Forestluv

@tsuki I volunteered many years with abused women. One thing I learned is to take an abused woman at her word. She said her boyfriend is toxic and he is abusive. Everyone in her life is saying he is abusive and she should block him. The suggestion that it isn't "real" abuse or both-side-ism is a common dynamic that can keep an abused woman in an abusive relationship. I know the "both sides" position can seem open-minded and neutral, yet there comes a time to believe someone when they say they are being abused and to be supportive to them. In this case, I would say questioning whether she is actually being abused and suggesting she need to show evidence and justify that the abuse is real is inappropriate.

I think that type of introspective work is great after one has removed themself from an abusive relationship. The OP said she has been trying to break it off with a toxic partner and is unable to do so. She tried to break up with him and found herself at his house last night waiting for him to come home. . . I think the most important thing to do right now by far is to set a strong breakup boundary and do not have contact under any circumstance. Block his phone number. Then reach out to friends and family for support,. Then go get help at psychological services at the college. The no contact is sooo important to get distance. The first week or two is incredibly difficult - after a week or two of no contact and there is some distance - then one may be able to start doing real introspective personal development and growing in a new direction. Toxic, abusive relationships are a major trap that can be extremely difficult to free oneself. The first stage is breaking free of that trap and getting distance from the trap. Then one can examine how the ended up in the trap and how they can grow so they don't get trapped again.

Yes, I understand that visceral reaction and have experienced it myself. The question becomes whether you want to expand your capacity to love. I've found that focusing on a horrendous events of murderers and rapists is a distraction from expanding one's capacity to love. It allows the ego to remain contracted within it's limited capacity for love. If you want to expand your capacity to love, it is much better to focus on borderline cases that are in the grey area for the personality. Each personality has a different judgement barometer.

That would be nice, yet egos enter and interfere. For example, we could design an approach that integrates mediation and psychedelics. How would that approach go over within the Zen community? How would that approach go over with the psychonaut community? I have over 20 years of experience with meditation and sanghas without the use of a single drug. I also have experience with about 100 psychedelic trips. I have a lot of experience with both and I can tell you from direct experience both are useful tools. As well, I have integrated Yoga practice. What I found is that when I mention psychedelics as a tool within a sangha or yoga group, there is enormous resistance. Extremely strong resistance about how psychedelics are delusional, a distraction, dangerous, addicted etc. On the flip side, if I am with a group of psychonauts and talk about the value of years of meditation and yoga practice, there is huge resistance. They say all that stuff takes too long and isn't necessary for awakening. They tell me the true enlightenment experiences come through psychedelic trips and all that mediation is a waste of time. I spent months with people in Peru totally immersed in Ayahuasca ceremonies. They had all these random insights, yet they were delusional in their own little world talking nonsensically about things like illusory time - all day long. . . . It was immature and ungrounded. They were wandering around doing 2-3 Ayahuasca ceremonies a week - some of them for years. I tried to tell them the value of integrating Ayahuasca experiences with meditation, journaling and yoga now and over the years. They looked at me like I was one of those "clueless meditators" and went back off into la-la land for hours rambling on and on about other dimensions. Similarly, I've spent time with life-long meditators and monks explaining the value of psychedelics as a tool when integrated with mediation. The response is the similar - that I am a misguided, drug-induced delusional being with good intentions. Each side is unwilling to let go of their own way and expand. Yet each sides has immense value and their synergy takes consciousness work to the next level. Those that use a hammer insist the hammer is best and are closed to other tools. Those that use a saw insist the saw is best and are closed to other tools. A being that is open to using all tools and develops those skills is on a different level. This being becomes a skilled carpenter.

@shubhankar At the personal level, this appears to be a pleasure vs. pain issue. You are still associating more pleasure with procrastination activities than productive activities. Once the scale is tipped so procrastination becomes more painful/less pleasurable than taking action, the personality will move toward taking action. None of the tools will work at the personal level until this balance is shifted. We could give you great tools, yet if your subconscious mind-body still associates less pain/more pleasure with procrastination it will continue to procrastinate. What helped me during a similar dynamic was to write out a list of all the pain/pleasure I currently associated with procrastination. I then made a list of all the pain/pleasure I currently associated with taking action. The key is to be honest. The conscious mind wants to think "I associate more pain with procrastination". That is a delusion. The procrastination list MUST be more powerful. Starting off, there must be less pain and more pleasure on the procrastination side, because the mind-body is procrastinating. If it is minor distractions and minor bad habits, I don't think what I describe below needs to be intense. Yet if it is deeply ingrained procrastination and major bad habits, then I think the below needs to be intense. Ime, anyway,. Once I made the lists and fully admitted and surrendered to the fact that I currently place more pleasure and less pain on the procrastination side - I tipped the scales. Now, I added pain to the procrastination side - I brainstormed and piled on tons of pain. All the things I was missing out on life. All the ways it was making me unhealthy. All the dreams I will never achieve. The key is to make it emotionally painful. Without engaging the emotional mode it will NOT work. The intellect is not enough. For example, I visualized my life in 20 years. I stood in the mirror and imagined myself 20 years older looking back at my current self. I imagined my life after 20 years of procrastination. My future self looked miserable. My future self looked so disappointed in me. "How could you have done this to me?". I did a variety of things like this to engage the emotional system. I made it so real I was filled with anger. I made it so real I was crying at times. This was an incredible source of motivation. On the flip side, I made a list of goals and things I was procrastinating about. Here, I piled on the pleasure. I brainstormed pleasure from taking action. The pleasure of having a good job, the pleasure of traveling, the pleasure of being in good shape and being able to go hiking etc. Here, I also did visualizations and meditations. Again, the key is to engage both the intellectual and emotional system. I became so charged up. And not just a rah-rah kind of way. I had to emotionally experience the pleasure and joy. This was sufficient to re-steer the ship into a different direction. There was enough juice to motivate my mind-body for about a month. Yet I needed to recharge my system with the above exercises. As well, I needed to come up with a detailed plan and measurable milestones. For example, one of my goals was to run a full marathon. I divided that up into do-able measurable components. Week 1, I run a little bit twice a week. I gradually increased the distance and frequency. I entered a 10K race and completed it. I celebrated this victory. Then came a half marathon. Then celebration. Then the full marathon and celebration. Along the way I added in stuff. I made new friends and joined a running community. The key for the next stage is to form the daily habit. The next stage is to become that person. At first, I was a out-of-shape bozo that could only run around the block once. I felt like an impostor. I was embarrassed to tell people I was training for a marathon. I was a faker. Yet a funny thing happened along the way. I became a marathon runner. I've run over 50 marathons. I became the marathon guy. People around me asked if I could help them train for their first marathon. I trained over 10 people for their first marathon and helped them with both the physical and mental aspects of marathon training. At first, crossing the finishing line was exhilarating. Yet then, watching a friend I helped train cross their first finish line was the exhilaration. Seeing their face at the finish was amazing. Seeing their joy and the joy with their family was amazing. This became new juice for me. As well, coupled it with other things I wanted to do. I would run for three hours and listen to recordings of my college class lectures. Or I would listen to talks by spiritual people like Adyashanti. I got a two-for-one. I also coupled marathons with my love and goals of travel. I traveled around the U.S. and foreign countries running marathons. Amazing experiences. And it all started when I made that list of pain/pleasure and tipped the scales. A lot more needed to be done after that, but that list was the catalyst. And here I am 20 years later, looking at my younger self in the mirror. And my younger self is not looking at me with disappointment and for that I am grateful to my younger self for taking the action he did.

@tsuki Based on my experience with Zen and buddhist sanghas. . . . Most nonmeditators have not left room 214 of the hotel. Most long-term meditators have stuck their head out of room 214 and realize there is a hallway and other rooms. Most monks have left room 214 explored other rooms on the second floor. Yet they haven't realized there is an elevator and other floors. There is nothing wrong with room 214 or other rooms on the second floor. The are amazing things to explore. Yet there are also other floors and rooms.

@SQAAD Where do you draw the line between who deserves love and who does not? Can you give examples of people that are borderline for deserving love? What specific objective criteria should we use to judge whether someone deserves to be loved or not? My neighboor leaves trash on his lawn and is rude to me, Yet he seems to be a decent father to his kids. I think he is on the borderline wether he deserves love or not.

I would take the advice that everyone is giving you: block him.

Takin’ it to the next level. ?

That gopher was totally enlightened.

@thesmileyone You’ve done thousands of hours of mediation and are yearning to go deeper. What’s holding you back from trying a psychedelic once or twice? And I would not use DMT the first time. The strong visuals can be distracting and make it harder to integrate imo. As well, I would be weary of psychonauts in their own little world. I think those that are well balanced and also do meditation, yoga, journaling, retreats etc. are more mature.

It’s good to know I’m not the only one to have experienced that ☺️

@thesmileyone So cool to see you digging deeper and exploring. Great stuff ??

Love this. The flute is both bamboo and the space between bamboo ♥️

That is why I used the term “can” rather than “will”. I think a person needs to be open and willing with a certain level of maturity for it to be effective. Similarly, one needs a certain level of maturity to use power tools.

They can also save a teacher years of teaching. A six hour trip can teach a person far more in five hours than I could in five years.

ALL CAPS is against forum guidelines.

@mandyjw Well said. I've had similar observations and experience with drugs. If a person is immature or unstable, I think the risk of drugs being counter-productive is really high. I've seen some exceptions, yet in general drugs seem to be counter-productive and can cause destabalization, dependency, escapism, chasing experiences, delusions of awakening etc. I also agree that they can be useful for mental conditions like PTSD. Yet I would add that the studies showing positive results included participants that had already gone through years of therapy. And the experience was in a safe environment with a trusted health-care provider and a loved one present. After the experience, there was further counseling to help integrate the lessons. This is a very different setting than someone ordering some psychedelics online and going it alone. I also agree that when a person reaches a certain baseline level of consciousness the dynamic changes. It then becomes a powerful consciousness tool that can save a person years of practice and work. Even then, I think it takes skill to use them wisely. I think one of the keys is being able to integrate the drug-induced lessons into a sober mindset and sober living. I think that takes maturity and skill. It seems that people with a solid foundation of years of spiritual study and practice like mediation, yoga, journaling, spiritual retreats etc. have a much better chance of using the tool wisely.

In a non-dual sense, God is all aspects and God is no aspects. Love vs Hate is a duality. In a nondual sense, Love = Hate Because at the dualistic human level, humans like to feel love, not hate. How many humans would attend a spiritual retreat with the theme "Love is Hate"? Not many. Humans are attracted to the squeezy stuff like serenity, bliss, love etc.

That sounds like a high Yellow level realm. I'm also in the sciences and tend to think abstractly, big picture, integration, inter-connectedness etc. I can also see how there are so many fragments in need of synthesis. For example, neuroscience, psychology, therapeutic modalities, yoga, meditation, reiki, medication, mind-altering drugs etc. Also, how intellectual theory, personal experience and social dynamics are all inter-related. There is so much to learn from each area, yet it is like people are in different camps and can't see how all the camps are inter-related. I think there is a need for Yellow level open minds that can see this and start connecting dots. Understanding the science part can take many years of study and training. It also requires resources like access to education and money. I think people with solid science backgrounds that expand beyond science can make a great contribution. There just aren't many people like Deepak Chopra that have both scientific and spiritual integration. Even the Science and Nonduality conferences have few participants with extensive scientific background and understanding. Nearly all seem very heavy on nonduality with surface-level scientific understanding.

Psychedelics are just one tool. Deep immersion into cultures / retreats is also a very powerful tool. Regarding expectations: I've found there comes a time during immersion to let go and let the retreat do it's thing. It's like the retreat takes a retreat and I'm just along for the ride. For me, expectations can introduce an egoic dynamic which can be a subconscious distraction and block. I find it help to reorient myself form expectation to intention. What is the deep genuine intention of this endeavor? From this mindset, a sense of openness, curiosity and humility can arise.

To me, what you write brings up the contrast between life in the storyline and what is Now. I also like the storyline. I like thinking about time. Memories and hopes/dreams for the future. It has deep meaning for me and there is a type of magic to it. We don't have to reject or destroy the storyline and living within the timeline. There is a beauty about that. Yet if we are 100% immersed in the timeline, we are missing out on something else that is very special as well. Now. There is also a magic is now that is extraordinary. There is curiosity, connection, flow and all sorts of realms to explore. Imagine times in your life when you were 100% in the moment experiencing the moment. Perhaps playing a sport or a musical instrument. There was no "you". In that moment, you weren't doing it to impress anyone or gain anything. It was an expression of love and joy in the moment. When I first started having awakenings of Now, I thought I had to get rid of the story. I thought I had to be 100% in Now to be a spiritual person. This just caused lots of inner strife in me. Eventually, I realized I couldn't do it. What helped me was to step out of either/or thinking. I realized I was spending less than 1% of my day fully immersed in Now. So I made a goal of spending 20% of my day completely immersed in Now and 80% of my day within the timeline. This greatly increased my quality of life.

Hmmm, that part about god using the body as a vehicle sounds a bit off to me. It suggests separation - some entity, separate from the body, that uses the body.

Nice. Sounds like a great adventure and opportunity to go deep. If you like online journaling, you could start one in the journal section. This has the makings for a great story.

No thoughts or feelings. Emptiness. Yet not in a “bad” kind of way. An empty expansiveness. She may have sensed the “me” wasn’t there anymore. I get the part about a look of nothing. I’m uncertain about the hidden part I love random encounters like that guy in the park