Forestluv

I didn't intend to suggest "contracted and trapped" = "unfulfilling lives while do nothing for humanity". Yet I can see how the term "trapped" has a negative connotation. Simply saying "contraction" is better. Someone could be contracted while living a fulfilling life and doing great things. Yet I would also say there is a correlation between attachment/identification to duality and personal turmoil and distress.

Yes. . . And this assumes that something continues existing when someone is not looking at it. Two sides of the same coin. . . The reason the above meme is helpful is because the vast majority of minds are immersed into the duality side that something continues existing when someone is not looking at it. Why point to this side of the coin? Everyone can already see this side. The problem is they are contracted and trapped into this side. . . Thus it seems more helpful to point and say "Look! The other side of the coin!" This is super common in spiritual teachings. For example, we don't need to tell people "You were born". They already know this and are trapped within this side of the duality. The freedom comes by pointing to "You were never born". . .

I wouldn’t make that assumption. You are seeing this from the male perspective and unaware of female conditioning and development. I spent a summer living in Cusco Peru. Everyday, people we come up to me to ask me a question or tell me something. Once they had my engagement, they would try to sell me something or ask me for something. They were dressed like typical locals. Some were obvious and carried stuff like pamphlets. Others were subtle. They would start off with something simple like “Isn’t the weather nice today?” to get attention and engagement. At first, they seemed genuine and I would engage to be friendly, then I’d realize I got fooled. Yet after about two weeks, I became in tune with it. Even the most subtle peddlers had a particular vibe, a type of look, energy or posture. I could now pick up on it quickly. I could tell a peddler from a regular person as soon as they looked at me, before they even said anything. And this is in only two weeks. The young attractive women you approach deal with multiple male peddlers everyday for years. If you think you are some kind of cloaked male player that women can’t pick up on, you are in your own reality bubble. They can detect it and know you are an approacher of women.

Awesome movie. “Lucy” is code for LSD ?

@Anna1 I’d imagine that can be tricky to work through. On the one hand, there can be real psychological consequences from abuse that may need to be worked through. On the other hand, there can be a new layer of victim identity that forms that can become toxic will need to get worked through as well. It seems like a fine line to work through impacts of abuse without falling into victim mentality.

Avoiding them seems pretty strict-forward - just don’t engage. Walk on the other side of the street if needed. Hare Krishnas are not aggressive at all. It’s not like they will come to your home and stalk you. Iteracting with them is a different dynamic. There are Hare Krishnas that swing by my area occasionally and are visible on a University campus when the weather is nice. Although they probably have some unhealthy aspects, there is an energy I like. They often have beautiful clothing and I like the music and dancing. Sometimes I’ll sit under a nearby tree and just watch and listen. Sometimes a leader will walk up to me and engage. They seem caring and nice - yet there is an underlying intention to recruit. I may converse a bit out of curiosity - yet I’m careful to not debate or give the impression my interested In joining. I may ask about if they travel around a lot and what there life is like. They will often talk about their beliefs and I may ask a couple questions out of curiosity. Yet after a while, they pick up on a vibe that I’ve been to a few rodeos and ask “what do you believe?”. I usually say “Nothing” and let there be silence. I don’t need to convince me or them of anything. There is usually an energy shift with a little groundlessness and they re-engage with their beliefs with a little more urgency to convince me (now themselves). I may start asking questions that deconstruct their framework, which throws them off because I’m not taking the position of another religion or a position of science. I’m just deconstructing to Nothing. At this point, they usually think I’m an oddball they can’t make sense of and give up. They aren’t interested in introspecting their beliefs and they realize I’m not recruitment material.

@Anna1 Adding in abuse changes the dynamic for me. Maybe because I empathize more easily with the abused than abusers. . . .I volunteered in a psychiatric ward and most of the women there had gone through serious abuse - mental and physical violence. The energy was very different. They weren’t playing a victim. They had none of the traits listed above. They were so beaten down they seemed numb. The power and abuse dynamic was heavily stacked against them. Their wounds were fresh and many didn’t want to say anything - or were unable to say anything. It was like there wasn’t any desire or fight in them to play a victim. Perhaps if they got a little bit of distance and stability aspects of victim mentality would appear, yet I didn’t sense any in the hospital. I’m not quite sure how to categorize it. Could there be *real* victims that don’t play being a victim? @Preety_India Your old man and my old man should get together and go bowling. - The Breakfast Club

Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose - Janis Joplin

For a long time, I thought playing the victim was when someone acted like a helpless victim for attention and to avoid responsibility. I suppose that is one expression. Yet I've realized victim mentality can also be used very aggressively to gain a dominant position. For example, narcissists use victim mentality as a weapon. It's not always a "poor me, nobody loves me". It can be like a knife. For example, I dated a narcissist and she would often twist situations such that I was at fault. It's not always to get sympathy or avoid responsibility. For example, one time her co-worker was having a birthday event and my ex and I thought we should attend. She was like: "it's a chill event - I don't know her that well and don't like her much. But I should go for a little while since she is a co-worker. Let's stay for an hour and then we do our own thing".. . . So the event was an hour drive away. I do my best to get out of work early and get through traffic. I show up 10-15min. late and she is irate. She knows this is a way to get control in this setting. "How dare you show up late". . . (she then gaslights to leverage the victim mentality). . . "You knew how much this event meant to me and you show up late." (gaslight). "How do you think this makes me feel? I'm mortified. You are so disrespectful to me. My friends asked if we broke up (a lie). And now they see how disrespectful you are to me. This is so embarrassing and hurtful to be disrespected like this". . . This sounds outrageously sick, yet a skilled narcissist starts slow early in the relationship, draws the other person in and slowly tightens the clamp. . . This would trigger my empathy and desire to avoid conflict. I might feel bad that she is upset, try to move on and not make it a big deal out of it. . . Yet a narcissist will want the other person to acknowledge their victim role they have created. . . She would keep pushing until I said something like "Ok, you're right. I should have gotten here on time. Sorry about that. Let's not let it ruin our night. Let's have fun tonight". . . Then they have leverage to get stuff in the future. And they might embellish the story. For example, a week later I catch her sexting with an ex and ask her what's going on . . . She responds: "Well, last week you hurt me by coming a half hour late to my best friends birthday party. People have been talking about that at work and it's been so embarrassing. You haven't even apologized. I don't even know if I'm still your gf. You are probably going on other dates. That's the real reason you were late. You were on another date! Admit it". . . Here she scores a Narcissist Hat Trick: 1. She avoids taking personal responsibility (she is cheating on me), 2. she plays the victim and 3. she goes on offense and accuses me of being the one who is cheating. . . Victimization can be used as a knife. But wait, the dynamic can expand. . . Can I play the victim too? You betcha . . . I too can use victimization to avoid taking personal responsibility and to seek attention/validation. . . I could have gone to a friend and said. . . "I'm such a nice guy and she doesn't appreciate me. . . After all I've done for her, she treats me like this.". . . . My friend may respond: "You are such a genuine good guy. You deserve so much better. I wish you could find someone who deserves you". . . (Awww, shucks. . . ). But wait, the dynamic can expand even more. . . Can I be playing the victim right now?. . . You betcha. . .. I could be. . . Playing victim and self delusion is such a tricky thing. . .

Nice one.

I grew up with Atari 2600.

I like that one. I've noticed if I stare at something ling enough and go "blank" my pre-conceived perception of form goes can shift forms. For example, I'll be lying under a tree staring at the fluttering leaves. Then they aren't leaves anymore. If I catch myself, my brain will reset and I see them as leaves again. Yet if I let go, the form changes and takes new forms. They might be like dancing entities or aural static. . . I don't know if it is a normal thing for brains or if it's HPPD, yet it's kinda cool. . . I have a friend who can see auras and she says she needs to relax and allow them to appear and if she directly acknowledges it, her brain resets and it disappears. She told me I'm close and I can learn how to do it.

That has been my experience. Appearances still appear - boredom, discontent, hunger, fatigue, pain, grouchy etc. . . I like the term "ongoing purification". I usually use the term "clear". Yet it's the same idea. . . . I would add that what resonates as "spiritual practices" can change. I used to formally meditate in a meditation room with statues, incense, spiritual wall hangings and statues, a mediation bell etc. Yet this now often feels like I am trying to manipulate the environment to reach some state. Often, it doesn't feel genuine or natural. I often "meditate" just by staring. I may sit on my couch and just stare at the wall for a half hour. Not in a "zoned out" kind of way. In a state of being Now kind of way. Other times I go in nature. I may sit and stare for a while or just stroll around - just being. I've notice this as well. It is easier to see in others. Then I started realizing my own biases.

I don't mean to encourage anyone to take heroic doses. I did it accidentally with a dosing error. Ime, breakthrough doses is a better target. If I go to high, I blackout. @Consilience Breakthrough doses are one approach. Another approach is tripping consecutive days until you can't handle anymore. I took it to the point that I could no longer tell what a breakthrough was - or if I was even tripping or not.

@Consilience Thanks for sharing your experience and insights with psychedelics. What you wrote got me reflecting about my experience with psychedelics. You bring up the ideas of utility and embodiment. In particular, this quote struck me: "And in my experience, these trips are only as useful as the work I put in while sober. If I dont take action to embody via mediation, yoga, sober contemplation, journalling, self actualizing without drugs, they feel pretty useless. Psychedelics dont help build my focus, calm my mind, build my equanimity, permanently increase awareness, or make me capable of facing hours upon hours of boredom." I see this perspective a lot. That psychedelics are a temporary altered experience we can use as a tool to enrich our real sober life. I totally get that from the personal/human perspective. Yet for me, I think my first trip was so overwhelming, it destroyed this framework. . . . I made a major dosing error my first trip. I intended to take 20ug of 4-Aco-Dmt, yet took about 120ug (which is about 600-700ug of LSD). One awakening that manifested is real-ness. That trip was 100% real. It is as real as me typing on my computer right now. Not real in the sense of reflecting "wow, that trip really seemed real.". Rather. . . real real. As if there are two worlds and neither is more real than the other. Or that there is one world in which I can no longer distinguish between "real" and "unreal". For me, there is not a temporary altered psychedelic state and an ongoing normal sober state. That distinction got obliterated my first trip and it has been permanently embodied without any integration. . . I often hear people talk about psychedelics as an altered reality in which they temporarily enter to grab some insights and then return to a normal reality and try to use the insights to enrich their sober life. It seems weird to me, because it is assuming "sober" is more real or has more relevance than "non-sober". It seems odd to me. It's like trying to take aspects of a dream I had on Tuesday to enrich another dream I have on Thursday. I suppose that's kinda cool in a way, yet neither dream is more real or has more relevance. It would be the same as saying I want to enter a temporary altered sober state with the intention of getting insights that can enrich my real normal psychedelic life. "How can insights from a sober trip be permanently embodied in my psychedelic life?". This gets me thinking about your point about long-term embodiment. . . I often hear people tell newbies to start off with small doses and work their way up. This is a gentle approach that can reduce risks and trauma. Yet I also question whether it is the most effective approach toward trans-personal awakening. An incremental approach may allow the mind and body to stay within a grounded sober reality. This grounding gets shaken up a bit during temporary trips, yet the person gets re-grounded in sobriety. This can be helpful for the mind and body to stay stable as a person. Yet, I wonder if this gradual approach can allow the mind to acclimate and build resistance to long-term embodiment. Such that the mind adapts to psychedelics and re-calibrates such that there is a "sober" that remains "normal". . . For me, the accidental heroic dose was like a 9.5 earthquake that decimated the ground. And that ground has never looked "normal" again. I was never able to re-create normalcy of sobriety or perceive psychedelics as an altered state. Last week I was with a devote buddhist seeking enlightenment. I started getting into deconstruction to absolute Nothing. There was really strong resonance and she was fully engaged as if she was about to have a major awakening. . . . She had a slight shift in energy and asked "Wait a minute. . . was this a real experience or did it happen on that Meo stuff?". . . I chuckled. It was like she asked "Wait a minute. . . did this experience happen on that Tuesday stuff?". . . Normies can be comical creatures. . . I'd love to start a YT channel for normies similar to the channels that have cute cats doing silly things. . . Video clips of normies saying silly things like "Was it real or was it 5-meo?".

This is an absolute and relative question. If you create two infinities, how do you know there are two infinities? Because you can contrast one infinity relative to another infinity. These are infinities relative to each other. Both relative infinities are "within" absolute infinity. Another way to look at it. . . Look around the room you are in. Imagine it as One Everything in the room. Every single thing in the room is One Everything. This is absolute Everything in the room. Can we divide the room into two and say "everything on the right side of the room is one everything and everything on the left side of the room is another everything". Sure. . . Notice how these everythings are relative to each other. There is the left side everything and the right side everything. . . Now consider the One Absolute Everything in the room. The One Absolute Everything includes the right side everything in the room AND the left side everything in the room.

Just another way of looking at it. . . Imagine you are a pianist teaching someone how to play the piano. You realize the person has a condition in which they are aware of their right hand, yet unaware of their left hand. They only want to use their right hand. . . What would be the best approach in this situation? Should we teach playing the piano with only a right hand? That doesn't seem like the best approach to me. . . Should we point to their right hand and explain the value of the right hand in playing the piano? Well, they already are aware of their right hand. The problem is that they are contracted within their right hand. . . We may ask "Why not show the value of both hands?". Ok, let's try that. We tell the student "There is value in both the left hand and right hand". The person then goes off into an analysis of left hand vs. right hand and all sorts of theory about left vs. right hand, evidence of left hand vs. right hand, the science of left hand vs. right hand etc. . . Well that didn't go over very well, because they are still not aware of their actual left hand. . . To me, it would be best to say "Look!! Your left hand!! Look at it. Right here and now. There is an actual left hand Here and Now". . . If they realize the actuality of their left hand, we can now explore the actual inter-relationship of left and right hand while playing the piano Here and Now. Then we can explore how left and right hand is actually both parts of the same body. . . Yet this is not possible if one does not realize the actuality of their left hand in direct experience Here and Now (not the theory of a left hand). The love is showing someone they have two hands that are One. The Beauty is the music we create.

You don't "need" to date. Nor "should" you date. . . If you have a genuine desire to explore dating, go for it. If you have a desire to date, yet don't feel ready then perhaps take a look at underlying issues. If you are resonating with exploring existential realms and feel that dating is a distraction, then don't date. Follow your heart and true desires. Let love be your guide. And not dating doesn't necessary mean isolating oneself from women. Currently, I'm not dating anyone - yet I have two close female friends. We discuss deep stuff including sexuality. I think many people think "intimacy" must mean dating and sex. Yet there are flavors of intimacy that do not involve dating and physical sex.

nothing can capture everything Nothing can capture Everything

That is a common view by many. There is a path of personal renunciation. It is an essence of zen buddhism. There is certainly something beneficial of isolating oneself from wordly desires and distractions and practicing all day every day. If someone is living in a hectic environment it can be much harder to quiet the mind and body. It is much easier to quiet the mind-body in peaceful nature than it is in a busy train station. Rather than saying "it's impossible", observe what is happening without any judgement or identification. When you spend time with your friends, your mind becomes highly active with thoughts. There is a desire to calm the mind and do self enquiry, yet are unable to meet that desire. There is frustration and a thought story that the only way to reach a calm mind is to live in a monastery. . . . Rather than engage in the story, you can deconstruct it, observe it and create a new story. . . First, self enquiry is an advanced practice. Generally it is not ideal for beginners because the mind will want to think, analyze and figure stuff out. You seem to have a desire to calm the mind. I would work on that. What types of activities help calm the mind? . . . Perhaps set aside 30min. each day to calm the mind. Sit and meditate. Do yoga. Walk in nature. Take a bath. Create a calm, peaceful setting. . . This is "calm mind" time. If the mind gets busy, just tell it that we are doing a "calm mind workout", there will be plenty of time for thought stories after our "calm mind workout". . . With practice, you will likely notice small "gaps" between thoughts. Those are golden. . . . I remember thinking "It's impossible to stop thinking. It can't be done". Yet then I was aware of a small empty "gap", between thoughts. That was the first indicator that stillness in the mind was possible. Then the gaps between thoughts got longer and I realized the mind was "slowing down". Sometimes there were 5 seconds between thoughts - enough time that I was experiencing reality without thoughts. Then the thoughts became less powerful. I didn't sit down and have tea with my thoughts. . . One can also try to do a solo retreat. If possible, get away from it all for a full day or weekend. Go camping in the woods for a couple days solo. As well, reducing phone and internet time can be helpful - and engaging in what is happening Now.

By this logic, when you are sleeping you are not perceiving reality, your body doesn't exist and there is no you.

@Sidi It can be really challenging to develop a platonic relationship with a gal when there is romantic attraction. One thing I've done to reduce the amount of desire is to cut-off the option of dating, sex, relationship with her. A major source of desire energy is potential, fantasy and anticipation. If she was 100% unavailable the attraction would likely be knocked down considerably. For example, if she was a lesbian, married, had two children and moving to another country next month - a lot of romantic attraction would be sucked away like a vacuum cleaner. For me, one thing that has helped is to shut the door on the possibility of dating, sex and a relationship with her. I would pick a time that felt right and say something like "I really like spending time together and I value our friendship a lot. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to date, yet I don't want to do that because it would alter our friendship and the friendship comes first for me". I've done this with several woman and it always goes over well. Women are used to being viewed and treated as a sexual object and for a guy to say that they like her so much as a person that they don't want to get sexual can be really meaningful to her. It's counter-intuitive. Once the dating/sex door is shut, a lot of the sexual energy can dissolve. As well, a lot of the sexual energy may be contracted because she doesn't know. Once it's out in the open, it can partially dissolve. It can open up doors to deeper friendship. . . I've found it best to say it indirectly like "sometimes I wonder what it would be like to date", rather than "I feel so much sexual energy for you that I often fantasize about us having sex". . . A subtle, indirect statement is more than enough since there is so much leverage with sexuality. Don't make it a big deal. This is something that has helped me with female friends where there is some sexual energy. It may not be helpful for others though. I've had three cases in which this allowed for a better friendship and reduced the sexual energy. Yet I've also had one case in which once I became unavailable, she became sexually attracted to me - which complicated things. Every dynamic is different.

There are many threads on "nice guy syndrome". Below are several examples. It's something a lot of guys go through.

Within the context of a physical body, mind and personal consciousness - there is a lot of mystery about life, death, after-life, re-incarnation etc.

It's fine to explore human imaginations about physical bodies and death. I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying. There are some beautiful stories and profound contemplations about life and death. . . I'm saying that there is something else. If you want to imagine and conceptualize death within human cognition, that is great. . . Yet if you want to get to the deeper levels, this won't cut it. You are trying to dig through concrete with a spoon. . . To dig deeper, I would drop the spoon and start using a bulldozer Yet there will be tremendous resistance to this since the ego mind will not like what is revealed at the deeper levels. To reach the deeper levels, there are sacrifices.