Forestluv

There is further advancement than that.

What does “earning” mean? Imagine a business owner that makes millions of dollars. From one perspective, he worked hard to organize his employees and clients and steer the company toward profits. Yet he also profited off of others’ work. The business-owner profited off publically-funded education of his employees. The business owner is utilizing publicly-funded infrastructure, such as highways, to deliver his product. From this perspective, he is not earning it. He should not keep all the profits, since he didn’t earn a portion of it - it should go back to the public that earned it. Similarly, drug companies profit off of publically-funded research conducted in academic institutions. Have the drug companies “earned” these profits? Similarly, consider a CEO from a bank that works his ass off 80 hours a week. Yet most of his work is spent trying to convince middle-class homeowners to carry more credit cards and refinance their homes into bad mortgages. The CEO and stockholders will profit by taking advantage of the vulnerable. Is this “earning it”? From one perspective, yes. But it’s not as simple as he worked hard and earned it. I was traveling abroad in Europe and noticed that small groups of teenagers would play with a soccer ball near a tourist and distract the tourist, so another teenager could sneak behind them and pickpocket them. These teenagers were highly skilled at this. They obviously worked very hard to build skills and work together as a team. Would you say they are “earning” their income? From one perspective they are earning it. Yet we could also start to add qualifiers to what “earn” means. The point is that there is no object “earning”. It is a relative term and there are lots of nuances.

@Meditationdude Do you desire to awaken to Reality or to explore amazing things within Reality?

@ardacigin Your questions seem to be through the lens of a human person. That there is an orientation toward what the person desires through goals and attainment. At the personal / human level, psychedelics certainly have practical value and can be a tool to assist one toward human interests and desires - including intellectual, emotional, spiritual desires - such as a desire/seeking to deepen one’s meditation or to improve attention. I’ve been to all sorts of realms and dimensions with psychedelics. Many aspects of imagination, time, attention, personality dynamics, intuition, beingness, the paranormal etc. have been revealed. Yet at a deeper level, it is much more fundamental. Eventually, it all gets transcended: you, meditation, sds, culadasa, Leo, actualized, TMI, humanness, psychedelics, psychedelic states, sober states . . Within the framework of “Psychedelic investigation toward the Truth”, there is an investigator that is investigating something with intention to move toward some destination called “Truth”. There’s nothing wrong with that, that’s the kinda stuff humans do and we’ve got to do something. Humans aren’t birds flying around the sky and building nests in trees. . . Yet there is a deeper/transcendent wokeness that psychedelics can help reveal. It is transcendent of the investigator. You aren’t investigating. “It” is investigating. There is transcendence of “toward”. The journey becomes the destination. Now. The idea of “Truth” is transcended. There is no Truth to investigate because the investigator and the investigations is itself Truth. From a personal perspective, psychedelic-related realizations and transformations begin to “stick”.

@Mezanti Threads merged. Please don’t start multiple threads in the same topic.

@Vignesh Pagadala That’s not what I was referring to. Carry on.

@Truth Addict I’ll let you have the last word on this. Let it go. @Aakash Don’t hijack the thread into a side conversation.

This thread has been derailed too far onto a side topic. Let’s stop the side conversation.

When something is unclear to you, it doesn’t necessarily mean the other person is being dishonest. There can be another reason it is unclear to you. Be mindful of assuming intentionality. Let’s not derail winterknight’s thread with this side topic. If you would like to discuss this topic more, please PM me.

Yes

@NagmaThe topic of Truth and proof has been discussed in many threads on the forum. As well, Leo released a video on this topic today that you may find helpful.

If a woman texted you and you didn’t respond, what would be going on in your mind? You wouldn’t be very interested in her if you don’t feel like responding. If she kept texting you, how would you see it? This isn’t some mysterious puzzle about women we need to figure out. If someone doesn’t respond for days, they have low interest.

@ethanb121 Threads merged. Please don’t start multiple threads on the same topic.

@Jordan94 I think my input here is contributing to derailing the thread. So I am going to stop commenting on this topic here.

I don’t think psychedelic therapy will be psychedelics + traditional therapy/analysis. I think psychologists will need a lot of new training to adapt. At a population level, it’s not as simple as take a psychedelic and fix yourself. There is more to it and I think support and guidance through inter-personal relations can play an important role.

Of course not. For some people, therapists can be useful in helping to integrate psychedelic realizations. As psychedelic therapy becomes mainstream, more psychologists will be trained and specialized for psychedelic therapy and increase their usefulness.

@Jordan94 Consider directness and efficiency. Imagine going to a therapy session with a therapist who speaks French. You speak about your experience in English and someone translates to Chinese, the Chinese person translates to Russian, the Russian person translates to the French psychologist. The French psychologist analyzes this information and has a suggestion. Her suggestion is translated through Russian, Chinese and then English to you. You don’t quite understand this suggestion and would like more clarity. So you ask for clarity via the Chinese and Russian translators. . . Obviously, this therapy would be highly inefficient. It would take forever to make progress. It would be much more efficient to work directly with an English speaking therapist. What took years to accomplish with the translators could be accomplished in one or two sessions with the English psychologist. . . We can get even more direct. You directly. Speaking with an English therapist actually involves translations and filters. When used properly, psychedelics are more direct. It is You directly. That is why years of therapy progress can be made in hours or days with psychedelic therapy. Even clinical trials are showing this. I’m not saying interacting with others has no value. It does have value. Yet there is a more direct method that is more efficient and faster for many issues.

Don’t assume all aliens come from outer space. . .

@Jed Vassallo Sounds like you've created an epic battle between ego and death. Should be quite a movie ending. Do some psychedelics, go through ego death, integrate and transcend the personality. Then move on. There are other movies after this one.

I’ve seen that argument as well. The two key parts are “worked hard” and earned. The “worked hard” part is irrelevant. Many lower and middle income people work as hard, or harder, than the businessman and do not make millions/billions. In terms if hard work, it would be impossible to justify the income. The businesses man would need to work 10,000 times harder - there are not enough hours in the day. One could say the business man offers more “value”, yet that would be hard to justify the extreme disparity. Is he providing as much value as 10,000 of his employees? The term “earn” is a highly relative term. People may say “he earned it” - assuming that “earn” is an objective universal term. Yet if we take a closer look at the businessman’s practices and as what it means to “earn” - it may lead to interesting discoveries.

The problem here is with “any way”. You mean in a way that satisfies you. There are things you are unaware of regarding psychedelics. You will not be satisfied with what I say. That is your prerogative. You are your own authority.

Of course that’s what it would look like. Pre/Trans fallacy. Grounding oneself to a literal, rational, objectivist framework will limit themself to that framework. One will ask for proof at the level of this framework. That is like a scientist asking for proof of the immaterial through material scientific evidence. One must transcend that level. Psycho-therapy and analysis has a lot of practical value in the year 2019. Some of us are exploring many years ahead of our time. Traditional therapeutic modalities currently have a lot of value, yet they will get transcended in time.

You are missing a lot of depth and breadth of psychedelics. It hasn’t been revealed to you, yet that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You are unaware that you are unaware of facets of psychedelics. Imagine being every master violinist that has ever lived and is currently living. How could any individual violinist be a better teacher than this universal master violinist of all teachers? This universal master violinist would be by far the best teacher to teach itself how to play the violin. And this is a limited version that a human mind may be able to imagine. It gets even more radical . . . Just because you can’t imagine this, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It means it hasn’t been revealed to you through direct experience. As such, a mind may have a contracted state in which it is unaware of what it is unaware of. Yet a few of us are aware of what I am pointing to. And more will become aware as time goes on. This is much more radical than you realize.

You get to find out. You are your own authority. For me, it was exciting to wonder about high level super powers. When I got a good look at the real power and potential, it was overwhelming and was very scary. With transcendence of the personality, the desires and hopes of the person dissolved. What was important to the person was no longer important. So, one doesn’t know what will arise. Yet, there may be an alignment deeper than the person. For example, you seem to have an alignment toward transmitting something of value. In terms of transcendent paranormal manifestations, who knows? It no longer becomes about the little “you”. It becomes about You. Perhaps healing energy is transmitted to humans. Perhaps healing energy is transmitted to Rain Forests. Or perhaps You simply sit in pure presence that is perfect as it is.