Forestluv

@Shaun Adyashanti and Lisa Cairns speak a lot about this “limbo” space - I found it helpful when I was in a similar space. @Paul92 @Neorez Absence of meaning does not mean no meaning. You are creating a new “no meaning” nihilism narrative.

I would let go of trying to gain positive karma. I would focus on developing a genuine and kind mind-body. Things seem to flow well from that orientation.

There is a form of beauty in there ♥️ ?

@Shaun Sometimes I find it helpful to get curious and explore what is actual right now, rather than focusing on an imagined destination that is not now. Clearing out a cluttered closet can allow openness and space to explore, grow and expand.

Ime, there is very deep trans-personal love and connection that is indescribably beautiful. . . It’s not like the mannequin story at all. That sounds like a bad movie plot to me.

@leintdav000 What you describe reminds of certain skills for traveling and learning a second language. A lot of what you describe about adapting, getting in sync and mirroring another’s mannerisms and tonality is a really helpful skill in traveling through foreign cultures and learning their language.

@CreamCat I haven’t seen this fellow before. He offers a lot of healthy insights in the second video that I find helpful, Thanks for sharing the video ♥️ ?

Heartstrings ☺️♥️

Would it also capture this sentiment to say: One is always a somewhere when pointing to nowhere. One cannot point to nowhere from nowhere.

Super interesting to me. In social dynamics I’m at the other end of the spectrum. I never felt like I fit in with any social group and spent a lot of effort trying to fit in. If you were in a “high conscious” group, would you also easily adapt and merge? Maybe something like a spiritual retreat.

I’ve spent sooo much time engaged with insecurities about my intelligence. Throughout my career, I felt like I was “an imposter” and any day now people would realize I was faking it and wasn’t smart enough. A few big lessons I learned: 1. Stop accepting other people’s idea of intelligence. 2. Stop comparing myself to others based on their idea of intelligence. 3. There are many forms of intelligence: cognitive, emotional, creative, empathic, intuitive and social. Each are very powerful in certain contexts. 4. Become aware of my natural abilities and deficiencies. Play to my favorite natural abilities and work on my deficiencies just enough to get by. For example, throughout my scientific career, I was surrounded by “brilliant” scientists that had an immense amount of scientific details and knowledge stored in their brain. They were my standard for intelligent. Well it just so happens that I suck at memorization, have a crappy memory and don’t really give a shit about details. I am a natural abstract thinker that sees how things are integrated in the big picture. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize this until I was 45 y.o. and spent most of my life trying to prove myself on someone else’s standard of intelligence that doesn’t resonate with me. As well, I have a very strong empathic sense and a good amount of emotional and social intelligence. Those same “intelligent” scientists were absolute morons in these areas. Most research scientists suck at lab dynamics. They are clueless about the needs and inter-personal dynamics of people working in their own lab. I look back on on my days as a student researcher appalled at the emotional, personal, social crap that went on in the labs. The head P.I.s had very low intelligence and skills in so many areas. The best ones were aware of their deficiencies and hired a lab manager - which likely saved the lab from unraveling. Others were intellectually arrogant and oblivious to their own idiocy in other areas.

@Fountainbleu I have a somewhat similar family dynamic, yet not nearly as intense or dramatic as your situation. To me, it sounds like you are deeply immersed in family dynamics, stories and personalities. For one's own sanity, I think it can be helpful to get some distance from family craziness to allow a new openness and space for personal insights and growth to arise. . . I would resist the temptation to enter into a "I'm more enlightened/conscious than you and here are your problems" dynamic. It can be very subtle and easy to slip into. Yet it just doesn't do one's own mind-body any good, or family members any good. For my family, they are generally not open or interested in expanding their minds. They are in a relatively contracted mindset (stage blue/orange on the SD scale). When they are in a group, it is even more pronounced. Yet occasionally I'll be having a one-on-one discussion with a family member and they may loosen up and question one of their limiting beliefs and ask me about it. Something like "you mentioned that some of your students are gay and lesbian. How do you interact with those students?" The underlying dynamic is that they believe homosexuality is immoral and they are subconsciously questioning that belief. I can gently pull them into their "stretch zone" and talk about how the LGBTQ students are similar to other students. I can take it to the "Green" level by discussing human emotions we all share. However, I have to be careful to stay within the "stretch zone" and not push it into the "panic zone". For example, if I start talking about how we should all be using gender neutral pronouns and the politics of same-sex marriage - it would take them into a panic zone and they would get highly defensive or want to change the subject. . . This is an example of openness that is relatively rare and generally arises in one-on-one personal discussions - it very very rarely arises in a group setting in which their is a collective ego. Generally, I don't judge or try to steer them to some "high conscious / enlightened" existence that I think they should be at. Everyone has their own path. I just try to be a loving being and as aware as I can be. Sometimes they may ask me for advice, other times not. Yet, I don't try to push or pull them to some destination I think would be better for them. As well, I make a conscious effort to not "take the bait" and engage within that drama.

@Flatworld Crusades Oooh, I'm unfamiliar with the idea of social chameleon. I take it that would be someone who adapts to a social dynamic and their persona blends in with the crowd. That seems more aligned than my initial impression.

@leintdav000 To me, it sounds like you are highly sensitive to particular energetic dynamics and can absorb/immerse yourself into those dynamics. I would try and detach and develop awareness as a grounded "observer", so not to be tossed around by swirling energies. Almost like finding a grounded place to sit in the midst of a swirling storm such that you can observe the storm without being swept away by it. . .

@Flatworld Crusades Are there any commonalities with nights you get blissful sleep? Perhaps things you did during the day, how you prepared for sleep, time of sleep etc? I'm not an expert in this area at all. I'm just curios that maybe there is a dynamic going on prior to sleeping.

@bflare You broke up with her 3.5 yrs ago and this story is still playing out in your head. And not just a general, hazy story. A highly detailed story (27 points!!) with lots of emotion attached. She is still living in your head 3.5 yrs later. . . rent-free! I've been through similar psychological dynamics and to me, it looks like you are deeply immersed into it. I would discontinue all contact and not engage in this at all. It is feeding this beast. After getting a bit of distance, I would start to introspect. Yes, her behavior was controlling and manipulative - yet that is irrelevant. Focusing on that and dancing around in that story is just going to keep you immersed in that dynamic. That dance sucks. Get free of it and learn new beautiful dances. . . So, I would look internally. . . what is it about me that attracted this into my life? What is it about me that was attracted to the mess? You were, and still are, attracted to this mess. I've experienced bizarre attraction to negative energies myself. This situation sounds like a strong attachment to negative energy that is relatively mild. It could be much worse - into sociopathic and narcissistic zones that can get really twisted. . . I would observe the dynamic within you that is attracted to this behavior and energy. The mind may try to evade this question and think "Huh, I'm not attracted to this! I'm attracted to healthy beautiful women". Yet, be honest here - there is an attachement/attraction to this negative energy. If there wasn't, you wouldn't be immersed in this. So, I would ask what it is about me that is attracted to it, even though it is harmful to me. Why did I continue to engage in this? However. . . I would not go into a "poor me" or "I'm not good enough" mentality. Such a mentality is yet another avoidance defense that will keep one trapped in the underlying dynamic. I would look at it as objectively as possible. Don't blame anyone - her or you. Get curious and observe. As if you are a detective trying to solve a mystery. Ime, the are questions are key. I dated women you describe above over and over again. It was baffling. I knew it was unhealthy and just didn't know why I kept getting involved in these situations. Until I became aware of my own internal mind-body dynamics. Now, I can see it clear as day and I now longer find it attractive at all. . . Last Saturday, I went on a first date with a woman and could sense these types of control/manipulation games you describe above - yet in a much more subtle form. It was a first date afterall. Years ago I would have gotten sucked into it. Yet once free of it, it is so easy to spot and it is sooo unattractive. I politely told her thanks for visiting me, yet I am not drawn to our energy - I wished her the best and that was it - hours, weeks, months, years of twisted dynamics I no longer have to go through. . .

@tsuki I thought it might be fun to make “official” Orange, Green, Yellow and Turquoise certificates - just for giggles. ?. . . Yet some may take it too seriously ?

@Swagala Thanks for sharing such a genuine story about your journey and process. It captures a lot of human experience ♥️ ?

Bustin’ out some new koans now. ?❤️ ?

If @Shin barks in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Yes. It’s just hard to surrender when it’s happening.

At first I thought this was a serious post and was like “Uh oh, here comes a dust-up”. Then I saw @Shin and started giggling ? ♥️ ? ?

That made me lol. ? Another thread was about spiritual benefits of humor and laughing. So true?

I just want to reach out here. . . I can relate. I’ve experienced spaces in which I can’t make it stop. With moderate intensity, it is very unpleasant, In extreme cases it has lead to panic, terror and agony. I agree that it takes a lot of skill and experience to work out of that direct experience when it’s actually happening. Talking and contemplating it is a walk in the park compared to being it. How to live with it is something I’ve put a lot of effort into and something I’m still working on. . . Sometimes there is a background fear knowing that another episode will overpower me sometime in the future and I don’t know when it will come or how I will handle it. I’ve got to be careful about engaging with that background anxiety, because I can spiral down if I engage too much. Even writing about it now has me on edge and I’m putting in conscious effort to stay grounded.