Forestluv

I agree that is a much less threatening framework to an ego and could be more effective at times. Yet being generic like that removes degree. Some unconscious biases cause more harm than others. And I agree with you that there are many other important issues to be addressed. Mist of my attention these days is spent mental illnesses.

In those abstract terms, no it hasn’t. Yet my impression of the video was he was literally speaking of the Vietnam war. Wether “racism” will ever “end” is an interesting question. A higher conscious form of racism may emerge in the future

@Jack River If you want to go to the absolute level, then there is nothing / everything. Simply One. That’s great. Yet from that Nothingness is also a relative existence. That One consciousness is expressing itself relatively. And that relativity is evolving. Everything is absolutely perfect as it is in the Eternal Now and is evolving relatively. Some beings in that relative workd want to help increase the relative consciousness of that One absolute consciousness.

@Outer Yes, from one perspective the Vietnam War was nonsense. Yet, a lot of suffering was associated with the Vietnam war. Is well, racism is nonsense. Yet a lot of suffering is associated with racism. When society’s consciousness realized the nonsense of the Vietnam war, it finally ended. When society’s consciousness realizes racism is nonsense, it will end. We are trying to raise that consciousness level to help reduce racism.

Raising individual consciousness is super important, so is raising societal consciousness. Look at how much impact Leo has had at both levels. The evolution of individual and societal consciousness isn’t always graceful. It gets uncomfortable at times. There is both inner and outer conflict at times. Any suggestions to make the process more effective at individual and group levels are appreciated. Perhaps that might entail avoiding these types of group conversations. But to just say this does no good doesn’t help progress much. To awaken to the absolute that racism doesn’t exist is a powerful revelation, yet it in the realitive world - it doesn’t do much to help reduce suffering associated with racism.

That is great stuff for the person. My question is how would one disseminate that? Leo is creating videos and maintaining this forum, Emerald has a Youtube channel, I’m teaching this stuff in my courses. All the personal development work is very important, yet if one wants to help raise the conscious level of society, they need to reach out to society. Personally, once I started having direct experiencecof liberation beyond a self, an energy arose to help other beings that are suffering in low conscious states. Simply “not contributing to the stream of conditioned reaction” just doesn’t cut it for this energy. I may not be the most graceful, I may be awkward at times - yet there is an energy of genuine desire to help others.

I think that is one aspect of it. We would need to measure and compare Yoga practicioners for begginner, intermediate and advanced classes. Yet would that necessarily breed antagonism/competion/division? Well, it depends on the person. In terms of SD, that type of antagonism/competion/division are common features in Tier1, it’s rarely seen in Tier2

I never said those issues are not important as well. I actually spent a few years involved in Malaria research ?

We group people at different developmental stages all the time. There are 5th grade and 6th grade. There are Yoga classes for beginners, intermediates and advanced levels. Grouping people into similar developmental stages can help teaching efficiency. There is no way I could teach a genetics class filled with elementary, high school and college level students. Yet, I wouldn’t say one level is “better” than another level. The point is we are trying to help the kids advance to the next level. Similarly, we can create developmental personal awareness levels. The downside is levels are often associated with superiority, which can stimulate defensiveness, demonization, competition etc.

Don’t get distracted by the details. The big picture here is to raise the average conscious level of society. Uncertainty about how society will evolve within this higher consciousness is just social resistance to evolving higher. It is the same dynamic at the individual level . . . “but wait!! If I discover my unconscious biases, I could lose my job! If I realize the self is an illusion, I could go insane!!!” You don’t get assurances of the output, before taking the plunge. You don’t get assurance that kriya yoga will help you progress and discover Truth beforehand.

SD is just one model to converse within a relative world. If the model worries you, don’t use it. It will be a distraction to the underlying issue. The point is that human minds are unconscious of personal and systemic biases. We are trying to raise that consciousness.

No, that is not what I am pushing for. I said the tests are getting better and better. One day the may be one tool (of many) that can reveal unconscious biases.

Red Herring alert

It’s a relative model for ease of conversation. Don’t get caught up in the model. To say eveyone is on the same developmental conscious level is incorrect in a relative world. How can we help people raise their consciousness is the underlying question for me. I’m cool with using any tool to help matters.

Great. Now how do we increase self understanding for those that defend their unconscious biases?

I did not say you are limited to scientific quantification. Hiw would you become aware of your own unconscious biases?

That doesn’t answer the question. You seem to be giving an absolute answer to a relative problem. “Be the Change” is the type of bumper sticker I saw when I lived in Santa Cruz. Yet, what exactly does it mean and how does “be the change” help bring awareness to unconscious and systemic racism?

Ok. How would you suggest we help those with unconscious racial biases to increase their awareness?

Are you aware that you have unconscious biases that you are unaware of?

@Jack River That is easy to say from a high conscious state of mind. Yet the reality is that low conscious mind states exist and we are trying to help raise consciousness. Help us out. How would you help raise the consciousness of a defensive Orange level being?

Neural imaging trying yo detect unconscious biases is getting better and bette - including racism. I know this is a limited materialist approach, yet I think this type of science would help bridge the gap from Orange to Green. Orange loves science and once there is a scientific consensus of the neurolgy of unconscious racism, it will convince a lot of Orange level deniers. And those that score high on unconcious biases tests, score low on conscious biases tests. They are unawre that they are biased.

@Sockrattes I would consider judgements based on racial features to be an expression of racism. Imagine Europeans coming into contact with Africans. Do you think they never used the color of their skin to distinguish “otherness”. To me, that’s one step away from saying they didn’t use physical features to distinguish themselves from rabbits.

I totally want to pull Outer up into Green. I think his Green/Yellow version would be great to help Orange advance.

Another nice defense ? If the term self inquiry is worrisome to you, do contemplation. . . From my POV, you are safe in your head and want to avoid the practice of taking a close look at your self and facing your self. It’s uncomfortable.

I’m not an expert on historical racism, yet it’s hard for me to imagine how a self would be unaware of physical feature differences as it constructed a sense of self relative to it’s own survival. Physical features of different groups is such an obvious cue for a self based on separation and survival. Do you not think there were rival tribes where each tribe thought the other tribe threatened their own survival? How did they distinguish “our tribe” from the “other tribe”? Sure they used facepaint and clothing to distinguish themselves. Yet, you don’t think physical features were ever used to distinguish? I find that hard to comprehend.