Forestluv

So does that mean once I become fluent in bird chirping I won’t be able to convey nonduality to my bird friends? ? ?

@How to be wise Keep deconstructing that story. It keeps getting better. It sounds like you’ve got momentum with The Work. ? ♥️

@How to be wise Nice insight and thanks for sharing it. What you tapped into is a big block against expanding one’s capacity to love. Something I’ve had to work through myself. ♥️

@Mikael89 Be mindful about assuming, misinterpreting and manipulating another’s sentiment to fit your ego’s narrative. It is disingenuinous and can be toxic at both individual and community levels. p.s. my username is refective of my background in neuroscience. Serotonergic neural pathways are fascinating to me.

Yes, for me as well. ? ?

@Arhattobe Thank you. One thing I like about your perspective is that you are in tune with energetic systems and how psychedelics can adversely effect them. I have experienced some adverse effects in this area as well. Unfortunately, science has not caught up with immaterial energetic systems and often dismiss it as “woo woo”. Most scientists want to reduce everything down physical molecules which limits the ability to investigate the inter-connectivity between immaterial energy and material molecules. As well, I think a lot of people are immature and irresponsible with psychedelic use and can get bit in the ass. Clinical psychedelic therapy studies have involved patients that already had extensive psychotherapy, the psychedelics were given in a calm supportive setting and the patients continued psychotherapy to help integrate the lessons. That type of environment is totally different than someone buying psychedelics online or from a dealer to treat their depression on their own. You also mentioned “too much too soon”, which is an important variable. Patients in the studies only used moderate doses, only had a few sessions and were given time between sessions to integrate with their psycologist. Most armchair psychedelic users don’t have this type of support system and should be particularly careful in designing their own psychedelic plan.

I understand that. What I’m saying is that it is inaccurate and misleading to extrapolate a relative truth into an objective universal truth. I have acknowledged your relative direct experience. Rather than dismissing it as “just your relative truth”, I have accepted it as being as true as my own direct experience. They both are true and both have value. However, it would be inaccurate and misleading to suggest either of our direct experience is objective universal truth. Part of my laboratory research is developing psychoplastogens, including 5-meo, as therapeutic medicine. I am very interested in those that experience adverse effects. That is extremely important in forming criteria for which patients are good candidates for psychedelics, and which psychedelic might be most beneficial. As well, I am collaborating with a team of bochemists to modify psychedelics to reduce adverse effects. We are aware there are relative adverse effects and take it seriously.

You suggest meth and 5-meo are both addictive and suggest a false equivalency. The analogy is misleading. It’s like saying arsenic and Vitamin C are both toxic to the body. One is a poison, one is a vitamin Meth and 5-meo are completely different compounds. One is classified as a neural toxin and one is classified as a neural psychoplastogen (which is like a brain vitamin). Yet as you mention, there are potential adverse effects for some people under certain conditions. We need to seriously consider that as we expand the use of psychedelics in therapy and spirituality. We want to help, not harm.

You are speaking with limited knowledge and direct experience and extrapolating that into an objective truth which is inaccurate and at times spreads misinformation. The neural networks of meth and 5-meo are completely different. Meth is an extremely strong agonist of the dopamine reward pathway and addiction arises because the body responds to meth-induced hyper activation by downregulating the pathway. 5-meo is not involved in this pathway, it has a completely different effect on brain chemeistry through serotonergic patways. It has much much lower addiction porential than any drug that activates the reward pathway. Furthermore, meth is classified as a neural toxin while 5-meo is classified as a psychoplastogen (which is good). 5-meo has been scientifically shown to stimulate neural plasticity and neural regeneration.

Great, you have some limited direct experience with 5-meo. Your relative experience has value, yet be mindful of extrapolating that limited personal relative experience as an objective universal truth. Your subjective experience may resonate and be true for some, yet not others. Similarly, in my direct experience 5-meo is a powerful spiritual tool. Yet, I realize this is my personal relative experience. This will resonate and be true for some, yet not for others - such as yourself and your friends you mentioned. Your relative truth is as true as my relative truth - so it would be inaccurate to say one of us is right and the other wrong. As well, it would be misleading to say that 5-meo is either beneficial or harmful. It’s relative and depends on the person.

What is your direct experience with 5-meo? I have 20+ years of meditation experience and have used 5-meo about 30 times. I would love to discuss what each practice has to offer with someone who has significant direct experience with both meditation and 5-meo.

I tried to teach that to my bird students and they don’t get it ?

?? For me, somewhere near Santa Cruz ? ?

Isn’t Being a state between Colorado and Utah? ?

There is egoic desire and universal Desire. There is a desire from reality to discover and experience itself. This is beyond egoic desire. The ego can only surrender, so far. Then truth may arise from grace. Or maybe not. I’ve surrendered all control at that point.

You won’t know if you don’t try. Part of my spiritual practice is to teach, and learn from, animals in nature. What I’ve found is that if I let go of my specism and open myself up, there is a form of speaking between animals and myself that goes deeper than human cognition. Entering non-human realities are powerful lessons for me.

@Preetom Breakthrough experiences can be really intense and can be difficult to integrate. It’s been over a month since my last 5-meo breakthrough and I still haven’t felt a desire to return. As well, your ideas suggest a goal: “to forget the experience of duality and become enlightened”. For me, I reached a point where that self-seeking energy began to dissolve and was replaced by a universal seeking energy. If the universal consciousness wants to have a breakout 5-meo experience through my mind-body, it will. If not, it won’t. As well, we are learning through science that 5-meo stimulates neuronal plasticity, allowing rewiring of the brain. Ime, this can be a good thing, yet it is a powerful tool I have a lot of respect for and want to use it responsibly are with care. With that said, my baseline state of consciousness can regress. I can maintain it through practices like kriya yoga, meditation or a small amount of 5-meo for a little boost back up.

?? Exactly. And that bird is on the same level as you. Tweet. ? ♥️

You are deeply immersed within a story. The ego sets up a defense mechanism to protect the story. Developing to the next stage would require sincerity, humility, willingness, openness and surrender. You are not at this point. You think you are right and want someone else to prove you wrong. This is a nasty trap. The burden of proof is not on the other person, the burden of proof is on you. You must question your own beliefs and through sincere practice humbly ask that the truth be revealed to you. Then surrender and open yourself to what may be revealed.

Waking states and lights are also concepts. My point is, this is all relatively true to a human mind. It’s not relatively true to a snake, flower or rock. Human minds assume our relative reality and concepts are better and more relevant than other species.

Deep sleep itself is a concept.

That is specism.

In the deepest sense, our shared being can be shared. I don’t think I could share concepts and images about deep sleep similarities to a bird.

That is a great question. I’ve been spending time with birds and nature exploring what I can communicate and teach them. This has helped reveal concepts that are relative to a human mind. In turn, I try to let go of my specism and be an open student to the lessons they can teach me.

Ok, so you are speaking of a consciousness relative to humans. Yet even that would be a consciousness relative to a subset of humans. Larely, I’ve been exploring an absolute consciousness that has no relativity. It would be equally applicable to humans, birds, trees etc.