Forestluv

Me as well. Ironically, our discussion of releasing blocks actually helped me to release one of my own blocks and connect a couple dots. ? ?

I don’t identify as a scientist, yet I’m professionally trained as a biologist with an emphasis in cell/development/genetics/neuroscience. I’d say I’m in the scientific/mystic hybrid genre like Deepak Chopra. I have basic knowledge of QM, yet I have not extensively studied it.

@Drake140 Thanks for that example. I think that type of logic can be very useful in identifying and releasing blocks. I know a psychologist that uses similar logic in her approach and it can be very effective. I’m really interested in identifying and releasing mental and bodily blocks so we can expand toward our potential and improve the health of the mind-body as it relates to the world. I appreciate your view. It’s a prompt of contemplation for me ?

Perhaps a photo, please? I’m curious what it looks like. I’m hoping to level up gazing at it ☺️

When you say a feeling blocks the ability to see the next logical gap, are you referring to an intellectual / reasonable framework that gets filled in? Or can it be something “outside” of reason that suddenly makes sense reasonably? For example, I have an interest in releasing feeling/energetic blocks. In particular, to recondition the mind. Yet it’s not like I have a logical theory and I am searching to fill the gaps to form an integrated/holistic theory. That would be super cool, yet not my primary motivation. My primary motivation is to just be able to do it. It could come through relaxed no thinking mind states, deep concentration and observation, psychedelics, neuroscience, logic, “post-logic”, spirit guides, crystals, flow stages, sensory deprivation tanks etc. I don’t care what tool is used, I just want to be able to do it. In your example, I’ve also had moments in which I erase or modify an emotion/memory. Sometimes it’s like “Oh my gosh! It’s so obvious! That totally makes sense!”. And it seems like a gap in reasoning is filled. Like two dots are now connected. Other times, the happening doesn’t make sense. This used to frustrate me and I would try to figure it out. Yet now I don’t feel the same desire to make sense of it. It’s like there is a different form of understanding. Perhaps with enough time and effort, I could make sense of it in a reasonable model, yet I’d much rather have the “understanding” in whatever form - and the ability to do it.

I am as well. It feels like a “higher” form of understanding to me. Or perhaps it’s better to say an “untapped” resource. Like having a sixth sense I never really knew existed.

I also think there is immense potential in expanding logical reasoning models. I think we have barely scratched the surface. Imagine what sophisticated AI will develop. As well, I think there are times in which “post-rational” may appear “post-rational” because it’s a new area of exploration. Something like intuition hasn’t been deeply explored mainstream. We just don’t have words and frameworks to discuss intuition. We say things like “Well intuition is sorta like this. . .Gosh it’s hard to explain in words because it’s post-rational”. . . Now imagine all of humanity explores and investigates intuition as the number one human desire and goal for the next 100 years. Hundreds of new words and rational models would arise.We would discover and observe many aspects and mechanisms of intuition. Gaps in reason and logic would slowly get filled and connected. Humans would become comfortable discussing intuition reasonably. It would eventually be considered rational - no longer post-rational. Is this along the lines of your model? Or am I off?

Do you think it’s possible to have a model that includes logic within the model? Or is it either/or? I.e. it can only be a model that is all logic or a model that is no logic. This isn’t a “gotcha” question. I spent 20 years of my adult life immersed in a purely logical scientific model. I now think it’s possible to have a model that includes logic, yet is not restricted to logic. And I think there is value in pursuing logic, without being limited to logic. Quite often, it seems logic is looked down upon in spiritual circles. Yet I see it as a valuable tool in certain contexts.

@dimitri I think this is a really good question. In my own experience, I’d say there are various forms of understanding. Similar to how there are different forms of experiencing intelligence and love. For example, there is understanding of math and genetics. There is also an understanding within inter-personal relationships. I think we’ve all been in situations where someone is trying to communicate an experience/feeling/issue and the other person just doesn’t “get it”, they just don’t understand. Others times there is an connected understanding and the person may say “yes!yes! That’s it. Finally someone understands me!”. There is also an intuitive form of understanding. A form of “just knowing”. For example, going on a first date and immediately intuitively knowing this ain’t gonna work. You don’t need to analyze the situation and figure out why. You just know.

@SFRL There are different forms/areas of dating and relationships. One can have wisdom and expertise within certain forms/areas. For example, the alpha male strategies guy is highly knowledgeable and skilled in a particular form/area of dating/relationships. That is not my world - my area/form of relationship is very different than AMS. I have experience and wisdom in a different form. It doesn’t reduce his skills and expertise and it doesn’t make me an awkward nerd that can’t get/maintain a relationship. There are dating/relationship situations I can be helpful and situations in which others are more qualified to be helpful. There are dynamics in which I can see your experience and insights can be more helpful than my own. As well, dynamics in which I have a lot of experience and am on the same wavelength as the other person. . . And I agree arum had broad experience/wisdom in dating/relationships and made great contributions to this subforum.

@Aakash It sounds like you are seeking an integrated understanding of mental illness. I would say open-mindedness, exploration, observation and communication are keys. For example, you have cited physical and non-physical aspects of mental illness. Perhaps guided meditations (non-physical) and real-time FMRI brain scans (physical) could allow insight. To take it a step further, let’s bring in a Reiki master and neuroscientist that work together. Perhaps the scans can provide the Reiki master an additional tool of having a high resolution map of energetics - to combine there innate sensing of energetics with a visual map. Perhaps this could help a person recondition and re-wire their mind. I’d like to explore a form of Reiki that uses energetics - not in a generalized energy flow type of way, yet in a specific focused high resolution way. As if the energy is focused and localized like a scalpel or needle. I heard someone mention this is a new emerging field and has a name. Does anyone know the name of this by chance?

Nice observation. . . . Sometimes I wonder what organized yellow-level organizations/companies will look like. I also get the sense that there is potential in this area. It’s exciting to think about, yet I also get a bit worried it would get corrupted by excessive capitalist forces. I think it would need some grounded Yellow leadership with Turquoise and Green mixed in to help relate and connect a broad range of human experiences, desires, needs, issues etc.

I’m sure there are many things that will lead to maturity. What comes to mind for me now is getting to know other people’s perspectives and life experience at a deeper level. Not just talking about opinions about politics, movies, video games etc. Rather, deeper conversations about how our experiences have shaped us - connecting and understanding others at deeper levels. Realizing how much we fundamentally share as humans and appreciating our differences. Traveling and immersing oneself into another culture takes this to another level.

@Beeman Well, you would be avoiding 99.99% of people in the world as insecurity is a fundamental component of humans. Insecurity can get buried deep into the human psyche and get expressed in various forms. It may appear as someone trying to be superior and intellectual. It may appear as someone being a victim. Seeking validation. Blaming others. People-pleasing. Gossip. Isolation. And on and on. There are many different degrees of insecurity and expressions that boil down to insecurity. I don’t think one can avoid insecurity in the world. It is all around us. For me, the better question is how can I interact with it in a manner that is healthy and doesn’t cause harm? The first step is to observe and understand my own insecurities. If I don’t get it touch with it in my own mind-body I will not be able to interact with others in a healthy manner. Once I worked through my own insecurities, I became aware how deep subconscious insecurities were driving my behavior. For example, as a child, I was conditioned by teachers and my parents to believe that I had the potential for intellectual gifts, yet I wouldn’t apply myself and reach my potential. Teachers and my parents became very disappointed in me. This led to subconscious insecurities that influenced my behavior for the next 30 years. . . Once I got to the root of my own personal insecurities, how I saw and related to other people’s insecurities completely changed. For example, I used to take responsibility for other people’s insecurities. I can now see that and I don’t have to do that anymore. As well, a form of empathy has arisen in me when I see it in others. For example, someone might say something derogatory to me and I can sense the underlying insecurity. I know what that feels like and I can feel empathy and love for that person, without judging or criticizing them. Yet this doesn’t mean I need to get into the swamp and engage with it. Sometimes, a person might open up and we could have a heart-to-heart discussion. Other times, a person may express an underlying insecurity as argumentative and combative. At times, it’s best to avoid these encounters. For example, I’m not going to date a narcissist with a subconscious insecurity complex. Other times, it’s best to engage in a limited context. For example, if a co-worker is sabotaging a group effort by trying to claim all the credit to relieve his underlying insecurity of not being good enough. In this case, I’m not going to take his personal inventory and discuss his psychology during staff meeting. Yet, I will try to diffuse situations so conflict doesn’t escalate out of control. Yet I’m not going to be getting upset with the guy after work and I certainly wouldn’t go on a camping trip with him.

@Farnaby Right on. I’ve found relaxing the mind and body is a key to go to deep levels. For me, a traditional meditation posture can work well, yet a static position can cause stress to the body and become distracting. I used to push through the discomfort/pain, yet there comes a point my body tells me this just isn’t healthy for the body - such as my knees and lower back. I’ve tried Hatha and Vinyassa as a meditative practice. They are great and healthy for the mind-body, yet too fast for meditative states. I’ve found Kriya yoga to be a beneficial form of meditation, yet again there are static positions. For me, yin yoga is a wonderful balance. Each position is held for 4-8 minutes, which is long enough to dissolve into a meditative mind-body state. I’ve completely relaxed into a position and a few minutes later there is further relaxation of mind and body. Muscles and mind further let go. It seemed like I was as relaxed as possible, yet there is another level of depth. Also, each position has it’s own sensations and energetics. It can be uncomfortable, and there is an element of letting go and surrender. It’s great to explore mind and body connections. Currently, it’s my favorite practice for reaching deeply relaxed deconstructed (yet aware) states in which reconditioning of the mind and body can take place. Plus, it’s actually healthy for the body, rather than wearing down my lower back and knees in static postures held for extended periods of time.

@pluto Beautifully written. Touches the depth of human experience and the ♥️

@Drake140 It’s fine to relate an experience/religious quote/religious insight to an OP’s topic. As well, sometimes a thread can take a detour (with the consent of the OP) that leads to fuitful discussion. Or a thread might have a bit of random humor sprinkled in. Yet, it’s not ok to derail an OP’s topic into a new topic of discussing/interpreting/debating/propagandizing a religious text/beliefs (or another off-topic). Occasionally, a person will do this across multiple threads. There is also a meta view to consider.

Have you watched Leo’s video on 65 keys for a good life? It’s one of my favorites for looking at the big picture of life.

Hijacking threads is against forum guidelines.

Please do not derail/hijack this thread toward a discussion/promoting the Bible/Christianity. Stay on the OP’s topic or start your own thread.

What is it that you desire?

@Leo Gura I hadn’t thought of it like that. It seems like Blue-stage Republicans have been able to define “real” Christian for decades. Perhaps this is loosening. I noticed the liberal “war on Christmas” hasn’t had the *pop* it had years ago. . . I hadn’t considered that Obama could be a genuine Green-level Christian. Now that I think about it, he does remind me of some liberal Christians I knew in hippy Oregon. They were really open-minded and inclusive. Lots of inter-faith/spirituality kinda stuff. It would be nice if that was mainstream.

Could Obama have dropped down to Orange/Green at times yo get closer to the average Orange level of the U.S.? If the average level of the U.S. was Green, I wonder how Obama would have expressed himself. For example, it was pretty obvious to me that he pretended to be a “real” Christian to counter-balance the hysteria that he was a cliset Muslim. I think it was clear he saw value in various faiths and spirituality - and was even inclusive to atheists. If the U.S. was Green-centered, he wouldn’t have had to create the image of being a “real” Christian and could have fully expressed what I sensed was Green/Yellow in this area.

@Joseph Maynor Perhaps Marianne Williamson as VP to sprinkle some Turquoise in there ?‍♂️

I didn’t write anything about truthiness of direct experience or psychedelics. You added that in there. Notice how what I wrote got processed through a filter of pre-conceived beliefs in your mind. That is a hallucination. You just created that reality for yourself. Ta-da! ? Do you have any idea of my impressions of how sober and psychedelic direct experience relate to truth within various objective, relative and absolute contexts? (That would be “no”).