Forestluv

@How to be wise Each teacher has their own style and approach. Passive aggression toward a teacher or an approach tends to contract the mind. Leo and Bryon both have value, yet they may resonate differently with different mind-bodies.

Indeed. There are many different paths. I am only an expert with one path (my own).

@Freakrik If You are within Everything, would that not include all suffering and joy?

I would be careful of defining "presence" as the cessation of thoughts, ideas and stories. By doing so, your mind is setting up an "either - or" dynamic: that there is presence or non-presence. Yet, presence is always present. There is no escape from presence. It sounds like you have experienced a form of emptiness in which the stories, thoughts, beliefs etc. dissolve. Is there awareness in this mind state? Or is more like "zoning out"? As well, it sounds like your mind is new to this experience and is contextualizing it by setting up a scenario in which a "present mind state" means no suffering and a "not present" mind state means suffering. It sounds like there is seeking energy to use this feature of "presence" to selectively eliminate suffering during "non-presence". This can cause egoic desires toward some type of goal. For example: "I want to combine presence with non-presence to end my suffering". Presence is not a place separate from non-presence. Presence is nothing and everything. It is unconditional. Presence when you are meditating. .. . presence during sadness, frustration, watching a movie, eating, thinking, arguing, having sex, taking a math exam and on and on. Yet, it's more likely it will reveal itself when the mind is quiet. It sounds like you have gotten a look of presence from a unique and fresh perspective. I would ask that attachments and identifications be revealed (not eliminated). Observe attachments and identification to thoughts and ideas as they arise through the day. Perhaps awareness will arise that those attachment and identification dynamics arise within presence. This process can be very unsettling to a mind-body that wants to be grounded. Surrendering control can be scary as well as liberating. If it is overwhelming to the mind-body, you may want to try and pull back for a bit to reduce the intensity and integrate lessons for a bit. I would do activities that relax the mind-body, such as yoga, walks in nature, watching nonduality videos etc.

@bazera Perhaps consider shamanic breathing. It's easy to do at home and many people,including myself, have reported altered states of consciousness within a few attempts. If you are interested in learning more, Leo did a video on shamanic breathing and there is a "mega-thread" on the forum.

That idea is contracted within subject-object dualism and does not integrate nonduality.

Each teacher has a different style and approach that will resonate with some minds, yet not with others. It's relative to one's mind set. The teachers that resonate with my mind now, did not resonate with my mind 5 years ago. The teachers that will resonate with my mind in 5 years do not resonate now (or they will resonate in a different manner).

If I am an idea, there is no one to make the choice whether to master something or not. There is no one to take the actions to master something. How can an idea master something? If I am an idea, the question of whether I should master something disappears. There is mastering, yet no one that takes ownership of being a master. Rather than asking if an idea can master something, what if we explore what comes prior to that idea of "me".

Who let the dogs out? Woof, woof, woof, woof, woof

When a mind is immersed within belief and judgement, it becomes contracted and is unaware of that immersion. This is much easier to see in other minds than one's own mind. Here, you are unaware that your mind is immersed within certain beliefs and judgments. Rather than being open and willing to explore this, your mind is protecting those beliefs and judgments. That is why it is not being revealed in your current mind state.

What is pointed to isn’t being revealed in your current mind state. Perhaps it will be at another time. ?

I found it helpful to do 1 strong dose and 1-2 mini doses per month. The mini-doses helped me integrate the big dose. As well, I don’t have to devote a full day to a mini dose. I’m still functional.

That recontextualizes the idea of “group sex”. ?

There is existence prior to judgement. Yet for it to be revealed, attachment and identification must dissolve.

Psychedelics are like keys to doors. Which door they unlock varies.

I’ve found it helpful to relax the mind, through a variety of tools. This can help evaporate the fog and allow greater clarity. Your description of the pills as “numbing the mind”, suggests they are not an effective tool in evaporating the fog and promoting greater clarity. Perhaps they are providing relief such that the mind-body can sit in the fog with less discomfort. It sounds like you have experienced spaces in which the egoic fog evaporates, yet then returns. Now that there is awareness of a clear mind state, the return of egoic fog can be frustrating and cause suffering. Yet as you mention, each time we return, there is a little less fog. Rather than set up a battle of “Fog vs No Fog”, perhaps you could just relax the mind and observe what arises. During meditation, perhaps some fog will roll through the mind. Hmmm, how interesting. . . Observe how the mind and body react to the fog. Is there grasping of the fog? Pushing away of the fog? Fear and insecurity within the fog? Perhaps some fog will evaporate and a clear stillness will arise. Just sit and observe that stillness. As fog gets thicker, relax and observe.

@tentacion I’ve entered the same space while in cafes. You described it very well ?

Being comes prior to proof. The first time I saw the Grand Canyon, my mind and body was overwhelmed in awe. Awareness was present, yet there were no thoughts. The brain’s thinking software was temporarily short-curcuited by something so majestic beyond comprehension. After about 30 seconds, the brain’s software repaired itself and thinking synapses were back online firing again. . . “How did the Grand Canyon arise? Was it shaped over millions of years? Did an entity help guide that process? What might that entity be and how could we perform tests to prove such an entity is real? And who would decide which tests, data and conclusions are true?” After a few minutes of this, my girlfriend turned to me and said “We’ve traveled a really long way to see the Grand Canyon. Can we just sit here for a bit and appreciate it?” The mind relaxed and there was being-ness within what IS, withought thought impulses trying to figure out what IS is.

Thanks for that info. I should have placed my comment in better context. I’m familiar with studies showing anxiety reduction for end of life patients, chronic anxiety in life and with micro-dosing. These studies were with low to moderate doses and are looking at anxiety reduction after psychedelic treatment. Studies also suggest LSD may increase synaptic plasticity allowing for new perspectives in life, which may help to reduce anxiety in one’s life - especially when coupled to psychotherapy. I was referring to anxiety during the actual trip on highish doses. LSD is not a sedative. It’s not like taking a benzo, getting a message or going to the spa. The sub-ego death zone of the trip can induce anxiety in many people and can be quite frightening. This is why many novices have trip sitters or carry a benzo to kill the trip in case the anxiety becomes overwhelming. Those studies were done on low to moderate doses and the researchers intentionally created peaceful, safe environments to help reduce anxiety during the trip. For example, a loved one and supportive psychologist was present, relaxing music was played, they layed on a comfortable bed etc. In constrast, if someone had a fear of flying and suffered anxiety, I would not recommend they take their first LSD trip during their next flight. It would more likely increase anxiety. A benzo would be better a option for this type of acute anxiety. In my personal experience, I’ve tripped about 80 times with a variety of psychedelics, a variety of doses in a variety of settings. Overall, this has reduced chronic anxiety in my life in general. I’d estimate about a 50% reduction. Yet I also do yoga and meditate regularly which also helps. Yet during the actual trip on highish doses, my anxiety tends to increase heading into the peak. As a novice, there were a few times the anxiety got so strong it turned into panic and was quite terrifying. Yet there were also periods of tranquility, connection, love and oneness during trips. I think novices should consider anxiety issues when planning trips. Dosage, mindset and setting are really important features.

Yes, there are various types of consciousness going on here. 1. There is the awareness of social consciousness as an observer. For example, someone might be watching the concert on TV and think "that group of people dancing is like a giant amoeba". Similarly, one may become aware that a tribe has a group consciousness. 2. There is awareness from an individual POV that they are within a collective consciousness. I am aware my mind-body is within a larger collective societal consciousness. 3. There is awareness from the POV of the collective consciousness of it's individual components. This is where I think it gets tricky. . . Examples: I am aware that my mind-body is composed of individual cells. The consciousness of the amoeba is aware it is composed of individual people. The consciousness of the tribe is aware that it is composed of tribal members. Here, the center of awareness IS the collective consciousness, not someone viewing it (type 1) or someone within it (type 2). 4. There is pure awareness from the POV of the collective consciousness. Here, the collective consciousness is not paying attention to the people that make up up. The collective conscious is being itself as an entity. When someone is playing soccer, they are just playing soccer. They don't think "I am a muscle cell contracting" or "I am a neuron that needs to send an action potential". The entity we call a person is playing soccer at the level of personal awareness. Similarly, the collective consciousness of the amoeba isn't thinking "I am made up of individual people". It is existing and being itself, flowing as an amoeba. The hard part to imagine is that the center of awareness is at the level of the amoeba. Personal awareness evaporates. It's not nonduality because there is a separate entity: the amoeba. Entering this conscious state and returning is really freaky. At first, it felt like I was going insane and caused a lot of anxiety. Then, it became like an out of body experience. Then it's just another level of consciousness. Yet just like cellular consciousness can't turn itself into personal consciousness, personal consciousness can't turn itself into collective consciousness. It's like personal consciousness dissolves and a totally different type of awareness enters. I think it needs to be experienced. I'd say most people can at least intellectually comprehend #s 1 and 2. #s 3 and 4 are a huge jump and need direct experience to be fully understood. I really like how you are thinking about teaching pedagogies to raise consciousness. There are relatively few yellow and turquoise level teachers. Yet, we are evolving in that direction. I see it more and more.

@Aakash That's an interesting question. The human mind is so conditioned with a personal consciousness. For beginners, I would say it's important to dissolve the personal level of consciousness to allow for other states of consciousness to enter. Yet, this may open a Pandora's Box of various conscious "flavors". A social field of consciousness is just one flavor. When I say the level of "social consciousness", I don't mean an individual being aware of social dynamics and how they inter-relate within society. I mean the social group IS one conscious entity. Perhaps "collective conscious" might be a better term. One of my experiences was at an outdoor concert, dancing within a large crowd to electronic music. There was a consciousness centered at the social level. Just as all the cells in my body make up my being, all the humans dancing made up a being. Like one giant amoeba. There was no awareness at a personal level. There were no thoughts of "wow, this is sooo cool it's like I am part of a giant amoeba of people!". Rather, the consciousness was the amoeba itself. The amoeba of people became aware of itself. I'm still learning how to relax out of the personal conscious level and into various trans-personal conscious states. Yet, it's tricky because the person steering needs to dissolve for other states to appear. I have direct experience with various conscious states, yet each one is still like a distinct category. There is "this state" and "that state". I'm still in early stages of developing integrated conscious states.

Thank you ? ☺️

@Leo Gura I have been having issues an an iphone for a while. Generally, it is intermittent- yet today was consistent. As well, today I have had access problems on my desktop running Chrome on windows 10 enterprise.

At the absolute level, these distinctions collapse. Saying one word is saying too much. At the human level, the mind is conditioned to see distinctions and create categories. This perspective, that perspective, no perspective is still a perspective, a non-perspective beyond perspectives . . . and on and on. . . This can be entertaining for a human mind, or it may provide a sense of security and comfort. There are many fascinating and beautiful ideas and concepts. Yet, problems tend to arise at the personal level not because of the appearance of thoughts, ideas and feelings, but due to attachment / identification to those thoughts, ideas and feelings. Common thought patterns within this dynamic include "My ideas are better", "I am feeling annoyed", "He doesn't understand me". As we delve deeper into the personality dynamic, attachments/identification can become very subtle and nuanced, such that there is lack of awareness. There may be just a subconscious sense of attachment/identification. This is why practice and direct experience is so important. At deeper levels of maturity, these insights become embodied and integrated into holistic being.

We are all intimately familiar with consciousness at the individual / personal level. There is also a social level of consciousness. As an analogy, we could say each cell in your body has a level of individual consciousness. Each cell can sense and respond to other cells in their environment. Each cell has behavior that is influenced by their environment. Yet, they are unaware that there is a higher social cellular consciousness at the personal level. Collectively, all cells give rise to. . . you. Consciousness at the organismal level. At this level, the organism is aware of itself and has behavior that is influenced by their environment. Yet, just as a cell is unaware of consciousness at the organismal level, an organism is unaware of consciousness at the social level. Entry into tier 2 in the SD model involves transcending personal consciousness. From here, social consciousness can reveal itself.