Forestluv

@Ethan_05 I would observe belief dynamics playing in the mind regarding meditation. What is your mind-body relationship with meditation? For me, I had always believed seated meditation for extended periods was the foundation of spirituality and personal growth. This was reinforced over and over again during my life. Over the years, I've developed knee and back problems. Yet I must persist with the meditation. Any resistance, of course, is my ego which must surrender. No pain, no gain I suppose. Recently, I've begun to question this. . . I recently started doing Yin Yoga. My first session was deep surrender and presence. It resonated with my mind, body and spirit and felt so natural. Then I thought, why the heck am I harming my body through static seated meditation, when yin yoga is so much deeper and healthier for my mind, body and spirit? I never even considered there could be a *real* meditation practice outside of traditional static seated meditation. I've been doing yin yoga every morning and evening - it comes totally natural to me and has deepened my meditative space. I would suggest observing whether you have this hardcore standard of what meditation *should* be like. What qualifies as truly meditating. And explore what resonates with your mind-body. Perhaps a couple days of seated meditation a week plus a couple days of kriya yoga, kundalini, vinyassa etc, a week. I've found yoga to complement seated meditation quite well.

Relationships can have complex dynamics. They can be a mixture of unhealthy aspects and beautiful magic. Sometimes one has to ask themself if they are willing to continue playing the dynamics game they are in to keep it going.

There's nuthin' quite like a paranormal orgasm . . . You got a glimpse into something beyond the story.

Perhaps the moral of the story is to just surrender. . .

We are all in this together. Much love.

Last month, a live squirrel got into my bedroom. I tried to catch it without causing harm to the squirrel or myself. It was in full panic. I finally caught it in a blanket, then got it into a large plastic bucket. By the time I got it outside, it had nerved itself to death. The ultimate detachment. I didn't know it was possible to die of panic.

Correct. There are some appearances humans label as "knowledge" that my mind-body accepts and has no interest in verifying for myself. For example, my mind-body has no desire to drink HCL to verify it will damage the body's mouth, esophagus and G.I. tract. There are other appearances labeled as knowledge that my mind-body does not accept one way or the other and has no interest in verifying myself. For example, my colleague said there were donuts in the staff office this morning before I arrived at work. And there is still other knowledge that my mind-body desires to verify through direct experience. For example, that yin yoga can release myofascial tension within the body.

The end is the beginning. Nothing. At the human level, all sorts of stories about purpose and meaning in life can arise.

@Ethankahn Conceptual keys to expansion can become locks of contraction.

You ARE it.

@Ethankahn If you believe the thoughts, it is so.

Ultimately, you will keep ending up at Everything / Nothing. As soon as one word or thought arises, a distinction arises. All words and thoughts are distinctions. The mind is trying to separate a thing from the whole. This creates misalignment. There is no escape from the whole. Imagine if a person believed each of their 10 fingers were separate beings - each finger had their own personality, opinions, needs etc. And each finger was in conflict with other fingers. The pinky thinks the thumb is so arrogant and the left forefinger gets all the attention. Sometimes the ring finger teams up with the middle finger and bullies a pinky. . . This would lead to tension. If the fingers realized they were part of a higher order, interconnected being, things would flow much smoother. The fingers can work together as one hand. The hand can work connected to the muscular, skeletal and nervous system. Now, those fingers can do magnificent things, like play Flamenco Sketches on a trumpet. . . Does this higher order being still have 10 fingers? Of course. If one of the fingers is cut, will the higher order being clean the finger and put a bandaid on it? Of course. Yet, there won't be the nonsense bickering between fingers. Similarly, each of us is inter-connected. We are like neurotransmitters to each other within a higher order being.

It seems like you are processing insights. There is a process that leads to maturation and embodiment.

Indeed. Nonduality / awareness / presence IS, regardless of whether the mind-body is sitting in complete peace or freaking out as the plane crashes. It seems a lot of beings are attracted to nonduality hoping to get relief from stress, depression, anxiety etc.

The idea of sameness requires a timeline and separation. There is a separate thing that is now the same as it was earlier in the timeline. Nothing wrong with that. Yet, when the timeline is dropped, sameness dissolves. There is just now. There is no "before" to compare it to.

You seem to be conflating theory, direct experience and embodiment.

Turquoise is a stage within a theoretical framework of Spiral Dynamics.

I know what red and green lights mean at intersections while I'm driving. . . . I know I shouldn't drink hydrochloric acid while I'm working in the lab. . . Knowledge can come in handy at times. I'd say it becomes a problem when there is attachment and identification to knowledge.

@Ethankahn Turquoise isn't nonstop full-on nonduality. There are many flavors and facets to explore. For example, I would consider being within a collective conscious to be Turquoise, as well as some paranormal areas.

An individual person is not completely in any one stage. For example, someone could be centered in Orange yet have aspects of Blue and Green. As well, they could get occassional glimpses into yellow and perhaps even Turquoise. As well, there are different developmental lines such as cognitive, emotional, spiritual. Someone could be cognitively centered in Orange, and be emotionally centered in Red or Blue. Regarding Buddha, consider his upbringing and adolescence. How was his mind-body oriented before his awakening? I sense quite a bit of Green - in terms of compassion, empathy and human connection.

?? The same concept that was the key to a door to a deeper level can then become a lock, trapping us.

I've been perusing a few journals and I'm really impressed by how genuine they are. So many people are sincerely seeking inner truth and to improve themselves. It's humbling for me to read at times. And it is beautiful. It inspires me. One common thing that has limited my expansion is an inner insecurity, not "being ______ enough" and limiting beliefs. These are some of the first things we hear about when starting personal development. Yet a surface-level awareness only pulls out the weeds, it doesn't get to the root. I've found these dynamics go really deep into my psyche. So much of my life had been shaped by wanting to avoid experiencing these energies that felt uncomfortable. And I'm not just talking about the big, obvious stuff. For example, being afraid to ask out a guy or gal one likes or avoiding a job interview. This is obvious fear of rejection. Yet, it goes much deeper and influences small actions we take each day. These subtle influences go under our awareness radar. They add up to be a big mover of one's life. One of my deep insecurities was that I wasn't smart enough. It doesn't really matter how it got programmed into me. It's been there since I was a kid and has influenced how I perceived life. Sometimes I was aware of it, yet usually it was below the radar. It was like wind in my sail directing my travels. It influenced my career, who I dated, people I interacted with, how I interacted with people and on and on. No amount of external validation was able to dissolve this insecurity. I got bachelors degree. Still there. I got a PhD in molecular biology. Still there. I did a post-doc, won awards, got grant money. Still there. I became a professor. Still freaking there. I still wasn't a good enough professor, like the others. I wasn't bringing in enough grant money. I still had to prove myself to others. So many ways I interacted in life was influenced by this insecurity. I never had the confidence to be me. One thing that helped me reach a deeper level of awareness was student evaluations my first couple of years. A recurring eval would sound something like this "Dr. X is super smart, yet he is incapable of communicating with students like a regular person". I would dismiss the part about me being smart, since they were students and couldn't really tell if I was truly smart or not. . . The part that got me was the inability to connect with students. This was so true and baffled me. I failed out, dropped out and got kicked out of several undergraduate institutions. I know their struggle. I experienced it and could relate. Yet, I couldn't connect. The big block was this dang insecurity of not being smart enough. My inner self was more motivated to present a persona of an intellectual professor to my students and colleagues. It created a huge gap of separation. One of my breakthroughs was realizing I'm kinda good at certain intellectual things and I kinda suck at other intellectual things. Once I accepted that, there was a huuuge relief. I no longer had to carry on this charade of being smart in every area. I could utilize my strengths and I was ok with my weaknesses. This was a game-changer in terms of my career. For example, I am a natural abstract thinker. I naturally see big picture, integrate and connect dots. Conceptualizing comes naturally. However, I suck at memorization, remembering details, people's names, dates and facts. I often forget who, when and where the great scientific discoveries were made. Yet, I know why the experiment was so elegant and creative. I know why it was a big deal, how it opened up doors and the impact it had in the larger context. . . I can't memorize all the proteins involved in photosynthesis and I have no interest in doing so. I can look it up in a book. Yet, the energy dynamics from photon, to photo systems, to electron carriers to concentration and electrical gradients is fascinating. That is the art. That is the awe. That is the magnificence. . . It's like I'm finally teaching like who I am and what I think is most relevant. Not like how I think a teacher should be like. That is what's needed to reach the next level. Then the next level and next level. Before long, one realizes they are free to express themself, pursue inner interests and has developed their own style that is unique and magnificent.

Direct experience reveals the distinction. It's not something one figure's out through thinking.

Yes, there are subtler egos and identities the deeper one goes. There can be a mixture of self and trans-self seeking energy. Yet, the direct experience of pure trans-personal desire is very distinct from self-need based desire.

It depends on the developmental level of the person and the underlying source of motivational energy. For a mind-body immersed in the personality, the seeking energy of the things you mentioned could all be self-need based seeking energy. Once one breaks through to deeper levels there can be energic shifts toward the trans-personal.