Forestluv

I'm a bit confused on terminology. . . Does the absence of bad leave the reciprocal presence of good? Is the term "good" here being used in the colloquial sense of "not bad"? Or is it being used in a more expansive trans-egoic context? For example, how god and God are used differently as well as self and Self. My sense here is that without a self, nothing is self-based bad and nothing is self-based good. Then, an Absolute Good reveals itself. Yet, I'm not sure if this is a correct understanding.

Thread locked as requested by OP within the thread

@kieranperez I think he makes an interesting point about ego deconstruction and construction. And how he relates both to reaching "witness + object" states of awareness. I hadn't thought about how ego construction can be used to reach entry levels of "witness + object". From that space, I can see how a "witness + object" state of consciousness could arise in which it is very difficult to see one's own egoic framework. The subjective experience would be "witness + object", which would seem like an awakened state. I think Rupert Spira describes a similar dynamic which he refers to as "enlightened duality". It describes it as a halfway point. Wilbur also seems to be describing it as an intermediate level. Thanks for sharing the video.

I don't have words to make you feel better. I just want to say that I know what this feels like. I've been in shitty places in which nothing anyone said could make me feel better and it often made me feel worse. The only thing that seemed to provide relief was through various forms of distractions. Yet the distractions are only temporary. The shitty feelings return. It's a really hard dynamic to live with.

@kieranperez Beautiful ♥️ ?

Dang, I just shot ink into my eyes!! Where am I?

@Nahm @now is forever @Serotoninluv Perhaps we are all tentacles on One dancing octopus. . .

I am the Octopus and I see you tentacle!

The self loves to hide in the shadow and point to itself in the light. Look over there, there is the self. Yet it can't resist seeking and finding itself. Then it hides again in another shadow. Each time, getting sneakier, more subtle and clever. This morning I was looking for my keys. I made sure to double-check my pockets, so I wouldn't have one of those "Duh!" moments. Not there. After a few minutes of searching, I realized my teeth were holding on to them the whole time. . .

I hope he opens the door for a lot of scientists. Unfortunately, he has been marginalized and ostracized by most of the mainstream scientific community.

@Pouya I would say yes. Someone like Deepak Chopra shows a trained scientist can transcend the ego. As a scientist, I would say there is certain conditioning within the scientific career path - technically and socially. There is a scientific paradigm which presents it’s own challenges to expand out of. It’s not just the individual conscious level. There is also a strong collective ego in the scientific community. Being immersed in that can be challenging to break out of. There is collective pressure to stay contracted.

Yes indeed. I think relationships and marriage is a good example. At one time, much of society recoiled from inter-racial marriage: "Marriage in between a man and a woman of the same race!!!". Support for inter-racial marriage was very progressive at one time. Then it became mainstream. More recently came same-sex marriage. The conservative mantra was "Marriage is between one man and one woman!!". Support for same-sex marriage was a very progressive position just 30 years ago. Yet, now it is becoming mainstream and in another generation will no longer be a "progressive issue" it will be mainstream. Yet, will today's progressives be tomorrow's conservatives? The young millennial generation is considered more progressive on today's issues - for example most are cool with same-sex marriage. There mantra is "Love is Love!!". Yet when I ask them about human-android marriage, they are taken aback and most recoil. Most of today's progressives say "Marriage is between two humans!!!". Will today's progressives be the conservatives in the future? Will they have marches and political yard signs to protect the "sanctity of marriage" as being between two humans. How will they feel about human-android marriages? Will their mantra still be "Love is Love"?

Once most of the ego dissolves, can there be a major re-adjustment period for the mind-body to interact and function in the world? Without egoic dominance of the mind, there is this expansive space. There are experiences like being shown the deconstruction of all distinctions to nothing and then shown the reconstruction of all things to everything. That kind of knowing messes with a mind-body that had been conditioned into a material world and egoic life. Being able to zoom in and out of distinctions - from low to high distinction resolution - is amazing and changes the mind-body’s relationship with reality. Yet it can make interacting and relating with others challenging. There may only be a handful of people on earth that can relate to that direct experience and ability. And that’s just one facet.

My guess is he wants distance.

For me. Absolutely. No question about it. Awareness, deconstruction and expression are healing agents ime. I would also add that sharing some of the process with another person can help healing. Those human connections can be powerful medicine.

Yes. So true. You made me smile. Connection is so beautiful. Thank you.

The imagery of a dandelion has often arisen in my mind for letting go and dispersion. This is the first time I've seen someone use it in a post. It warms my heart. We are connected through the dandelion.

Beautiful imagery

I started dedicated meditation when I was 22y.o. I started having nondual "glimpses", after a few months. Yet I didn't "catch" them. They were fleeting glimpses and they would even pass by, get dismissed or contextualized as simply an experience. For example, I there may be a moment with a lover in which our selves "melted" and we were one. There was simply the presence of love. No "me" or "her" to take ownershp of it. It was a brief moment, then my mind would come back and start thinking. . "that was really cool", "that felt good", "I think I love her, what if she leaves me?". All sorts of thoughts and stories arose. I practiced meditation for 24 years without a single drug. No psychedelics, no cannabis, not even a drop of alcohol. Nothing put meditation, retreats, dharma talks etc. I had many nondual glimpses, which I can recognize now - yet at the time they were pleasant experiences or "insights", yet I was too immersed in the storyline and personality and I didn't really know what they were, or that they were keys to a "transcendental" realm. Part of the problem was all the contextualization. In my own mind, yet also by teachers. Quite often, teachers would take these experiences and contextualize them. They would tell me what they mean and how it should be. I've learned that observing one's own direct experience is sooo important,. After about 22yrs of meditation, I started sensing I was missing something profound and important. I started getting an internal voice of "you aren't listening". I did the best I could to surrender more and listen more - yet that sense did not go away. I saw some people talking about psychedelics on a forum on reddit. With a few of them, I felt they were on to something. And it very much resonated with that inner part of me saying "you aren't listening". Yet for my entire adult life I had been strongly against all drugs and alcohol in spirituality. I used to call it spiritual cartoon books. I even spoke at high schools about the dangers of drugs and alcohol - so I pushed that inner voice down - for another 2 years. Finally, I decided I would try it once for strictly spiritual purposes. I spent a couple months researching for the best one. At this time in my life, I had no big "issues". I had a steady job and was financially secure. I didn't have depression or major life problems. I wasn't looking to escape. I wasn't looking to end suffering. I wasn't looking to become enlightened. I didn't even know about this forum. It really came down to that inner voice yearning for a "something". I was really curious what this was. What was this inner voice saying "you aren't listening". I'm not listening to what? I knew it was deeper than "me" and I would have to surrender all to allow it to appear. So there was a lot of anxiety before my that first trip. I took a moderate dose and still felt like me and redosed to go deeper. Then it happened. . . It's hard to describe the reality of the experience - which many others have on the forum with "trip reports". In terms of my everyday life - it had a profound impact. The biggest single event in my life up to that point, by far. Second place isn't even close. A few of the biggest life changing things for me where: 1) Full-on ego death - the complete dissolution of the self. I had spent many many years discussing the psychological self and the nature of the ego - in particular with buddhist groups. I got into places in which my mind thought it had some understanding, yet there was always a deeper sense that I wasn't quite "getting it". This is a major source of the seeking behavior. My mind-body experienced a lot of seeking - maybe "it's at a retreat", "maybe if I meditate more", "maybe if I do yoga" it will come. . . The entire story got dissolved to nothing - four hours later the story began to arise again. That I am a man. I live in a house. I grew up in New Jersey. I have a family. My parents are republicans, yet I am more liberal. There was awareness of this story being created - as if I was watching a movie. It was unbelievably profound. 2) A sense of "knowing". After the story began to get re-created and the "me" returned. There was a knowing of beingness without the ego. There was a sudden realization of . . . "So, that's what the Buddhists were talking about all those years!!!". So many times, there seemed to be knowing - yet it was always relevant. The sand would shift and I didn't know anymore and I would seek more knowing. This was different. An absolute profound knowing that "that's it". There was zero need for verification or validation. I didn't need to get online to ask if it was some kind of "it". I didn't need to read up on it in a book. I didn't need to visit my Buddhist group or teacher to ask them about it. in a sense, this was a higher teacher and it was unmistake-able. Something fundamentally changed that day and people around me could tell a difference. 3) A different energetic shift of seeking. For my entire adult life, I was a seeker. A seeking of truth through science and spirituality. The seeking energy was oriented "out there". Seeking truth through teachers, books - maybe it's in an ashram. Always looking out there to find it. Now, a very profound energetic shift took place - I lost interest in that form of seeking and a new energy of seeking truth through direct experience arose. I realized how I had been contracted in science and buddhism. Now I saw that they were within a greater truth. So, when a scientist or buddhist would say this is the truth - it now had a very different meaning to me. The seeking energy now shifted toward my own direct experience and getting in touch with that higher teacher "within" and exploring direct experience.

Oh no, it's not you. Each story has an infinite number of side routes. One cannot possibly connect them all. What you say is a beautiful example of being present. Image someone listening to another person. Yet the listener is immersed in thought and feelings that are influenced by past knowledge, experience, memories, their world view etc. They aren't fully present in what is happening now. They are not seeing the beauty of what is taking place right now - because it is going through a filter. That's what arose for me when I read your message.

Yes, that is also an important feature of this story. Thank you for bringing it up. There are various modes of communication - words are just one mode. Most human minds focus on words on the conscious level - let most actual meaning is transmitted subconsciously. Part of consciousness work is digging into these nonverbal subconscious zones.

Yes, that relates to a key point I was trying to make in the story.

I'm just playing, it's all good. Imagine a person came to you asking for directions to the Henry Ford Museum. You begin telling him and notice confusion arise. You then realize he doesn't speak English. With these realizations, it seems to me that a more efficient mode of communication would be to use nonverbal communication - for example, pointing on his map to the next street he needs to get on, and then relating the map to the territory by pointing toward the actual street. If I tried to link the map to the territory with English words, it wouldn't be very efficient - it's likely that more confusion would arise. I just used the terms "teacher" and "student" as a habit - since it is so common in communication. "Being 1" and "Being 2" would be more accurate.

I spent a week in Antigua. I love your center square. It was sooo beautiful. The trees, the water fountains, the people, the colorful clothing. A little piece of heaven.