Forestluv

@noselfnofun Ime, the really deep stuff started arising when I reached upper Green of maturity on the SD scale. Before then, egoic attachements and identifications to the story were too strong.

@alankrillin There is an opportunity to expand here, yet you don't have interest in exploring and expanding into a new space. You've declined my invitation and I respect that.

I'm learning that when the mind-body deeply relaxes, new realms are revealed. Last night during Yin Yoga my mind-body went deeper and deeper into relaxation. It seemed like I was fully relaxed, yet then some body spots further relaxed. A stray thought dissolved. Micro tensions I would normally be unaware of melted. And then pure energy was present. I've been *trying* for about six months to get in touch with "energy" dynamics. In this deeply relaxed state the energy surfaced. Then things transformed into a "paranormal" realm. My hands started getting tingly sensations. The yoga teacher says if you start tingling, you have gone too deep and need to pull back. The pose was so perfectly perfect and there was disappointment I needed to pull out of it. Then the tingly energy in my hands transformed into a warm sensation - as if I was holding a cup of hot chocolate. This caught my attention as an odd happening and it seemed like it was ok to stay in the pose. Here is the odd part. . . there was a knowing that "you did that". This was a different frequency than I'd ever been in tune with. Attention was brought back to my hands and the warming energy transformed back into tingly energy with a knowing that "I did that". Usually, my mind-body would be too pre-occupied to observe this. . . Then mind-body became one entity and transformed the energy back to warm. And then to tiny pops of energy, then flares of energy, then swirling energy. Then the exploration began. . . -- I noticed a muscle in the body that started to spasm and cramp. Rather than moving to relieve it, attention was directed to it and transformed the energy to a slight burning energy and then willed it to relax. -- The body started getting cold and shivering. The shiver energy was transformed to a type of soothing energy and the body was no longer cold or shivering. -- The body became hollow. There were no organs, bones etc. Deep breaths filled the hollow cavity. -- Breath was directed to body parts to relieve tension. -- Body parts were massaged -- Muscles were willed to totally relax so tension in tendons and ligaments could be dissolved -- I went deeper and deeper into a back bend. What normally would have been pain and discomfort was transformed into a neutral packet of energy. I realized I was bent waaaaay further than I ever have. Then I realized I could tear tendons, ligaments and muscles without feeling "pain". I didn't even know if tearing body parts in the bend. -- During savasana, all the energy dynamics throughout the body were integrated into one whole. It felt so amazingly healthy. There was a consciousness participating in all of this. Transforming the mind-body. Afterwards, I spent the next hour stunned. "What just happened?". What an amazing exploration.

@Key Elements Some nice insights. Thank you ?

It’s not a personal comnent. It is a trans-personal observation. Egoic dynamics involve a strong sense of “you” and “me”. An ego will try to maintain and protect that division. It is necessary for the ego’s own survival, yet causes a sense of separation and unease.

5meo offers new and novel experience and perspective.

Ahhh nice. Does the dream character Paul wake up? Or does the higher consciousness thatvis dreaming of Paul wake up? As long as Paul is immersed in his character and playing Paul, there will not be awakening because there is the underlying assumption that he and his world is real. Imagine Paul goes seeking for enlightenment. He spends his days in libraries reading, in meditation centers and yoga studios. He listens to nonduality speakers on youtube. Yet, he just can’t seem to wake himself up. . . That’s because he is immersed within the dream and trying to wake up himself, Paul. Yet Paul is a dream character within the dream. A dream character doesn’t wake up. The higher consciousness wakes up and realizes it’s a dream (in this analogy the person who is dreaming of Paul). Similarly, one’s “real life” character cannot wake up to the dream as long as that character is immersed and identified as being that character. It’s a similiar dynamic, just a conscious level higher.

The direct experience and insights of 5-meo is not what a sober mind imagines it might be like. A mind-body needs the direct experience to understand.

@alankrillin There is a contracted mental narrative your self is attached to and identified with.

Post-egoic powers are post-egoic.. . It’s like saying I want to experience skydiving while still holding on to the airplane. An ego needs to surrender for post-egoic phenomena to be revealed.

Chill out on the personal remarks. Leo is teaching at a PhD level for free. We are incredibly fortunate. Be grateful and don’t bite the hand that feeds us. . .

@Leo Gura Adderall is popular with college students as a potent performance booster. I’m aware of it’s neurological effects. I’m just curious if Modinfinil is in the same league. Adderall is amphetamines and has a much lower neurotoxicity profile than methamphetamine.

@Leo Gura How would you compare Modinfinil vs. Adderall as cognititive performance boosters?

To me, it seems like you two are growing apart as a new stage of life emerges. To stay together, I think the two of you would need to come together - have heart-to-heart talks and create a new level of commitment. For all you know, she was just experimenting with a new college atmosphere - new friends, parties etc. The excitement of newness may have worn off and a deeper stronger connection of your relationship is emerging. Or, she could be drifting off a new path that is unsettling and she has some residual feelings for the relationship that gives her a sense of comfort. If you decide to stay together, it will probably involve some work that you two haven't had to do before. I had a similar situation. In high school, we were super close and in love. Then after a couple years of college she changed. I didn't really know her anymore. She started wearing leather jackets, lots of make-up and big hair with lots of fritzy stuff. I was like "who is this?".

Very nice. . . One step further. . . notice how thoughts of yesterday and tomorrow are impulses that are occurring right now. Similar to how bird chirps are impulses occurring right now.

He is blue - orange. Once one reaches high Orange, they will lose interest with debating him. At Green, he becomes the bad guy that is causing division, marginalization and inequality in America. At Yellow, he is seen within an integrative, systemic meta view.

Great quote. This was one of my realizations while I was strolling through nature. "Who is the knower of me?" Then there was awareness of the knower. "Well then, who knows the knower of me?" Then there is awareness of the knower of the knower of me. On and on it went into an insanity zone and then suddenly it all blew up and there was silence and peace. . .

The two are inter-related. My impression is that you have had direct experience with both trans-egoic and trans-rational conscious states. From an egoic state of consciousness, the underlying energy of "will" is driven primarily to satisfy needs and self survival. There is an energetic shift of "will" at a trans-egoic state. Have you experienced a state of consciousness in which the personality is within a more expansive consciousness? Or the personal consciousness dissolves and there is a higher consciousness? Perhaps a sense of collective consciousness or "oneness" - in which the center of consciousness is no longer perceived as a contracted personal consciousness restricted within the brain? At first, this freaked me out and caused anxiety and panic. I had no idea what "it" might do to "me". Yet, with time and experience it becomes normalized. Once one reaches tier 2 various levels of relativity is revealed. For example, imagine you are at a concert dancing in a crowed area and "lose yourself". The crowd becomes this giant amoeba and the center of consciousness is this collective consciousness - the amoeba. Is that absolute or relative? Well, the individual human consciousness has dissolved, so it isn't relative in that sense. Yet at a higher level, isn't the amoeba relative? It's just one little old collective consciousness - there are countless other collective consciousnesses occuring. So, it is just one relative collective conscious. So, the fun part. . . does that collective amoeba have a free will? As you asked. . . is this free will illusory? I don't know. That is what I am currently exploring - similar to how I explored the nature of an egoic free will years ago. At the absolute level, perhaps there is one infinite intelligence and one will. Yet, that is beyond my understanding. In the strictest sense, the absolute is everything, so it cannot be referred to as any thing. Yet, in a sense that is a cop-out answer. A more honest answer is I don't know. Absolute and relative is a bimodal categorization. It's super helpful, yet we can add distinctions if we want to go that route. For example, I like to think of nonduality as a series of layers. The amoeba example I gave above is a form of nonduality - individual egos dissolve and a collective ego is revealed. Yet, it is not the ultimate oneness, nothingness, emptiness of nonduality. When I saw things as either dual or nondual, I was missing out on a lot of stuff that is an integration between the two.

I am not labeling you as misleading. That would suggest intention. I said the statement is misleading from the psychedelic perspective.

Yes, I understand and my answer remains the same.

I participated in that thread and my answer was definitely not "no" and I don't recall anyone in that thread with psychedelic awakenings as answering a direct "no". Based on my awakenings with and without psychedelics, I find the statement to be misleading from the psychedelic perspective. It may make sense from a strict non-psychedelic perspective, yet it is untenable when both psychedelic and non-psychedelic perspectives are considered. This is just my perspective based on integration of extensive spiritual direct experience with and without psychedelics. Yet, I am not a spokesperson of truth. There may be others with extensive spiritual experience both with and without psychedelics that have differing direct experience and views.

Negative visceral reactions to homsexuality is socially conditioned into the mind-body. It's at a red-blue level on the SD scale. The thinking associated with it is pre-rational. This irrationality is easily exposed through entry-level Orange rational thinking, yet underlying emotional residue may remain until stage Green. It is a highly contracted state of consciousness causing fragmentation of the psychological self. My mind-body was conditioned in a religious environment to perceive homosexuality as immoral. Once I went to an Orange-centered college, my mind easily worked through the irrationality of it and to respect the personal choices of others (features of Orange). Yet, it wasn't until stage Green that I worked through deeper dynamics of my own person sexuality. As Leo says: "Your level of happiness depends on your capacity to love". . . Want to expand your happiness? Then, expand your capacity to love. . .

It depends on the person and intention. I can enter unique meditative spaces in SD tanks. They have taken me to out of body experiences, revealed how various components of my brain and mind interact with each other, and to the place before I was born. Yet, I've had experience with meditation and mind altering substances. I've known people that have had very insightful experiences, others that worried the whole time about what "should" happen, others that got bored, others that fall asleep, others that found it extremely relaxing. That is a fair (but not great) price. If you live in the U.S., there are often groupon half-price deals. If you pursue this, I've written guides for first-timers on the forum if you are interested.

@Aakash "spiral dynamics or enlightenment, which to choose to move forward?" Based on choice and moving forward within the timeline, that would be SD. Yet, my hunch is deep down you want to come back home to the wholeness of what is Now.

This is a nice explanation of relative, personal consciousness based on a materialist framework. There are other levels of consciousness as well.