Forestluv

@cetus56 Nice schematic. Just one minor point: the Gone stages on the left edge doesn’t include the final stage: “So far Gone, there is no Gone to be Gone from”. ?

@Shaun You seem to be making a separation between “inner” and “outer” relative to a self construct. It’s all inter-related.

@SQAAD You might be interested in Leo’s series on delusion.

@Schahin I understand the desire to know what will happen on a trip, to avoid discomfort and find solutions to life problems. There are a lot of variables involved with psychedelics including setting, dosage, type of psychedelic, prior conditioning of the mind-body and current mindset. We can do research and prepare the best we can, yet there is also some self experimentation and uncertainty involved. It sounds like your body went into “fight or flight mode” because it felt like it was unsafe and tried to self preserve. If you increase the dosage, you could “breakthrough” this mechanism (if it appeared again) or it could intensify. This can be quite stressful to the mind-body, so I would be cautious. To me, it doesn’t sound like this was a good setting and I would change the setting such that the mind-body feels more relaxed and safer. Perhaps in nature, in a meditation room, with soothing music, with a trusted friend etc. I would also gain more experience on lower dosages and with standard psychedelics like lsd. Or perhaps synthetic 5-Meo and working your way up. Also, it seems like your intentions to heal and help family members is deeply genuine and there is a very strong desire to use psychedelics for this purpose. This can set up strong personal desires and expectations, which I’ve found is not always the best energy with psychedelics. The substances often lead to “trans-personal” nondual awareness in which the personal story and personal problems dissolve and become irrelevant. Many of the lessons psychedelics have shown me seem to be unrelated to personal issues. Yet with spiritual growth, can be indirectly helpful to working through personal issues. This is part of the integration process. I try to relax expectations and desires that I get something specific from the trip. Rather, I make a humble request and intention to orient myself. Then, I try to let go and be open to whatever lessons may arise during the trip. @peanutspathtotruth ? ❤️

How do you distinguish between Truth and Delusion while “sober”?

Multiple threads about the deleted Turquoise video have been merged. Please post questions and comments about this topic here, rather than starting a new thread.

Yep.

Consciousness expansion

Perhaps try to mix in some kriya yoga. It can give the mind a sense it is doing something. I’ve found placing attention on very simple things like touching thumb to each finger tip to be help ground the mind at times.

Nice. The first half of the post brings me to lucid states and the melting together of imagination, dream and reality. btw, you’ve expanded quite a bit the last few months. Nice work ??

On a breakthrough dose, the self will dissolve. This is often referred to as “ego death”. In the sub-ego death zone, there can be a lot of anxiety and resistance - especially for beginners. Yet after breakthrough, there isn’t really fear as one normally knows it - since the person has dissolved there is no longer a person to identify with fear. As well, how the trip is contextualized into an experience depends on the baseline conscious level of the person. A fundamental religious person tripping for the first time will contextualize the experience very differently than a high conscious mystic tripping for the 100th time. Many beginners find 5-Meo more intense than other psychedelics. If you did not have anxiety/panic issues with shrooms, you may want to try lsd or a lower dose of synthetic 5-meo in a familiar/safe environment. What is revealed in the trip depends on the person and many variables. Especially for beginners. One can make a request and intention that they be given insights for a life problem, yet it is no guarantee. This is the type of area that generally involves experience and skill with psychedelics. Generally, a beginner is not going to rewire their brain, remove fear conditioning and gain deep revelations to their life’s problems in a trip or two. Early on, issues may actually be amplified. As well, a beginner may get some glimpses into what high conscious states are like. I’ve had many trips that involved uncomfortable lessons. They are not all blissful nirvana. Yet ime with more experience and deconstruction of the ego, they tend to get deeper and more peaceful.

@Danioover9000 No need to play the victim here. As I wrote, this is analogous to someone coming in after a public presentation and then disrupting the Q and A between teacher and audience by asking “what was the talk about?”. It’s disrespectful to the teacher who spent dozens of hours working on the presentation and disrespectful to the audience that actually attended the presentation. It is inappropriate and most adults know this intuitively and don’t need it explained to them. Enough babysitting and spoon feeding. Take some initiative, responsibility and effort for your personal development.

@Malekakisioannis I don’t think you have the right frame here. Imagine a skilled teacher has spent dozens of hours preparing a formal presentation that he offers free to the public. After the presentation, there is a Q and A discussion between teacher and audience. Someone who comes in late (and misses the presentation), disrupts the discussion by asking “What was the presentation about?”. It would be totally appropriate for the teacher to respond “Next question please”. @Danioover9000 Not a big deal. Learn and move on ?

@Bill W Excellent point Bill W. We don’t need a dozen threads complaining about thread locks. I have merged two similar threads about thread locks. For those wanting to complain about thread locks, please read over the forum guidelines and use this thread, rather than starting new threads on this topic.

Personal development takes work and effort. If one isn’t willing to watch an hour video and post their impressions and questions, they shouldn’t be starting threads asking people that have actually watched the video to explain the video. It detracts from people that are genuinely putting in time and effort to learn and develop. This isn’t a classroom of entitlement and spoon feeding.

This reminds me of a student that comes to class without reading the book. Then interrupts class discussion to ask “What was the book about?” And then gets upset when the teacher tells him to do his homework and read the book. ? (You do realize that Leo just put a lot of time and effort into producing today’s video on authority, right?).

As is every seeker at the human level. Humans seek relief from fear and seek comfort. Ime, that’s not the main thrust of 5-meo and psychedelics. At a human level, they can offer awareness of human conditioning and personality dynamics. In doing so, they offer insight into what personality dynamics are present - allowing an opportunity to deconstruct and clear. At the physical human level, psychedelics are not some magic potion that will cure a human mind-body of a lifetime of conditioning. If someone with a broken arm takes 5-meo, they will still have a broken arm the next day. Similarly, a person with a particular neural network pattern who takes 5-meo will still have that neural network pattern the next day. However, psychedelics allow for reconditioning, rewiring and healing of the mind and body (when used responsibly and with skill). Yet this can take years of dedicated work with meditation, yoga, psychologists, psychedelics etc. These doubts and fears are programmed and conditioned into the human mind and body. If one is lucky, one or two psychedelic trips will offer such profound insights that such conditioning permanently disappears. Yet one is more likely to get increased awareness and have to work on deconstructing and letting go of ingrained patterns. With higher doses of psychedelics, one doesn’t get to decide what is fine and not fine. One must surrender ALL. One walks through the doorway without knowing what lies on the other side. It can be expanded love, deep revelations, comedy, whacky nonsense, insanity or horror. Generally over time, as one gains experience and deconstructs egoic dynamics, there is a shift away from anxiety/panic/fear toward love/revelations/wisdom. Based on what you have described, it seems like your psychedelic experiences with mushrooms and 5-Meo may be revealing anxiety, insecurity and fear dynamics that are conditioned into the brain and mind. I’ve had a similar dynamic, likely due to a lot of conditioning of feeling unsafe in environments and powerless to change or escape it. I’d say my first 20 of 30 trips involved anxiety and panic dynamics. After a few days, I seemed to bounce back and be ready to go again. Yet now my understanding is that these can be mini traumas that pile up. I would listen to the body and take it’s advice seriously. To listen to one’s intuition and body sense over thought stories (which are based on self and fear). For someone with anxiety and fear dynamics, I would strongly suggest tripping in environments that feel safe with trusted people (or solo). Environments in which a mind-body is spooked out before even ingesting the substance is not the best, ime. If you have the resources, I would also suggest seeking assistance, perhaps psychoanalysis or EMDR. As well, I would encourage one to create a supportive, loving network of friends. Ime, psychedelics are a powerful teacher - yet if one is not at an experienced mature spiritual level there is often difficulty interpreting, integrating and embodying psychedelic experiences alone.

Well sure, at times there are nuances. Yet when one reaches a certain level of development and fluency it becomes pretty obvious. For example, a fluent native English speaker can easily recognize someone learning English. A University Calculus professor can easily identify a student learning algebra. And a person centered in Yellow can easily identify someone learning blue or orange. For example, a solid Yellow stage thinker could easily see someone who is limited to binary thinking and lacks an understanding of relativism. It’s quite obvious.

@bejapuskas Regressive ideas are always present in society. There is always resistance to progressing and evolving upward. There will be people who want to maintain the status quo and there privilege. I’m not sure of the most effective way to deal with such regressive energy to allow progress. Throughout history, there have been both violent and nonviolent means to dissolve such regression.

@intrastellar My donkey metaphor seemed ineffective. I’m referring to open-mindedness of ideas, not judging people based in their ideas. Perhaps a better metaphor: The idea of replacing the London subway system with donkeys. If you were on the London Board of Transportation, you would have the maturity to immediately recognize that this is a juvenile idea which is bad for London transportation. This is not being closed-minded. In terms of SD, transitioning into Tier2 involves a trans-personal evolution. Attachment and identification to ideas dissolves and there isn’t a sense of *my* perspective and *your* perspective. There isn’t the energy to be right at a personal level. There are simply ideas and perspectives floating around. The perspective that we should consider rescinding women’s right to vote is simply an idea. We don’t need to place ownership of the idea to anyone. We don’t need to identify with the idea or the opposing idea. We can simply consider the idea. The idea is a very regressive one. This idea was relevant over one hundred years ago. Other regressive ideas would include stoning women and reestablishing slavery. There is no need to introduce personalities into our consideration. We can simply see that these are regressive ideas that do not warrant serious consideration in adopting as social policy. Just because it is an idea does automatically grant it legitimacy for consideration. These types of ideas are indicative of poorly developed minds. In terms of consciousness expansion, they are at a child’s level of development. If teachers were planning a school trip to China and the children wanted to fly there on unicorns, the teachers would be at a developmental stage and maturity to recognize that this is not the best idea. However, the children are not at this development stage and might get upset because they can’t travel via unicorn like in the movies. We would not judge the children for their idea because it is appropriate for their developmental stage. Similarly, Elliott’s idea is appropriate for his developmental stage. The idea rises from an early stage of consciousness development. It is the equivalent stage of a child. There is no need to judge Elliott personally, as this is a perfect expression of his developmental stage. However those at a more developed stage of consciousness can see his ideas are regressive and arise from an earlier developmental stage. In a relative context of social evolution, they just don’t carry the same weight as higher conscious ideas.

@intrastellar I would associate open-mindedness with expansion of consciousness, not contraction. For example in SD, an open mind allows expansion and evolution up the spiral -rather than a contracted regression down the spiral. It would be like telling someone learning advanced Calculus to be open-minded about beginning algebra. At the practical human level, we only have a certain amount of resources and some things are not worth our time and effort. For example, it would be unwise for someone living in a city to spend his time contemplating whether to buy a donkey to commute to work. I don’t consider it to be closed-minded to dismiss this idea as being absurd. It is better that such a person receive therapy rather than be taken seriously. In SD Tier 1, the primary seeking energy is to satisfy the self. Transitioning into Tier 2 involves self transcendence and an energetic shift. There is a new energetic orientation that is not self oriented. Open-mindedness takes on new meaning in Tier 2. As well, there is a deeper understanding of relativism which guides consideration of various perspectives. To learn more, I think Leo described higher level open-mindedness very well in his SD yellow video and his 65 principles for a good life video.

@intrastellar Elliott undercut women oppression by doubting their right to vote. The right to vote is one of the clearest and extreme examples of oppression. It’s a very short putt and Elliott missed it. The failure to clearly acknowledge this indicates Elliott is unable to make the distinction between oppressed and oppressor. These types of underlying suggestions are a manipulative effort for regressive men to maintain power and privilege. It will subconsciously resonate with some men below green on the SD scale. In particular, those with unhealthy red and blue conditioning.

A false equivalency. Women fighting repression for the right to vote is not equivalent to men repressing women and their right to vote.

@Natasha Whoops, I forgot about the gibnut in belize. It’s a rare rodent they serve to royalty. Soooo good ?

Use your imagination. You create reality. ?