Forestluv

Sure, that's fine. I don't have formal training in jhanas, yet have done a bit of work in concentration practice.

I agree with the concept of diminishing returns, yet I would say the numbers are off. I like this analogy: imagine throwing a kilo of rice throughout a room with a carpet. Then you have to find all the rice and clean it up. You can find and clean up half the rice quickly. Yes, the next half of the rice will take 10X as long, yet most of that time is the last 10%-1% of the rice. I would say it would actually be much longer to reach 100% - especially form 99%-100%. It gets harder and harder to find rice grains the less grains there are. For example, it may look something like this: First 50% of rice grains = 1hr. 50-70% of rice grains = 1hr. 70-80% of rice grains = 1hr 80-90% of rice grains = 2hr 90-98% of rice grains = 3hr. 98-100% of rice grains = 3hr. It gets harder and harder to find rice grains, the fewer there are. So going from 50%-100% took 10X as long, yet most of that time is spent trying to find the last 10% of the rice. Going from 50% to 80% only took 2X as long as going 0%-50%. And I totally agree regarding the last 10%. For example, when I was a student I strived for perfection. Yet trying to increase my grade average for a course from 95% to 100% took an enormous amount of time. A couple professors pulled me aside and told me I was studying too much in the course and it was not a good use of my time. I agreed to only study enough to reach 95% and use the rest of the time to develop skills and knowledge in other areas.

@brugluiz I would say it depends on the country and institution. In the U.S., large academic universities tend to be less personable and more focused on teaching content within their field. Small liberal arts colleges tend to be more personable and allow more fluidity. Socially, I think both universities and colleges in the U.S. are trending into Green. For example, acceptance of LGBTQ, use of nongender pronouns, diversity workshops etc. My experience in science departments in large U.S. universities is that they are hyper-focused and contracted within their scientific paradigm and do little to integrate between disciplines. There is very little interaction between departments and most professors are much more concerned about securing grant money and publishing than teaching. In contrast, small colleges pride themselves in being inter-disciplinary. Yet most courses and professors stay within their field. I would say there is opportunity to evolve upward. As a professor in a small college their is a lot of flexibility in course content. I'm in a science department and have taught a seminar on the evolution of consciousness. In my neuroscience course, I integrate the molecular/cellular level of science with lessons from psychology, metaphysics, meditation, social consciousness etc. For example, schizophrenia is a condition with many aspects - integrating various views gives a more holistic picture. As well, there has been interesting work examining the neuroscience of meditation through brain scans. This would be at a Yellow level, yet it is still fairly rare since a teacher would need to go outside of their comfort zone and learn about new things in other fields. This takes a very open mind and humility - yet I think this type of integration will increase in the future. . . . As a student, I would look for an institution that offers courses that appear yellow and an institution that has at least a couple professors that seem like they are at yellow. Yellow can thrive in academic settings, yet there is resistance to Turquoise.

An hour after reading this, I "got it" and started cracking up. Nice one.

I'm not very good at using a stick. I'm both a guide and being guided. Whenever I try to use a stick, it seems to cause a dynamic of division. I just made those up. Nothing comes to mind right now. I'll reflect some today, perhaps another will arise.

@WelcometoReality@Consilience ? ♥️

@Highest Super! One comment about the sense that a person “knows” another and connections. There is the type of knowing, connection and loving bonds that form over time. A couple learns about their life stories and there is shared experience over time. In the timeline, a couple can grow together and create things together. There is also a timeless knowing and connection in the Now dimension. It is nit time dependent. It is either there or not. One cannot create it or destroy it. It just is. It’s a type of magic. There is a form of love in the Now and a form of love that develop ms in the timeline. Ime, both are important. Yet I often see imnature beings (including myself in the past), confuse the two. Most often, it is immaturely thinking that the timeline love is occurring now without proper development. Yet be aware that there is a form of love prescence that has nithing to do with time and development. I’ve met a few gals in with that love presence. Immediate. Yet of course there was an absence of the developmental form of love. If the gal starts feels that prescence love and starts talking about how we are a great match, long-term prospects, she feels like she has known me for years etc, I know she is confusing the timeless prescence love as developmental love. Its a red flag for me. I’m much more comfortable with a gal that says we have great chemistry in the Now and lets see what happens in the timeline. And I agree with @SFRL about first date vibes, conversation and flirting. Yet if I’m interested in long term potential, I won’t sleep with her until at least the third date.

@Lazy Self No all caps. Against forum guidelines. This time, I’ll give the warning to the pumpkin puree. Just don’t do it again.

@Sharp I just tried to stop life happening and I can’t make it stop. . .

Yea, I like ruprt spiras analogy of the movie screen on this one. I would say your integration stage is one step further than what I described as pure detachment. Because what I’m calling pure detachment still has subtle separation. There is a some thing to be aware of. I think the “observer + object” stage can be a big step for novices, yet it can be a big trap as well. I spent 20 years in this space and have observed meditation teachers and monks in this space.

@FoxFoxFox Well said ?

?? ?

I understand what you are saying. I’ve been to the null void of Mu and back again. I’ve seen that movie. I’m talking about something different. Notice how what you are saying did NOT come from the pov of the tree. And that you are not able communicate with trees. It seems like you may have had some nondual experience that got recontextualized at the human level. Ime, that is the key to transcending the human level - to become aware of contextualization at the human level. If you got recontextualuzed at the level of a mouse or rock we would be communicating very differently right now. I can tell you that the tree is pointing to something different than you. This is not something the human can do. That is humanism. One must actually go and sit by the tree and communicate. It is a form of conversation. This is a higher level of communication that requires development of specialized modes of communication. For those of you interested in developing such skills. . . if you have reached the trans-personal level and want to evolve higher, the eye gazing practice is good for entry - yet you would need to find another being that has reached a trans-personal level. Sit in a meditative posture facing each other and gaze into each other’s eyes for 30 minutes. This is post-intellectual, there should be very few thoughts and the few thoughts that pass by should be far way. As if they are quiet creeks in the floor you don’t even notice. . . This is all nonverbal, nonintellectual. It is also beyond feeling, yet it’s much closer to feelings than thoughts, so it’s ok if there are backfound feelings. Yet front and center are empathetic and intuitive modes. You have a conversation like you’ve never had before. And it is a conversation that transcends time and space. The next step would be do do the eye gazing with another species. I like to do it with dragon flies. The advantage with humans is that if you find a high conscious person good at it, they can pull you out n and up if you surrender to it. The advantage I find with dragonflies is that they don’t have a human personality construct that gets in the way. Although the eye gazing will be much shorter time frame.

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. This is contracted within the human dynamic. Surrender all of this. Surrender your humanness and become teachable. Sit by an old tree and allow her wisdom to teach you. Transcending the personal self is insufficient for this. One must also transcend the human level. That is why I consider it to be an internediate level. There are many modes of communication. The modes can be integrated. Intuitive, empathetic, verbal modes etc can be integrated. I communicated this essence with a high level Native American woman by combining energetic fields with empathy and two verbal words said in a certain way. She knew exactly what I was conveying and I also knew she knew by receiving. This stuff about pointers and not being able to communicate is early development at the higher levels. There are powerful wands of communication at higher levels.

This is very far away. There is a whole realm you are missing. There appears to be an underlying belief here that trees cannot communicate with you. This is a form of humanism that will block a human from entering this realm.

That is from a human approach. Set all that aside and connect with the tree. Become humble and surrender your humanness. Allow the tree to become your teacher. Communicate with the tree. She may reveal to you an essence of post-human enlightenment. Ime, this takes a deep level of openness, humility and surrender. Then grace may arise. Or maybe not. One cannot approach this as a human. That is why I consider it to be at an intermediate level.

Any distinction is a form of dualism. Regarding the I am God thing. . . People get confused and twisted because they conflate the personal relative “I” with the absolute level of God. And most people have a ton of preconceived ideas of God which is a hindrance. I think the phrase “I am everything” can be more helpful. Said another way, they are conflating duality and nonduality due to lack of experience with nonduality.

One at a novice level: what is the color of sound? Quality koans are post-intellectual. They exhaust the intellectual mind to the point of surrender at which point a post-intellectual insight arises. It’s not thought. It’s also not feeling. Yet closer to a feeling than thoughts. The ones at begginner levels can somewhat be conveyed through thought. Yet I’d say intermediate and higher is full-on post-intellectual. I love watching the old crusty zen monks slap the faces of students that give intellectual answers.

Nope. That answer went through a human filter.

Getting warm. . .

Beginner level. . . Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

@8Ball I just wanted to say its cool to hear that you are pursuing your natural interest and passion. I'm in the sciences, yet we probably have a lot of overlap intellectually. My mind naturally loves abstract thinking and conceptualization. Even after 15 years of higher education, I only earn an average salary, yet I get three months off a year and get paid to conceptualize for hours every day.

Guys, consider that language breaks down in Turquoise. Turquoise is post verbal, post-intellectual and post-rational. Turquoise is trans-human. It cannot be verbally explained, yet we can sorta point to aspects of it. We have barely scratched the surface of Turquoise and very few people in the world are centered here. Also be mindful that one cannot comprehend two levels higher than where they are centered. So that means very very few people will have any inkling at all regarding the essence of coral. Perhaps psychedelics can temporarily boost someone centered in Turquoise up briefly into coral. Imagine Leo doing a Coral video and just standing there staring at the camera for two hours. You would be like "wtf is going on?". Of course, because you are not in tune with the coral quasi photonmetric immaterial particles emanating from inter-dimensional platforms through multi-frequencies.

It's kind of like that in spirituality. The equivalent of a black belt would be the "turquoise" realm. Just like a black belt BJJ, once a mind-body goes turquoise, the rabbit hole is sooo deep. Maybe someday turquoise belt masters will develop paranormal abilities and compete.

That's a good point. @Tony 845 You can temporarily reach black belt spiritual master levels with 5-meo. It's like transforming into a black belt BJJ for 10 minutes. With your background and desire it seems like it might be a good fit for you. In some Zen traditions they have a progression of stages/levels. The high level monks get a sense of a students development. It can be done for relative conscious levels. There are some high conscious people that can get a feel for people's levels. Egos of course may enter, yet that is part of the spiritual development and teachers would have a feel for that. I'm thinking of UFC fighters and how some are skilled in wrestling, others in BJJ, others in Boxing etc. In our spiritual dojo there could be spiritual masters specialized in energetic fields, reiki, breathing, astral projection, bending reality, self healing, yoga etc. What a cool place that would be to practice and interact with other "wizards". Dr. Strange kind of stuff.