everything out" and "fix things". Other person, wanting to talk about feeling, emotionally connect. 2. One person placing higher value on material things. Other person placing higher value on personal experience and connection. 3. One person seeing the relationship as transactional - two people each trying to meet their own needs. The other person wanting to build a sense of "us". Shared purpose and meaning.

This was a sober experience. For me, psychedelics opened the door to mystical experiences. Then, I needed lower and lower doses for an effect- then, mild mystical sober experiences began to arise. Did your realization arise conceptually? Or was it an experience that arose and the mind tried to explain in conceptually?

This is a beautiful realization and state. Lately, I've had experiences in which the being of awareness is not centered in my head. It is centered outside of my mind-body. The mind-body is within a higher consciousness. Most importantly, it's not just an idea - it's the direct experience. It's almost like an out of body awareness. I think that is somewhat aligned with your realization. Fun stuff.

I'm trying to improve my teaching skills on "meeting people with where they are at". At times it seems creating a model that assumes rationality can be a helpful teaching tool. In the SD model: imagine an Orange-level person with attachment / identification that they are a "rational thinker" - they see everything outside of their rational framework as being irrational. If we allow that and call the Blue Stage "irrational", Orange "rational" and Yellow "post-rational", it can introduce to them a level of thinking/being beyond their delusional sense of rationalism. Once they open up and explore this possibility, they may get direct experience with a "post-rational" being (flow states, intuition, a glimpse of nonduality). This could loosen their attachment / identification to rational thinking. Then with more exploration, these three categories collapse. Or, do you think it's more effective to "cut straight to the chase" with an Orange level "rationalist"?

@Tony 845 For some it's like a long slog, for others it’s like getting struck by lightning

One can be ideological about atheism - which Sam Harris most certainly is. Harris is such an interesting mix of Orange, Green and Yellow.

I wish I was in the audience so I could have asked him that! ?

@SgtPepper Good one! I’ve actually done that with my glasses (they were on my face ?)

For sure, I recently saw a Tedtalk in which a neuro physicist said it is impossible to create Artificial Intelligence that can be creative. . . . Huh, reality can do whatever the heck it wants. And how did creative humans arise?

His self totally wants to control the narrative. I’ve been there ?

I was in Antigua Guatemala tripping on 4-Aco-Dmt. The center square was so beautiful. The water fountain. The colorful clothing. The trees. The sunset. My self dissolved and I was one with the environment. . . There was a military man standing at attention in the square to create a safe environment. He was heavily armored with a large machine gun and ribbons of bullets. The military man was absolutely stoic and stone-faced. He looked tough as nails. A true badass. Yet, I felt an overwhelming sense of love, appreciation and gratitude for him. I walked up to him and in my intermediate level Spanish, I told him I have traveled around the world and this was the most beautiful place I have ever seen. The most beautiful people and community. I thanked him for standing here and giving me the opportunity to experience such beauty without fear. . . There was a pause. . . Then for a moment, he dropped his shoulders and turned his head to look at me. His eyes turned so soft. I saw him and he saw me. All of our loves, frustrations, insecurities, anxieties, joys. . . He smiled gently, said "Gracias", then turned back into character - standing stoically. One of the best moments of my life which stimulated an inner transformation within me.

@winterknight For some seekers, can low doses of psychoactive substances be used as a tool to bridge the gap between an egoic mindstate and the "I AM"?

I would imagine a materialist physicist would likely think that particles "obey" physical laws. Yet, I don't have much experience in this area. Perhaps our physicists @graded24 @Elisabeth can help answer this.

Beautiful. I've had very similar experience. I would just add that for most people, vaping and edibles have distinct experiences. Edibles can lead to a more intense / quasi psychedelic mind-body state.

We are fortunate to have a physicist with expertise in Quantum Systems on the forum. As well, we may have other members with expertise on the spiritual side. By request, let's start a thread for exploration and integration. For those of us new to Quantum systems, I encourage you to watch Leo's video:

I'd say rationality is within a larger sphere. There is also irrational and post-rational. One can enter states of perception with no rational filter. You may have gotten a glimpse of this during a micro flow state. For example, physical activities with moderate risk like rock climbing, mountain biking, downhill skiing can stimulate a micro flow state - where the personality dissolves and they are "in the zone". There is perception without rationality. There are many other post-rational mind states and they are amazing.

@Jack River For my self biggest obstacle is loss of control.

@Jack River yea. Words take on new understanding as we go deeper and deeper. . .

@Jack River winter said it’s cool to substitute nothingness/emptiness for peace/bliss - so it’s the same context / concept he is pointing to. So, I’m considering his usage of peace/bliss to be synonymous with nothingness/stillness/emptiness in our conversation- unless he draws a new dinstinction

That’s why I prefer “nothingness/emptiness” over “bliss”. Seekers seem likely to associate bliss as satisfaction and trigger the self to chase. The self is unlikely to chase “nothing/empty”

Mindfulness practice leads to increases in regional brain gray matter density https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092549271000288X Different meditation types train distinct parts of your brain https://www.newscientist.com/article/2149489-different-meditation-types-train-distinct-parts-of-your-brain/

"Peace" and "Bliss" are loaded terms for my self. Would it be ok to rephrase it as "If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total nothingness/stillness/emptiness, well, no problem."

There are still impulses such as "I need to do xyz" , "I don't like xyz". Yet, then there is awareness of the thought without immersion into "I" storytelling. So, each time the "I" thoughts appear, you recommend doing a quick self inquiry, such as "Who is that I that needs to do xyz?" to maintain a higher level of awareness?

When I "enter" this space during the day there is a sense of background awareness. Sort of like an observer, but not like person observer. So, perhaps an "observer + object" mindset (in which all thoughts / feelings / actions are also "objects"). Yet, it's a different essence than my full-on nondual glimpses. It seems there needs to be some sense of duality to operate in the world. To deal with coworkers, realize my pen is used to write, language etc. Is this a sense of "enlightened duality"? Or perhaps the final frontier is collapse of the distinction between duality and nonduality.

Cool. It was like the stillness didn't care about the inquiry and let it go. My mind had an idea of what it should look like. When you say to maintain "I" inquiry, would this include "Who/What am I?", the "I Am" and simply "I"? And when the inquiry drifts away, maintain attention on it? And if nonverbal impulses do not appear, just maintain the presence of the inquiry? There is part of me that feels like "something" is supposed to happen with self-inquiry. Sometimes it doesn't feel like *self* inquiry because the self isn't present. It feels simply like "inquiry". That the inquiry is acting like a stillness stabilizer.