Forestluv

I’d give the same answer

If by “fully enlightened” you are suggesting a thing a person attains or becomes, the answer would be “no”. It’s like asking: “Is a drop of water fully ocean?”.

@Ghauss There is ego need-based seeking. As you said, it is inherently meaningless and can only provide temporary states of relief. There is also a deeper seeking energy that is not ego need based. It is post-egoic. It is a motivating desire to experience the magnificence of life.

@Mezanti The mind-body often resists letting go of separation. For me, there is resistance to what is unknown and that I’ll go to the point of no return. My mind-body has relaxed with more nondual experience. A gradual knowing that nothing “bad” will happen and that it won’t be stuck in a nondual state of consciousness permanently.

I would point them to nondual glimpses they’ve already had in their direct experience. I would use as few concepts as possible.

@Tony 845 Pace yourself for a marathon, not a sprint ☺️

Only if a panther is chasing the person in a dark jungle. I hope you realize that each “what’s it like to be enlightened?” question adds 17 days to how long until you become enlightened. ?

I want a Baxter doll. ?

That is a common reaction. You may get called back or you may get drawn to personal desires. I would follow your true desires. I spent years pretending I was a “spiritual” character. People told ne to “fake it until I make it”. Yet my heart and true desire wasn’t really into it. Looking back it was kinda counter-productive. I would just be mindful not to hurt others. For example, I would refrain from misleading and/or manipulating women to satisfy sexual desires. The “Love Is a Battlefield” game takes a big toll on the mind-body.

Realization of The Story and that something exists beneath The Story is a profound realization, yet only one aspect of awakening. A child without a conditioned story and identity has a clear conscience state of one aspect. Similarly, a dog has a clear conscious state from one aspect. Yet those are hairs on the Ox’s tail. That realization opens a door - to many conscious states to awaken to. Also, there are other doors. Those are a couple of rooms in a Grand Hotel.

@Cortex ?? ?‍♂️

Try it out and see how it fits ya.

@Aakash It is as if you are trying to catch a flying eagle and put it in a cage to own it. Turquoise doesn’t work like that. I would focus on practice and direct experience. Let go as much as you can and open yourself to what might be revealed. Communication in Turquoise realms is very different than traditional communication. Imagine the whole world was blind and everyone in history was blind. One night you are hanging out with soneone and suddenly the two of you can see. Your mode of communication would dramatically change. It would be beyond anything you could imagine. Only you and the other person would understand it. How could you explain it to the blind people? This is much more radical than you are aware of.

Logic is the domain of Orange. Turquoise is three conscious levels higher. Logic is within Turquoise, yet is much more expansive. Try to explain your what your neighborhood is like without using any words that contain a vowel. It’s really hard to do, no?

The koala (Phascolarctos cinereus) is an arboreal herbivorous marsupial native to Australia. It is the only extantrepresentative of the family Phascolarctidae and its closest living relatives are the wombats, which comprise the family Vombatidae. The koala is found in coastal areas of the mainland's eastern and southern regions, inhabiting Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, and South Australia. It is easily recognisable by its stout, tailless body and large head with round, fluffy ears and large, spoon-shaped nose. The koala has a body length of 60–85 cm (24–33 in) and weighs 4–15 kg (9–33 lb). Pelage colour ranges from silver grey to chocolate brown. Koalas from the northern populations are typically smaller and lighter in colour than their counterparts further south. These populations possibly are separate subspecies, but this is disputed.

You are taking the map as the territory. . . There is nothing wrong about conceptualizing about the map, just be aware it's the map, not the territory. Personally, I would rather have direct experience with the territory. For example, I would rather spend a week exploring the actual territory of Australia than sit around the whole week discussing a map of Australia. After an hour discussing the map, I'd be like "Enough of the map. Let's go see some Koala Bears and Kangaroos!!". Maps are useful to an extent, yet just as a guide. The real juice in life is in the territory.

Nor will you be able to in the future. Turquoise is post-logic. A mind needs to let go of logic to enter this realm. You won't figure it out or be able to explain it logically. This is part of ego surrender - to surrender control of the mental narrative. For example, explain to me in logical terms this sentence: "The gablish tecklot in the crisdort during plaktok" A logical mind will dismiss this as being illogical nonsense that has nothing to do with it's desire or purpose. Notice how your mind has already dismissed Turquoise pointers and tried to downgrade them as Yellow. Turquoise is unpalatable to the ego. Yet, minds with direct experience in Turquoise would understand the nonsensical sentence above . . . but not how you think they would.

@UDT Direct experience, beingness and theory are inter-related. Yet, many minds become off-balance toward theory at the expense of direct experience and being.

@flowboy I've gone through this mind-body dynamic and know how intense it is. The mind-body will try to behave in a way it thinks will keep the relationship going (e.g. "I better not text her again because I may look desperate"). Ime, this is not the healthiest way to go. The underlying mind-body dynamic that needs to get addressed is the sense of being incomplete and insecure. When the mind-body is with the gal, there is temporary relief from insecurity/anxiety and a temporary sense of being complete. Yet, the incomplete/insecure dynamic will return and continue on, until the underlying issue is addressed. This is just my opinion based on my experience. . . To me, this looks like a counter-intuitive situation. As hard as it is to do, I would sit and get grounded with the sense of insecurity and attachment. I would try to get enough detachment that I could discuss the dynamic with her without any attachment. This is a very high level of emotional maturity. . . Sometime when you are with her, the conversation might go something like this "I was doing some introspective work and noticed a mixture of attraction and fear arising. I thought 'how interesting'. So, I observed this energy to get to the root of it's source. After some contemplation it seems like. . . " Being genuine and grounded with fearless vulnerability is a sign of a mature confident man. Yet, it can't be said in a clutchy "don't leave me" desperate way. Also, it can't be said with too much intensity. Don't make it some huge deal and bring in stuff about childhood, past failed relationships, therapy that didn't work etc. You've got to say it from a detached, curious, genuine, grounded position. As if you were talking about a friend you care about. People pick up on neediness and clutchiness and it is unattractive. As well, the timing is important. I would only do this if you want a meaningful relationship based on mutual support with who you really are. If you want a sexual fling, I would not go this route and I would work on role playing development (you would essentially be playing an actor with her that is not the true you). If you go the meaningful relationship route, it's not easy. It took me years to get grounded enough to have these types of conversations. You've got to be ok with either reaction from her. She may say "You are a beta male. I'm looking for more of an alpha male. Sorry. See ya". Yet, that is good to know if you want a meaningful relationship, you can move on. Or she may say something on the same wavelength like "hmmm, I've experienced that too in life. I've never really thought about it like that. I've been doing some self-love practices lately that have helped". It won't be this exact phrase, yet something that creates a connection, support and continues a mutual exploration. If so, you are GOLDEN. You can now discuss this dynamic with her without fear and anxiety and it's something the two of you could work through. If this dynamic has been a pattern in the mind-body, it will continue to arise. Trying to repress it or hide it in the relationship doesn't work. It will get expressed one way or another. I've been in every combination of this dynamic. I dated a gal I was really really into and had this conversation and she dropped me because I wasn't "manly" enough in a traditional sense (good riddance to her). Another woman I was into became super attracted by this level of emotional awareness and with the strength of fearless vulnerability. We began to get to know each other below the surface - it's so much deeper.

@UDT Be aware of the mind’s tendency to go from one extreme to another. A mind that is grasping at theory may realize limits of theory and flip to the opposite view that theory is bad and may try to push it away.

Exactly, there is a lot of nonverbal essence in Turquoise that appears nonsensical from the perspective of other levels. Imagine someone in a group tells a nonsensical joke in a group of people. Everyone starts laughing except one person. That person says “I don’t get it. Can you explain to me why the joke is funny?” The joke teller responds “It’s not something that can be explained. If I tried to explain it, it wouldn’t be funny anymore”.

@Aakash Language and concepts break down at Turquoise. It’s more about being and direct experience than conceptualizing and intellectualizing.

@Aakash I think you are entering areas that cannot be explained in rational, logical terms and I would be aware of humans that try to do so. I've had many Turquoise-level experiences, yet I am not Turquoise-centered. My baseline conscious level is below Turquoise and I don't feel qualified to give you an answer from a Turquoise-grounded perspective. As well, there are very very few Turquoise-centered humans and it is an area with a lot of exploration. I can say that much of Turquoise involves hyper-intuition, hyper-connectiveness and beingness. At first, it can seem very "paranormal". So your question kinda gets recontextualized at the Turquoise level.

@NoSelfSelf I find it best to be honest about my true desires and to pursue my true desires in a healthy way. I had many Orange-level personal goals I pursued for many years (and still do). As well, it is not all or nothing. 80% of your time could be oriented to pursuing Orange-level areas and 20% pursuing Green-level areas. Also, you could aim to get "toofers". For example, pursuing something that gives you personal achievement and recognition (orange), yet also increases the wellness of the community (green). For example, one could design a technological gadget that would make them a lot of money - yet the gadget might not help the welfare of the community - such as a gadget that allows people to sneak alcohol into sporting events. Or one could design a gadget that gives them personal gain, yet also contributes to the wellness of a community. For example, one could say the developer of Fitbit gained a lot of individual success and income, yet offered a product that encouraged people to exercise more - thus increasing the wellness of society. Orange is about being true to yourself and not living someone else's life. I would just encourage that it be done in a way that doesn't harm others in the community.