Forestluv

Yes. That is an understanding of distinctions and consciousness in the context of learning. I would also add the other “direction”. We can also unlearn by deconstructing distinctions. That is also the nature of consciousness. . . Unlearning is powerful at times.

Mu

Of course, it was a combination of talent and training. What if he worked equally as hard to become a world-class soccer player? How would that have turned out? What we are saying is people have natural talents and natural non-talents. Hard work is part of reaching the pinnacle of one’s natural talents. LeBron James could have been an average nba basketball player just on amazing natural talent. To actualize that talent to its highest potential he had to work hard. Yet he was not going to become a world-class jockey regardless of how hard he worked. I don’t understand this part of the thread. . . It seems really straightforward that humans are naturally aligned to have certain abilities and not others.

Was it weak minded for Stephen Hawking to become one of the greatest physicists in history? He could have dedicated his whole life to becoming a soccer player and would have been awful at it. Noone would have ever even heard of him. How is pursuing his talents and not his disability weak-minded?

@kieranperez Recently, researchers have shown psychedelics stimulate neurite-genesis in cell culture. That would change the behavior of the nerves. Also, another group has looked at the decoupling of the DMN during a trip and it’s re-coupling after the trip is altered. Whether these alterations are “good” or “bad” likely has something to do with the person, contextualization of the trip and environment, integration etc. If someone is tripping in a jungle, gets lost and spends a week in terror trying to find their way home. . . that’s a lot different than someone tripping at home in a meditative environment and spending the next week integrating through meditation, contemplation and yoga.

Epigenetics alters the expression levels of human genes. For example, epigenetic modifications may increase the expression level of a human cortisol gene. Epigenetics won’t change the underlying DNA gene sequence. Only the expression level of genes.

@NoSelfSelf Why pursue things that the mind-body is not suited for? I could probably be able to bench press 250!lbs, yet it would take years of dedicated work, I would likely undergo multiple injuries, need to take anabolic steroids and sacrifice most of my life. I know guys that can walk into a gym with zero training and bench press 250 lbs ten times without breaking a sweat. I’m not one of those guys, I’m much better suited for other things in life.

Not so fast grasshopper. . . Once the mind goes trans-egoic, lots of space opens up for new stuff to flourish. Yes, it’s still all a dream, yet the dream takes a new turn and becomes very interesting. When a mind is no longer spending 99% of it’s time obsessing over trivial crap - there is A LOT more space. Imagine going a full day without a single thought. Do you really think that will be a “normal” day?

@DrewNows It was painful at the time, yet now it seems just like a bad movie I watched years ago. Yet there probably is some deep down residue I haven't fully cleaned out yet. What you wrote about "mattering" rings true. I often went through a cycle of uncertainty whether I mattered to her and whether she loved me. It was a weird dynamic. As you say, I did matter to her - yet in a distorted way that was very different from how I am oriented. I can see the dynamic much better now, yet at the time I was swimming in uncertainty.

This has not been my experience with narcissists. Ime narcissists are the opposite of empathy. They do not know what others are feeling. They can be extremely jaded and cynical. For example, there was a time with a narcissistic gf in which I suddenly had a realization that our relationship was about to end. It was an empathic clairvoyent sense that this time right now was the last time I see her or there might be one more time. I tried to reach out to her and asked for us to both work on this together. She was on her cell phone and kinda rolled her eyes. . . We also had a lot of magic together and intimate times and I "saw" it slipping away like sand in an hourglass. It's hard to explain - this wasn't just I feeling or thought. It was a sixth sense. All of the magic and beauty was slipping away and I reached out to connect with her. She wasn't there and the sand continued to slip through the hourglass. I was powerless. My body started to tremble and cry. This was overpowering my mind-body and it was 100% authentic. She looked up at me and went into "demon mode". She started mocking me . . . "Oh there you are with your crocodile tears. You poor baby. What a faker you are. Here you are pretending to cry like a baby and tonight you will be online trying to get laid". She said it in such a sinister way. She knew how to drive that knife deep into me. To an empath in this vulnerable position, I can't explain how manipulative and harmful this is. At times, it was so painful that I asked her to physically hit me rather than put me through this agony. I would have much preferred physical surface harm than deep soul harm. That knife goes deep. I don't think a narcissist knows what the other is feeling. I don't think she actually knew what I was feeling. I think she was so cynical and self-centered she did not know what I was feeling and actually believed I was faking it to manipulate her. That is how it works in a narcissist's world. They use emotions to manipulate others. So when they see the emotions of others, they often assume the other person is faking it to manipulate them (just as they do).

I've been looking into developing on the empathic line. My sense is that each human is on an empathic spectrum, yet that spectrum is not linear. In terms of SD, "tier1" empathic development can manifest as absorbing the energy of others - feeling what others feel. This can lead to confusion about what are my feelings and what are their feelings. In an unhealthy dynamic, the empathetic person can take responsibility for the feelings of others and detach or try to people please. A healthy manifestation would be a sense of emotional connection, feeling "vibes" and a type of soul connection. Yet, I'm starting to get the sense there is a trans-personal realm within this empathic line of development. I'm looking into how to explore this development. This is beyond setting up personal boundaries so energy vampires don't suck you dry. It comes after that is in place - up into Tier2. The vast majority of articles online I've read address "tier1" levels of establishing boundaries to protect yourself. I'm now more interested in what comes next. To develop these abilities as far as I can. The below articles gave me a sense of a transitional level. They both address the importance of boundaries as a foundation and give us glimpses into the next levels. . . https://www.psychedelicadventure.net/2016/04/being-empath.html https://www.openhandweb.org/what-spiritual-empaths-and-catalysts-might-learn-from-each-other

Regarding empath : narcissist dynamics. . . both can be manipulative and controlling - yet in very different ways. The energetics within the empath and narcissist are very different and there can be an attraction that leads to very unhealthy relationship dynamics. For example, really bad gaslighting. I read a lot about the empath : narcissist dynamics and how an empath can establish boundaries and a shield to protect themselves. What I'm finding is that when the inter-personal manipulative dynamics are removed, the empath show goes on. It seems that new healthy empathic phenomena can arise that is pretty cool. I think this is one of the keys - setting up personal boundaries. Yet ime there seems to be more going on. Once those boundaries were established, the empath show goes on. The empath is now liberated to develop their "abilities" and develop along the empathic line of development. A year ago, I thought this was "airy fairy" stuff from woo-woo Green people. Yet I'm starting to see that there is something to this - some type of higher mature level in this area. Similar to the intuitive line of development.

@DrewNows I’m still new to exploring this and I actually don’t know that much at this point.

I didn’t realize that was your focus. I don’t mean to pull it out of context into another area. My apologies. I certainly see a lot of value in the context you describe above ?

I’m not sure what you mean by identification trait. Regarding the war veteran, I don’t know. I don’t have experience in war or with war veterans. When free of emotional distortion, it seems more like another sense. Like you can’t smell and then suddenly you can. That would be really hard to explain. I’m not sure about the coping mechanism idea. I can see it related to emotional empaths, yet I can’t see how various forms, line geomantic empath, relates to a coping mechanism.

Yes. I know. It’s great stuff. I love it. Yet go into actual domestic violence situations and see how far it gets you. There is more to it.

@DrewNows Curse and gift ate probably not the best terms for me to use - yet I think most empaths would catch my drift. It can certainly feel like a curse or gift, yet that’s probably not the best way to describe it. I can see it as a coping mechanism in some contexts - yet it goes way beyond that. I would call it a developmental line such as the cognitive, emotional and intuitive lines. There is an ability component to it. . . . Calling empathic a coping mechanism is like calling hearing a coping mechanism. When liberated from emotional turmoil - emath can become abilities - a sense - similar to hearing or smelling. It’s not just emotions. I’ve sensed things so obvious that I’m looking around amazed noone else can “hear” it. I’ve learned they really can’t sense it and I just need to act normal - as if I’m not sensing it either. I’m currently observing wether people can subconsciously sense it and are affected subconsciously.

@DrewNows I think that is great for understanding psychological dynamics of violence/nonviolence and it could help a practitioner. I think there is also more to it. When one actually gets into domestically violent homes and is working with actual abusers, victims, psychosis, alcohol/drug abuse, DTs, blood and bruises - one needs a lot more than theory. It’s tough and tumble.,Frankly, theory often goes out the window, I’ve been in situations in which it looks like someone is gonna get hurt bad and I fear for my safety. Diffusing these situations takes a huge amount of social and intuitive skills.

Ime, domestically violent homes generally involve alcohol and drugs issue. It is fuel to the fire. There are cases in which alcohol/drugs are not an issue - yet I’d say it’s the norm. I think state-sponsored social programs can be great. Yet any domestic violence program that does not put alcohol/drug as high priorities areas will be ineffective imo.

From what I’ve seen, domestic violence is commonly associated with alcohol and drug abuse and psychiatric issues. More than being simply being overwhelmed with life. Starting a program of meditation, yoga and stress reduction would be a hard sell. As well, I think it would be insufficient.,Therapy and life skills teaching is needed as well. I tried to start initiatives in this area to no avail. I tried to start a free meditation and life skills meeting for those in abusive environments in my town. It got zero interest. The only way people would attend is if it was mandated by the courts to stay out of jail, to get their kids back, or if they were payed to attend. I didn’t want to go that route. I wanted it to be voluntary - it didn’t fly.

@playdoh Higher consciousness can allow for subtle and sneaky lying. The mind might not even be aware of it.

No it’s not simple. Mind-body conditioning is complex and involves many genetic and environmental components. Prior abuse is a major risk factor, yet it’s not necessary. It just makes showing a different perspective easier. But yea, it’s more nuanced.

The horse shitting metaphor pretty much cuts to the chase.

?. Sure. And smoke a little Green while we’re at it. ? @kieranperez Yes!!! I love it!!!

Yes, it is now my gut reaction. The big changes for me occurred when I did volunteer work with alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals and psychiatric patients. People that were suffering immensely. They had been abused and now harming others. I had never seen this side of abuse and trauma before. It was gut-wrenching. I’m quite empathic and I internalized a lot of it. After this, I saw it very differently. As a cycle of abuse. A cycle of suffering. One movie that had a big impact on me was “Little Children”. Yet it was really intense for me. It’s a story of a cycle of abuse in which most of the characters are both abused and abusing.