Forestluv

Nice insight. My sense is many of us are at different “places” with this. Sometimes a mind wants to protect and reinforce that boundary - this can provide a sense of grounding and stability to the mind and body. Other times a mind is in what subjectively feels like a process of dissolving that boundary. Exploring, questioning, observing, contemplating. This can seem intriguing, fascinating and enlightening. And also ungrounded, unstable, uncomfortable and scary. I like how you say direct experience says differently. Without the thought stories, the duality between creator and creation dissolves and there is pure Beingness. Is this along the lines of what you are pointing at?

@Anderz Does not the concept of evolution and change require a construct of a timeline? Can Now evolve? Can Now change without imaginations of past and future?

@Gili Trawangan Welcome to the forum. Great introspections and questions. Notice how the mind likes to contextualize direct experience of Now into experience stories. The direct experience of Now is not the contextualization of “prior” experience into a story (the contextualization of “prior” experience into a story are more appearances Now). The mind loves to imagine. That’s just what human minds do. Such imaginations can be deeply mysterious and magnificent. They can also be scary and painful. At the personal level, the mind would love to figure out the mechanism of cause and effect. Imagine the power of such knowing. Perhaps a human can mold and create it’s own reality. Perhaps it’s “above” a human mind. Perhaps it’s all One within appearances arising. An inter-connected consciousness. It’s fun to explore, yet a mind can can get so immersed into such explorations and thought stories it can lose presence of Now.

@Arcangelo That’s like eating an amazing Ceviche and saying “I now know what South America is ALL about”. There is much much more to explore, Be and learn in Turquoise.

@Aldo Sit in nature for a while and simply observe. The flowing stream, the breeze, the trees, birds and chipmunks. All just being. Is it “humble”?. . . It just is. Beingness. Humility is just another thought story human minds add in. Let go of all the thought stories and just Be. Here and Now. Just observe without the distraction of all these thought stories. They seem super important to the human, yet they have no more relevance than anything else happening Now.

@Bill W We are all the Fellowship of the Spirit. ❤️ ?

@Charlotte A strong trip is golden, yet it also can be a huge energy drain on the mind and body. It’s like expanding two conscious levels and having years worth of direct experience in one day. Then, condensing that into the mind-body. That is a lot to ask of a mind-body. When we break new ground so dramatically, it will feel ungrounded. The mind and body is trying to communicate “whoa! Slow down and rest. Let’s spend some time integrating this and getting grounded”. The mind will want to contextualize and make sense of the experience, yet our previous level of conscious cannot accommodate this depth. It may come up with all sorts of thoughts and images, grasping for a sense of grounding. Since the balance is tilted way over to groundless, I would spend more emphasis on getting re-grounded - do the things that ground you. Yoga, cooking, walks in nature - some routine. Treat your mind and body with love and be grateful it absorbed so much of the divine. It will allow you to expand, yet gradually.

@Nivsch I would say old-school traditional socialism is blue-ish. Yet politics is not my area of interest.

@Nivsch Some people would want to use extreme examples of opposing views to justify their own view as being sensible and normal. Accepting that framework is playing into their assumptions. I would simply reject the statement that extreme left wing is green (since it is not). I would then reframe that left wing is green and right wing is blue. Rather than the term “superior”, I would explain why left green is more mature/developed than right blue. This frame is less adversarial and there is a better chance that a person would be open to learning. As well, I would highlight some blue values and acknowledge some green excess within the framework that green is more developed, overall, than blue. The intellectual understanding of stages up to Green is fairly simple. It’s not the conceptual difficulty that makes it hard to understand/embody, it is the attachment/identification to the beliefs that make it difficult. Usually this is due to unconscious conditioning and emotions, such as insecurity and fear. You can easily win an intellectual debate without winning any hearts or minds. . . For example, why would someone want to evolve from blue to green? What’s in it for them? How would it improve their life and make them happier? . . . That’s the type of thing that softens people up and gets their attention. I would also reduce the emphasis of left vs right, because people already have preconceived beliefs and see right vs left as “me vs them” based on identity politics. This will trigger defense mechanisms

@nowimhere A memory of “it” is simply an appearance Now. That memory can get further contextualized as an experience with meaning by the mind. This memory/experience/contextualiztion isn’t Nothingness. However, the memory/experience/contextualization may have benefit to the human mind and body. I try to maintain awareness of whether attachments and identifications form with the memory/experience/contextualization - because that can lead to a contracted mental state. I haven’t smoked 5-meo, yet I have vaped freebase and plugged HCL. Vaping is much shorter in duration with a milder afterglow. Yet, vaping offers the ability to modulate the intensity/experience in real time. For me, plugging duration is usually about 20 of full immersion and about 40min. of afterglow. Yet it’s a gradual process, there isn’t a “switch” from immersion to afterglow.

I’ve had similar feelings and they’ve also had a profound impact on me ?

I would say the direct experience in the moment is muuuch closer than trying to imagine, figure it out or explain. Yet I’ve found simple images can be helpful. In this no anything, was there a sense that there was a “you” trying to imagine “nothing”? For example, in that space was there an observer that might think something like “wow, that nothingness is really cool”. Or, was there simply Nothing with no thoughts or observer? And then the bubble suddenly appeared with sudden awareness observing the bubble. In terms of thoughts, something like “whoa, a bubble. Hey, I’m back. What just happened? Did I disappear into Nothing just then”? Maybe not those exact thoughts, the “sense” of it is more important. In other words, was the appearance of the bubble necessary to realize there was Nothingness prior to the bubble?

@1liamo78 I’ve been observing images and imagination play out in my mind. It’s fascinating to observe what my mind and body considers “imagination” and “reality”. In the imagery you describe, it seems like “nothing” is based on lack of things outside of the bubble with things. Outside the bubble there are no things to make distinctions between. There is no thing relative to any other thing. Inside the bubble, we have things that we compare to each other. This is a carrot which is not that hammer. . . Could we also see everything inside the bubble as One thing? One Everything. There is only one thing - everything. That is the same as no-thing, nothing, because there are no longer two things to be compared to each other.

Sounds like transcendence of the sit/stand fallacy. Breakthrough can be uncomfortable to the mind-body, yet the liberation is so worth it ☺️?

Welcome aboard! ♥️ ?

@SQAAD Nice work on the contemplations. Just a suggestion: when you are out in Nature journaling, try pausing and just be in Nature for a bit. Feel it. Absorb the energy of Nature. It nourishes the mind and body like vitamins.

@Serotoninluv One other thought that came up. If your mind insists engagement with the concept of solipsism, what would happen if you let go of identification and just explored it? Human minds are conditioned to think in opposites. It may think “I have to choose between solipsism or it’s opposite: not solipsism”. This puts a lot of stress on the mind and body. Such opposites are constructs of the mind. If your mind insists on conceptualizing it, you may find that aspects of solipsism have value and can be integrated with aspects of nonduality, reincarnation, the LOA etc. One could also observe the direct experience. When thoughts of solipsism arise, what is the experience? Are the thoughts related to feelings in the body? Which comes first; the thought or the feeling? Are the feelings bothersome? Curious? Could you convert an uncomfortable feeling of a solipsistic thought into a curious feeling?

The mind and body crave a sense of grounding. One way to do that is through creating and immersing itself into thought stories. There are other ways as well. One of the most difficult aspects for my mind and body is the sense of groundlessness. I let go into groundless and it can be uncomfortable to the mind and body. Then, there is a pausing to form some grounding at this deeper level. Some people call this “integration”. Then more groundless may arise at a deeper level, followed by integration into grounding. Yet there is only so much groundless the mind and body can accommodate, depending on it’s maturity and developmental level. Too much groundless too fast can be counter-productive and harm a mind-body. Yet too much grounding results in attachment and identification to that grounding. The mind and body can get “stuck” in a grounded state and choose the discomfort of attachment/identification to the grounding over the discomfort of groundless. Part of groundless is there are no guarantees. A guarantee is grounded. One needs to let go of that guarantee to expand. Once one expands, they are unlikely to return to the same grungy toilet stall. If they do, the trap isn’t nearly as powerful because you’ve expanded beyond that. You are no longer limited to the perspective of being in the stall. You can access a more expansive perspective beyond the stall, that includes the stall. As if you can now observe it from the outside. The person may re-enter that stall and become immersed into it. Yet having the more expansive perspective has immense power. The mind-body may be in the stall for weeks and suddenly realize “Whoa!! How did I end up in this stall again?”. Then you can observe the impact of mind-body conditioning and the sneakiness of the ego. The frequency, duration and intensity of the stall keeps diminishing if we do the work. That is one dynamic I’ve gone through. It’s also possible to have a “one and done”. There is an absolutely clear realization and release. And that’s it. To me, these are rarer and I would call them “Grace”. In terms of personal development, there are other toilet stalls along the path. Yet I’d say on average they get nicer - and with each surrender and ground-groundless cycle, there is a flow that arises and ground-groundless start to integrate. And it’s not just about toilet stall traps. There is much much more. At times it’s great to focus on toilet stalls, yet if one becomes contracted within that, they will miss the magnificence and magic. There are times we need to take a dump in a toilet stall, yet let’s not miss out on the music of the concert. ? In terms of absolute - it is nothing/everything. Yet even saying that is too much. And if we get a good look at absolute, we still live as a human. The show goes on.

@AudibleLocket It’s context dependent. Weed can be beneficial in certain contexts, harmful in certain contexts. It depends on the situation and person. For me, weed can be a helpful tool to relax the mind-body for certain insights and spiritual practices. For example, I’ve found weed + yin yoga is a great combination for me. Yet I’ve also found weed to be highly habit forming and my mind-body may desire it a bit too much, especially when the mind-body is feeling uncomfortable and wants to be in a better space. For example, I went to go on a nature hike last week. I was feeling a bit uncomfortable and disconnected to nature. I wanted to relax and feel at One with Nature. There was a desire to smoke some weed and get into that space. That’s fine on occasion, yet what happens is that the mind-body becomes conditioned. Sober becomes uncomfortable and stoned becomes comfortable. If that pattern keeps getting reinforced, dependency arises. That’s just me. Other mind-body’s have different relationships to substances. Observe your relationship with weed and reality. Get in touch with your body snd listen to what your body is trying to communicate to you. Your body may be saying you are in a good rhythm, flow with it. Or it may be saying you need to teak things a bit. Only use weed in certain situations, times, cut back etc. Your body is a wise sage.

So now the story becomes: I’ve randomly reincarnated to a person trapped within a toilet stall that doesn’t want to regress into sticking my head into a toilet. You can add lots of stories into that movie. Or you can walk out of the toilet stall. It might not be easy and it may be scary to leave the toilet stall. Yet it can happen if you want it to.

You aren’t regressing to an ant. You are unaware that you have set the bar of potential to ant. In the concert analogy, that is like locking one’s self in a toilet stall and believing the toilet stall is all of reality and thinking “Looks like it’s possible to regress to sticking my head into the toilet and drinking piss water. How depressing”. There is lack of awareness of all that exists beyond the toilet stall. There isn’t even awareness that a concert is taking place.

@Pouya Going from the conscious level of an ant to a human, then back to an ant can be s bit of a bummer. Yet you are contextualizing it from a view if limitation, rather than that of potential. Yes, expression of infinity through a human mind-body has limits, yet you are nowhere near those limits. It’s like being contracted within 0.1% of human potential and saying “I’m in a limited human mind-body. This sucks”. Yet you are limiting yourself to a tiny fraction. It’s like being at concert and locking yourself in a toilet stall and saying “Concerts suck, I have to live trapped in a toilet stall”. That is a tiny tiny fraction of the concert. Get out of the toilet stall and explore. There is enough to explore to keep a human busy for a lifetime.

@DrewNows I’ve been exploring reconditioning my mind/brain/body and think you raise a really good point. It is really tempting for the person to defer to what it views as authority as well as get immersed into thought stories. For example, a person may be trying to figure out their anxiety and get rid if it. Geneticists may say there is a genetic component, psychologists may point to environmental inputs, buddhists may point to attachment and identification, nondualists may point to a form of transcendence. They may all say “this is what your anxiety is and what you need to do”. It’s tempting for the person to get immersed into that. All of that information and perspectives can be helpful, yet what I’m finding is that there is much much more. . . The deepest insights for me arise while observing the dynamics of the mind and body play out in real time. One is like an absolutely clear crystal observing the appearances within the crystal. There is observation of the anxiety appear. The bodily sensations, the mental thoughts, the linking of past memories and future thoughts. The continuation if previous experience. The desire to move from one place to another. Observing how the mind and body is conditioned, yet without creating new thought stories that the mind identifies with. In this clear place of observing/being I’m finding it possible to “massage” out mind conditioning/block/framework- similiar to massaging out a tense muscle. Yet I’ve also found that in a state that transcends the personality and can clearly view mind-body dynamics - the concerns that are very important to the person (such as relieving my anxiety), might not be so important anymore. In terms of reconditioning the mind, I’m finding a “trans-personal” space that views the mind-body from “above”, yet not to the point of “trans-human”, where the awareness to healing one’s own mind-body dissolves and awareness is expanded toward healing all of humanity. That’s a great space too, yet one still “returns” to one’s own conditioned mind-body and realizes there is still reconditioning work to be done at that level.

@John West I’m not quite clear where you are at. Could you give us a real life example of this general place you are in? It could help to get a better sense of the bigger picture of what’s going on.

@Nivsch Centered in yellow, the mind will try to figure it out from below. Turquoise is not an intellectual thing like Orange and Yellow is. It’s more like a beingness. You Be Turquoise and then are like “Oohh, so thats what its like. How can I possibly explain this?”. . . If you want a quick peek at Turquoise, take a psychedelic - a relatively strong dose will dissolve the yellow thinking mind and allow space. Yet the mind will try to contextualize it when it returns. That’s the challenge (referred to as “integration”). Yet one good look is golden. However it comes. It can be a game-changer because there is now a reference for grounding. As well, there are many forms/expressions of Turquoise / similar to how there are many forms/expressions of Orange.