Forestluv

I can’t find that requirement in my enlightenment rule book. I thought I got an officially certified version, yet now I’m not so sure ?‍♂️

@DrewNows @mandyjw Nice thoughts and questions. I think it gets tricky using the term psycological. Our primitive limbic system evolved prior to our capacity for rational thought in the frontal lobe. Other mammals have this system - it orients the organism toward survival. In particular, the amygdala stimulates fear. It seems in the human mind-body the limbic system is still a driver toward survival. Experience gets imbedded into it and is generally subconscious. There is also crosstalk with the rational processing center in the frontal lobe that creates “the story”. Of course these are just concepts, yet I think they have practical use.

That would flow me straight to the ER

Maybe during surfing

@mandyjw Hmmm. . . I'd say that the ego is fear-based and the source of the vast majority of what we call fear. Yet, it seems some fear may be instinctual - programmed into us via evolution. For example, most animals intuitively know not to jump off a cliff. . . . Most cats held outside a third story window would freak out in fear.

For sure, flow states can be enlightening. I guess it depends on who one talks to, yet my understanding of flow is that there needs to be a mind-body proficiency with the activity so the mind-body can just "let go" and do it's thing. For example, I would not be able to reach a flow state riding a skateboard or horse - I'd be stressed out worrying about falling off. In contrast, I can downhill ski without even thinking about it. I've gone into cool micro flow states skiing. I like how Steven Kotler describes flow - that there is proficiency of the activity and also an element of risk that synergize.

@mandyjw Yes, indeed! I've also been a long-distance runner and know that transcendent mind space while running long distances. I think if long distance running resonated with someone it could be an avenue to process and integrate experiences, even psychedelic ones. These are the true "runners" that run for running sake. Yet, I think there are also those that run just to work out, lose weight or compete to win. They don't seem to have the same spirituality of running mindset. I question how well it would work for them.

@Arhattobe I think we help balance each other out. Thanks for your input

I'm not a specialist with trauma, yet my basic understanding is that one needs to be cautious when "going there". Re-experiencing the trauma can be counter-productive and cause further mental harm. As well, psychedelics can open doors and unleash repressed emotions and experiences. It can be really difficult to work through and integrate these experiences solo. Unfortunately, there aren't many options to work with psychedelics and trained professionals. The positive clinical studies were done with patients that had already had psychotherapy, were only given moderate doses of psychedelics in a controlled environment for about 3 sessions that were spaced apart. And the patients continued to receive top-notch therapy to help integrate the revelations. It's a totally different situation than a person going it alone. Yet, I think the good news is that once you work your way through this ordeal and form a stable foundation, you might be able to recontextualize your previous psychedelic experiences. They might offer insights in the future.

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@Arhattobe I’m not saying chronic use of psychedelics never contribute to adverse health conditions. I am saying they can be one factor of many. They can be a major facor, mininal factor and even a non-factor. As well, people like Ball have had hundreds of trips without significant adverse health effects. Others may have adverse effects after only a few uses. Others, no ill effects. It’s a complex issue and we are just beginning to study psychedelics. This is one reason the schedule I restriction on psychedelic research should be lifted. Personally, I would not recommend anyone do long-term heavy use of psychedelics. I think the risks are too high. In general, too much of anything is not a good thing.

@Arhattobe I’ve read his fb page. He has had insomnia since childhood and attributes this bout of insomnia to thought loops and deep emotion issues he needs to work through. He is going through imnense suffering and, personally, and I think ine needs to be careful about making assumptions and using him as an anti-psychedelic example. The psychedelics are likely one factor of many. I’ve met many people that have tripped hundreds of times without mind-body illness. There are tribes in which tripping is part of their lifestyle. It’s not just the psychedelics. There are multiple factors, it’s context dependent and it’s a complex issue. Honesty is not making assumptions. Honesty is observing with an open mind with a genuine interest for truth. Then, doing research to learn the truth. Part of the problem with psychedelic research is that they are mis-categorized as schedule I, which severly cripples our ability to study psychedelics and develop them as the safest medicine possible. Our current evidence clearly show psychedelics are not inherently harmful. They are harmful for some people under some circumstances.

@moon777light I’ve also had a life history of insomnia. Ime, psychedelics make the insomnia slightly worse

@Arhattobe Yes, there can be side effects from psychedelics, such as hppd. Yet these are rare cases of certain individuals with extreme use. I think it’s an overstatement to use terms like “obvious” and “common sense”. People often assume correlation means causation. As well, moderate use of psychedelics are rated one of the safest substances. I think it’s important to do our best to have a nonbiased, fair perspective. There is an inaccurate stigma that psychedelics are universally harmful, which is challenging to correct at that social level.

@Arhattobe How was it determined the condition was soley due to psychedelic use? Or is this an assumption? I’m not saying it wasn’t a factor, yet insomnia can be a complex condition with many inputs. High doses have been shown to cause acute insomnia, while micro doses may reduce insomnia. What data are you using to conclude Ball’s chronic insomnia is caused by previous psychedelic use?

A complex collection of dynamic memories and mind-body impulses that have been socially conditioned to yield an illusory personality that exists within an artificial construct of a timeline and is referred to as "me".

@InfinitePotential Well said. . . An idea just popped in my head - inspired by your avatar and post. Imagine there is a foreign planet. The beings on this planet struggle with the concept of "glabosh". There are those that insist "glabosh" is essential to life and those that believe there is no "glabosh" in life. Before I introduced the idea of "glabosh" to you, it did not exist in your mind. You had no internal struggle of "glabosh" vs "no glabosh". You never even considered it because it didn't exist. The mind had to first conceive of it.

@Identity My sense is you may be off-balance with theory and practice. It sounds like you have a lot of theory. Perhaps devoting more time toward practice would be helpful. More time in things like meditation and yoga. As well, I found it helpful to have about three teachers that complement each other. For example, one teacher may be more head-centered, while another teacher is more heart-centered.

@oysterman There are different ways to interpret situations and different approaches toward spiritual growth. I appreciate your perspective - in particular about trying to understand the relative mind-body state of the individual, the importance of devoting time to integration, the value of slowing down when intensity reaches a breaking point and using a gentle approach in some situations. My impression of the situation presented here overlaps with yours, yet also differs a bit. I sense that there is considerable discomfort, yet not to the same intensity as you. Discomfort can be a huge asset in spiritual development, it can also be a huge deterrent. I would agree with you that this thread of advice could use a bit more support, connection and empathy to be balanced. In general, I think the forum can get a bit tilted toward head-centered awakening at the expense of heart-centered awakening. As well, a tilt toward masculine energy over feminine energy. A more supportive / empathetic approach can be helpful, yet it could also allow one to get back to into a comfort zone and lose momentum. . .

If psychedelics don't resonate with you, I would discontinue their use and immerse myself in other spiritual practices such as meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation, journaling, yoga etc. As well, getting involved in a spiritual group can be helpful. I would suggest watching Leo's video on "65 principles for a good life", establishing a daily spiritual practice and developing a foundation.

What happens when those distinctions break down? What if there was no distinction between "knowing" and "not knowing"? What might that BE like? Rather than spinning on intellectual wheels, perhaps practice self-inquiry of "What is knowing". During your meditations, sit in silence with the question. Don't go off on intellectual tangents. When knowing arises in your direct experience, observe it without trying to figure it out. What dynamics play out in your mind and body. Get curious, relax and observe. It seems your mind is safer intellectualizing than simply being what is. I can relate, that dynamic often appears in my mind as well.

@Harikrishnan I was just making a big picture observation, rather than evaluating this particular individual. Yes, someone can be centered in one stage and use some features of a higher stage to support their lower center of consciousness. The underlying intention and motivation is more important than the surface-level expression. For example, a politician may say that addressing climate change is important. At a surface-level, this would appear to be a Green level. Yet if their underlying motivation is to improve their poll ratings and gain more power, they are orange-centered.

One can evolve upward within religions. There are intellectual orange-level Muslims, Christians, Buddhists etc. Religion can be a path toward awakening and Turquoise modes of being. The current center of consciousness for most religions is blue, yet individuals are by no means restricted to blue.

What is there prior to that information?

Consider that we can observe at an individual level as well as at a collective level. The forum is comprised of individual personalities that are evolving. As well, there is a single collective forum consciousness that is also evolving. Each individual user on the forum is within One collective forum consciousness.