Forestluv

Unfortunately, the "Just arrive without a path" strategy is not very effective for newcomers. I've never met anyone that "just arrived" without some form of a path. Generally, a self needs to search, learn, discover, integrate, let go, surrender and practice toward abiding One Consciousness. Newcomers can be told over and over again that they have already arrived, that there is nothing to seek and they are already whole and that they are the entire Universe. It just doesn't work. IMO, suggesting to a newcomer that spiritual practices / work along a path is unnecessary and leads to dead things is unhelpful and inaccurate. Every awakened being I've ever met or heard of had a spiritual path. They had to deconstruct and unlearn social conditioning of a self to realize and transcend the self. Even Buddha had a spiritual path. . . As well, one of the biggest traps at intermediate and advanced stages is the belief that "I have arrived and don't need a path of practice and work".

Self actualization involves a lot of practice and work, which can be very uncomfortable, anxious and painful. The self doesn't get anything, it is a total loss for the self. The self will struggle to maintain control as it dies. It's not like a trip to the amusement park in which we want to bypass traffic to get there quick, have some good experiences at the park and then get back to our lives. . . It's not like our bad habits and feelings will dissolve and only the good parts we like about our self remains. The whole illusion of the self dies - what the self considered good and bad both dies. Life as the self knew it is over.

I totally walked into that one ?

You say you have accepted there is no “I”, yet you speak from the perspective of a self. This is far more radical than you are aware of. It goes so far beyond logic, reason and objectivism. It comes prior to all the concepts in your mind. A rationalist will perceive both irrational and post-rational as irrational. It’s a formidable hurdle to get over, but it’s oh so worth the work.

I haven't heard of him. The thought just appeared in the ole noggin.

Yellow FTW!!

This is akin to Leo's hand exercise. Stare at your hand. Massage your hand. See and feel what is actual in the moment. Now put your hand behind your back and imagine your hand. Come to know what is actual and what is imagined. Most people conflate the two.

@GabeN It's not like a physical / scientific evidence type of thing. There is an energetic shift from seeking energy to finding/taming energy. After my first good look at the Ox, I sat dazed for hours. I was like "So thaaaaaaat's what those buddhists were talking about all those years". There was a knowing that needed no figuring out or verification. It just was. 5-meo-dmt is the best Ox bait available . . .

The video and statement is blue/orange looking at green.

I think you are assuming an external "god". I'd like to offer another set of "what ifs". . . What if Jesus was a human being that became fully enlightened and returned to society to teach others? This would be a stage 10 enlightened being with the Ox analogy. How would such an enlightened being be perceived by Bronze Age civilization? Well, in Spiral Dynamics terms, we are talking about civilization centered in purple/red. Mostly irrational, binary thinking modes of being. Could an enlightened being resonate with purple/red beings? I would imagine, yes. Could purple/red beings misinterpret higher level spiritual teachings? I would imagine, yes. Could an enlightened being appear threatening to the power structure of societal warlords and dictators? I would imagine, yes. Regarding the Ox. Who is this "us" that you think the Ox should come toward? Who is chasing the Ox? . . . The Ox story is a good analogy because most human minds are structured and conditioned to perceive duality within a timeline. There is me and the Ox. Over time, I shall seek, capture and tame the Ox. . . Well, why not just embody and be the Ox right here and now? Why not skip the epic journey / struggles and just wake up right here and now? One may need to go through their journey to discover the answer. . . Or you haven't embodied the Ox yet. . . Conceptual understanding needs to be integrated with direct experience to embody deeper levels. It doesn't sound like you've had a good look at the Ox. It sounds like you are imagining the essence of OXness as you walk along the path in search of the actual Ox.

That's a good question. I've only considered the relative human perspective. It's challenging to imagine consciousness from the relative perspective of a tree. . .

Hmmm. . . I am imagining there is One Consciousness, that fragmented itself into trillions of smaller consciousnesses and each has a self identity of that is separate from the whole. Then the name of the Game is that each fragment realizes it is within the whole. Perhaps a higher Intelligence, or Big Brain, set up that Game. I think it would be challenging to attain due to the evolution of the human brain and hundreds of years of infrastructure supporting separate self identities. But who knows, perhaps Enlightenment will "go viral".

Nice. . . Sometimes I ask my students: what percentage of the day are you immersed in stories of past and future? And what percentage is spent present with what is actually happening in the present moment? Then, I ask them to decide what percentages they would like their life to be like. So, if they say 90% past/future and 10% present moment - perhaps consider what life would be like if it was 50% past/future and 50% present. Always "being in the now" just doesn't resonate with them. It's some abstract idea that is impractical and unattainable. Yet, going from 10% in the Now to 50% in the Now is attractive to them. It's a start. . .

Yes, kind of like being an observer to multiple perspectives and being aware of relative truth in each perspective - without getting attached or identified with any perspective.

Could both be true? It seems paradoxical, yet can both perspectives coexist in the mind peacefully?

For me, being on this path of introspection and self realization has reduced a lot of my mind-body neuroses including anxiety, mild ocd and add. I’m much relaxed overall and when symptoms arise, I’m much better at calming my self down.

@VioletFlame How would you recommend someone with no artistic experience get started with creative expression? Perhaps drawing, painting or creative writing?

Psychedelics will take you 1-2 levels of consciousness higher than your current baseline level. In SD lingo that like getting rocketed from Green to solid Turquoise. . . And then the person returns to their lower base level. Then, integration is key.

Nice examples. My mind is trying to come up with another one. Perhaps, if your awareness experienced another person’s mind-body. Or, if you were transported back to 1945 and had to navigate your way around. Yet, it’s still not radical enough, because the mind can still sort of imagine it. I don’t think the mind can imagine what a psychedelic mystical experience would be like. My mind couldn’t have.

@Wisebaxter Oh my! That is not a good setting! Especially for a novice ? You could do it out in nature. I just wouldn’t want to be around lots of people. If you have anxiety issues, I would consider having a benzo or etizolam on hand. I’ve never actually used it, yet even having it handy and knowing I coukd kill the trip if I needed to, settled me down and gave me confidence.

That is beautiful, poetic. ? ?

I’m going to go back to the 1980s and say Dungeons and Dragons. When I was a teenager, I would play with my Uncle and cousins. We would play all day, all weekend. We would go really deep into imagination and character development. Each player wants to protect their own character, yet places the welfare of the group higher. Our group played as One. I still remember losing a really high level cleric in an epic battle that went on for hours. It was so stressful. We had to really pay attention and think hard to come up with the best strategy. We lost half our characters in that battle. It was mentally and emotionally draining. And when our senior cleric died, our group was devastated. That cleric took years to develop. We had so many memories with her. There were tight connections within gaming groups in the 80s. There was no internet, so we always had to get together in one person’s house to game.