Forestluv

Do you think academia is evolving up the Spiral toward Green and Yellow? At my institution, there is some support at Green and Yellow levels - but not Turquoise.

Do you think women start bucking gender roles of the past at stage Orange? At stage Blue, the traditional gender role is to raise children, be a housekeeper and be submissive to an authoritarian man. Stage Orange women need to buck this role to have develop personal autonomy, personal goals, enter the workforce, dress as they want etc. So, at stage Green - does bucking of the Orange female gender role ensue? I.e. the woman does not have to play a "feminine Orange" role anymore? Regarding what you call "Power". . . An upper Orange male will experience resistance to Green masculinity because Orange males will see it as "weak" and that they are giving up power. Yet, they cannot comprehend the new form of Green masculine power they will embody if they transition through Green. So, it appears as losing. . . Yes? As more females transition through Green and into Yellow, they will be less attracted to traditionally masculine "alpha males". They will be more attracted to Green and Yellow level masculinity. I think we are seeing this now. Traditionally masculine men are seeing techies, hipsters, snowflakes, yoga, politically correct males getting in on their alpha male action. These wussy Green men are becoming more successful with women, which causes confusion, anxiety and frustration in blue/orange men (hence an attraction to speakers like Jordan Peterson). Yes?

@Leo Gura And his thesis was "An Intuitive Model of Nonbinary Empathetic Love Applicable to All Morally Relative Beings".

Welcome to the forum @Orcoda Leo has a series of excellent videos. I would recommend starting with "65 Principles for a Good Life". Leo explains what actualized.org is about and key practices / mindests for an actualizer.

Once one realizes there is no Santa Claus, why continue living as if there was a Santa Claus? It no longer makes sense. Similarly, if one realizes there is no self, why continue living as a self? It no longer makes sense. You are essentially asking "If there is awakening that there is no me, what's in it for me?". Well, nothing. The self gets served a plate of nothing. Yet, if we want to motivate a self to actualize, we can hang a few carrots: there will be the end of suffering. There will be a sense of peace and freedom your self cannot imagine.

For those of you that are SD aficionados: this is a beautiful example of how Orange views Turquoise. This is a bit too conspiracy oriented and a distraction. @Trinity You've made your point and seem locked into your perspective. Cheers.

Oh my, this question is right up @Emerald's alley. . .

What you have been writing has not raised any thoughts in my mind regarding traps or delusion.

That's not what is being pointing to. There seems to be focus on the pointer, not what is being pointed to. . .

Sometimes it seems people on the forum get immersed into their story of ideas. The statement "self hates to accumulate and cling to ideas", is also true. The statement "self loves to get rid of and let go of ideas" is also true.

That is a key question to contemplate

Could that be false?

Do you believe that? Could that be false?

Yes. It is easy to see in others. Much more difficult to see in one's own self. One's own self tends to believe it's own ideas about self, thoughts, movements through time etc.

I find writing poetry to be a method to express nonlinear post-logical modes of being. I used to think it silly and a waste of time. I now see and feel it's beauty.

Would you have the understanding that a self was pursuing ideas it presents in this thread? Ideas of self, thoughts, movements in time etc. are all being entertained by a self component that has yet to be realized?

The "observer + object" duality dissolves. Rupert Spira uses a model of these stages in a few of his videos.

There are a variety of pointers. The "Everything / Nothing" pointer is commonly used by nonduality teachers. It can be a really strong pointer for some minds. It is related to understanding distinctions. It's hard to place no-self awakenings and Everything/Nothing awakenings on a relative hierarchy or linear timeline. I've had partial awakenings to no-self and Everything/Nothing. The deepest glimpse I've had was Mu - which is prior to any concepts or ideas of no-self or self.

It sounds like your capacity of love is expanding - pushing against previous boundaries. I've found the sensation to be both beautiful and uncomfortable.

The "observer + object" stage is more advanced than a self-identified stage. Yet, "observer + object" is an intermediate stage. It goes much deeper.

@Mezanti Absolute Enlightenment is not dependent on circumstances. It is present during pain, love, laughter, running from a lion, eating a meal, getting in a car accident, watching a leaf fall, typing a post on a forum etc.

You have likely had glimpses of this. Have you ever been in a mental flow state in which there was no “you”? Perhaps skiing, mountain biking or creating art. How did it flow? Much better without “you” messing things up - worrying about stuff, how good you look etc. Try doing the yoga “Tree” posture. Get good enough so you can do it effortlessly and you are one mind-body without thought. Now start thinking about yourself, your day, how impressed everyone will be with your yoga posture etc. What happens? You’ll fall down. The mind-body is highly sophisticated - it doesn’t need a sense of an illusory self to operate.

Ahhh, so interesting. You are approaching Green from a different direction than I. A couple ideas are arising in my mind. . . Perhaps it might be beneficial to seek out "healthy Green" - those that are not dogmatic. There are plenty of ideological Greens that will want to debate with Orange. Rather than hot political debates, perhaps explore Green values on human connection, love, sexuality, creativity, intuition. Also, exploring Green modes of being does not mean you reject Orange modes of being. Green is an expansion of Orange. For example, a healthy Green can still use logic and reason when appropriate. Yet, now they are skillful at using moral relativism, compassion, empathy, creativity and basic non-linear logic. You are viewing Green as being irrational like Blue is irrational. Yet, Green becomes post-rational. Part of the reason I got burned out on Orange was that I was analyzing and logical all the time. I was a walking logical thinking head. At school, with family, with my girlfriend etc. Eventually, I yearned for *real* human connections. I wanted to expand my capacity to love and participate with others. To expand my sense of community. Green has levels of emotional and spiritual depth, Orange cannot imagine.

@Brittany Thank you. I've been looking for examples of Yellow stage women. She is great. That seems like an Orange perspective of what it imagines Yellow to be like. Tier1 is "anti" other Tier1 stages. Tier1 stages demonize each other. Tier2 has transcended and embodied Tier1. Tier2 is not "anti" any stage in Tier1, they no longer demonize other stages. What you are saying is like saying: "College is the rebellion against the 4th grade, like how 4th graders rebelled against 3rd graders. A college student is like a 6th grade brat that throws a temper tantrum because they can't have a piece of candy. So, real college students can be aggressively ant-4th grade. If it's what a 4th grader says, then it must be wrong". This is the perspective of what a 3rd grader imagines 5th grade will be like. College students are soooo much more mature and developed than this. Similarly, Yellow is much more mature and advanced than you are imagining.

That is a huge observation and a major key. One metaphor I like is that a person is at a concert and all they can see are that the restrooms are messy and smell bad. They are missing the beauty of the music, the beauty of the dancing, the beauty of interpersonal connections, deeper levels of love and joy. I was a hardcore scientist with major resistance against many aspects of Green. One thing that helped my transition was to learn Spanish and live within villages in Central and South America. I know this may not be feasible for many people, yet that direct experience was extremely powerful. It helped shatter my existing paradigm. Sometimes, a seeker needs to be willing to seek the Truth at any cost. What that looks like can vary.