Forestluv

I think you make a good point here. For me, attachment/identification with experience went deep. It was really hard to realize and accept that my experience never happened. My experience is actually contextualizations occurring now and there are an infinite number of contextualizations possible. Yet with this realization came a freedom and opened a door to the magic of Now. I have found it helpful to make a distinction between direct experience happening Now and contextualized experience. Yet this gets nuanced and the ego likes to sneak in. . .

I like these types of models, yet I’m unclear on something. What does the vertical Y axis represent?

I’ve found it really hard to break up with gf that I still have feelings for and then pivot into some type of supportive friend. Especially if she is exploring other guys. It’s just heart-wrenching for me. I’ve found it better to get space and distance - to experience the sorrow, grow, do self love and reach out to others. Once I’m grounded again and the feelings have faded (perhaps after a month or so) I’ve reestablished contact and stayed friends. It’s hard because I don’t want to let go. Yet I’ve found it harder to try and halfway hold on.

The personal story simply appears and disappears in reality. Watch your thought stories appear from nowhere. It’s amazing.

Sometimes I think about how crude our map of the brain is. We can sorta alter brain activity with chemicals like SSRIs and psychedelics, yet with very low resolution. I think about 200 years from now with high resolution maps and highly precise alterations with chemicals, magnets, electricity and quantum whatevers. Perhaps enough precision to create an internal Star Trek Holodeck.

Yep. And it gives cover to backtrack. In reference to Mexico and Central America, Trump said “We have people coming into the country or trying to come in, we're stopping a lot of them, but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals." Again, he uses a non-discriminatory word "people" and even de-humanizes these "people". His supporters know he is referring to Mexicans and Central Americans. When pressed, Trump supporters can say "He didn't say all Mexicans and Central Americans are bad animals". . . The derogatory message is harmful, yet I think what is omitted is equally as harmful. Trump omits the part that crime rates for immigrants are no higher than U.S. citizens. Trump omits the part that the vast majority of people at the border are desperate asylum seekers from horrific conditions. These are people that are willing to work hard and want to give their children a good life. Rather, Trump portrays the 5% of violent immigrants to be representive 95% of immigrants. He needs to do this to stoke up fear and tribalism in his supporters. Trump could easily set the record straight. He could clearly state that only a small percentage of immigrants have bad intentions and the majority are desperate asylum seekers. Yet he doesn't because it would blow up his whole narrative.

These are all bricks and framework of the same building. There may be some nice views on the rooftop. Yet be careful about becoming Quasimodo.

@Scholar You say: "Nobody disagrees on what is Good and Bad because in each individual mind Goodness and Badness emerges at different kind of mind-states. It works exactly the same as Anger does. Some people get angry at some things and others get angry at other things" I don't think you are seeing how this is a relative construct. You have constructed a things called: Good, Bad, disagreement, individual, mind, mind-states, anger, people, things, other things. There is an enormous amount of relativity here. When you say "some people get angry at some things. . . ". Anger relative to what? (not anger). People relative to what? (other people). Some things relative to what? (not other things). If you remove the relativity, you lose the distinctions and there are no longer things called "wrong, right, anger" etc. These are relative constructs that are being created, yet you seem to promoting them as universally true.

I'm trying to get clear on your ideas here. It doesn't seem like you may be putting a twist onto relativity. It seems like you are essentially saying that to call "A" as "B" is deception. For example, a chair is blue. Or, killing is wrong. . . . Rather, "A is A" and "B is B": blue is blue, a chair is a chair, killing is killing and wrong is wrong. If so, this is one exercise I do when I walk through nature. I notice myself saying things like "that flower is beautiful". There are two aspects of relativity here. There is a flower relative to non-flowers and beautiful relative to non-beautiful. It seems like you are saying that this is conflating two relativistic dimensions of existence, which I would agree with. We can remove a dimension of relativity by saying: the flower is a flower. I would agree that is is "purer" in the sense that it is only one dimension of relativity, yet there is still relativity. A flower is a flower relative to what? There is still labeling a flower as a "thing" relative to non-flowers. If we say "wrong is wrong" , wrong relative to what? Without any contrast, there is no blue, chair, killing, wrong, flower or beauty. Without contrast, there are no dimensions of distinction and we can go one step further. "wrong is wrong" is now "IS is IS" - and we don't need the extra IS's. It becomes One IS. . . . Thus, there is no right or wrong at an absolute level (with no dimensions of relativity). You seem to have removed one dimension of distinction, yet still have a dimension of distinction. Saying "blue is blue" is still a distinction from what is not blue. If Everything was blue, there would be no blue to say "blue is blue"'.

It looks like you are looking at a big picture of a happy, good life. One in which there a good times and rough times, yet holistically its a good life. It reminds me of long distance running. There were times that were blissful and exciting. . . and there were times that I was uncomfortable and didn't want to be running. Yet overall, it was a great activity that added to my life. Even when my body was throbbing, I could still be silly and make fun of myself. There were times after marathons that I could barely walk for days. I struggled to get up off the toilet. At times I would laugh at the absurdity of it - it was like I was an old man in a young body. . . I've also known people that seem to have positive attitudes even during hardships. Some people can "make lemonade out of lemons". . . I also think there is another form of happiness that is unconditional, yet perhaps it is more elusive because it doesn't fit the standard idea of an emotional happiness.

For me, the dosage of 5-meo stimulates different flavors of trips. I'm comparing a relatively low 5-meo dose to dilaudid below. My trips with dilaudid was when I was in a hospital with a kidney stone. The first was the most profound. The nurse didn't drip through an IV - she shot it into me all at once. There was a wave that overtook me and I was like "Whoa. . . what was that?". . . I immediately loved it. And not just for the cessation of physical pain. Everything was ok. No problems, no worries. No nothing. There was pure bliss in the moment. There was no place in the world I would have rather been than that hospital room. It was like taking a trip to Bora Bora and being on the beach getting a massage. Yet even better. The energy was peace, bliss and love. Time stopped. It was deeper than a simple feel-good pleasure. There was an essence of bliss, peace, love and Now. A few years later, I tried 5-meo for the first time - a low/moderate dose. After reading reports online, I had some anxiety about the impending ego death. Yet it wasn't like that at all. There was a little bit of resistance and letting go. Then there was a surreal peace, bliss, love and connection,. It was very different than any psychedelic trip I've had. It reminded me more of the dilaudid trip years ago. I thought "That's what heroin is like" (even though I've never done heroin). Then I got online and started reading about people's experience with 5-meo and heroin. There are actually forums with people talking about 5-meo and heroin trips that were using 5-meo in the same context of heroin. I understood. . . . Later, I watched a documentary on Janis Joplin and all her turmoils. There was a part about her addiction to heroin and how it was the only thing that could get her to "that place". I felt like I knew that place Janis went to. I would say there are similarities at low/moderate 5-meo doses. There is a presence of being absolutely ok in the present moment that is a form of bliss. Its hard for me to describe this essence of Now-ness. . . Differences: there was zero resistance, anxiety or discomfort with dilaudid. It was pure wonderful. As well, there were cravings afterward for more. Even after one exposure, my body wanted more and my mind was scheming to get more. My mind thought maybe I could convince them to give me a dilaudid prescription. And I was willing to pretend my symptoms were worse to get a script (I didn't get one). I think there is very high risk of dependency and addiction with dilaudid. With 5-meo, there was also a mind-body craving that I never experienced with psychedelics. This gave me concern. Yet the craving wasn't as intense as with dilaudid. I think because 5-meo wasn't quite the same type of bliss. 5-meo also a bit of physical and mental discomfort with it during the comeup.

I think this may be entering an area of relative and absolute happiness. For me, relative happiness is a pleasurable state of being. That type of relative happiness appears and disappears. I can do some things activities to invite it's appearance, yet it's not something I can turn on or off at will. All sorts of feeling appear and disappear: feelings of fatigue, hunger, grouchiness, joy, curiosity, confusion, love, attraction, annoyance etc. They come and go. Yet through the practice and process of letting go, healing, realizations, my mind-body is much more relaxed, present and content with Now that it used to be. Yet I would say that there is also a deeper form of happiness that is always present and can be accessed. Yet it's not limited to a giggling feel good kind of happiness. I remember about a year ago, I was listening to some sad music. Sad songs just kept coming up on my Pandora station. Each song was about loss and sorrow. Like the loss of a loved one. Outside it was raining. It's like I felt the sorrow of so many human beings. Yet not like a suffering sorrow. The other side of true sorrow is true joy. They are two sides of the same coin. The reason the singers could experience so much sorrow is because they experienced so much joy. It was so beautiful. I spent hours in beautiful sadness and I had no reason to be sad. It had nothing to due with me. And I didn't want to be anywhere else in the world. I wanted to be Now with this music and rain - with this human experience. . . . Later that night, I told my gf about it and she immediately said "Oh no! That's too bad. Let's do something to change the way you feel and make you better". She didn't get it. This sadness was transcendent to my own personal suffering. There was an underlying peace, beauty, love and connection to humanity about it. In a way, it was "happy", yet not in a relative giggling happy way. . . This type of happiness of presence seems to be always present. It's like being Now and wanting to be Now. During the sadness, there is no place I would have rather been than Here and Now experiencing what I was experiencing. That is a deep form of happiness to me.

That's beautiful. It reminds me of a time I was out in nature feeling happy. Then I thought "why am I happy?". I didn't have a reason. Like you said, I realized how much of my happiness was dependent on external events. "As soon as I get a gf, I will be happy.", "I soon as I finish this semester of classes I can be happy", "If I was on a beach in Costa Rica, I could be happy". It's like I had "rules" for my happiness. . . . So here I was just sitting in nature with no reason to be happy, yet there was happiness. And it just wasn't my happiness. I was also sitting within happiness around me. It felt free to me. It was beautiful.

I think Anand speaks eloquently on this theme of billionaire altruism. In particular, billionaires that launder themselves through donation for their greater benefit. I like how Anand makes clear that it's not about the donation itself. The donation itself is fine. It is using the donation to cloak oneself that can be a problem. For example, a billionaire CEO at JP Morgan may donate 10 million dollars to a charity, which is wonderful. Yet that 10 million dollars is a trivial expense to the billionaire and he may get a lot of mileage out of it. The billionaire could promote an image of himself that is altruistic as he his manipulating poor people with toxic loans. The shady behavior of the billionaire may inhibit his access to politicians and tax policy. The politician is just too uncomfortable to meet with such a shady billionaire. Yet, a 10 million dollar donation to an orphanage provides enough cover that could give the billionaire access to the politician and allow him to alter tax policy in his favor. Anand speaks about this early in the interview. He doesn't hold back at all. It's awesome.

Just an idea that popped up. . . You say that happiness isn't anywhere but right here. Would you say that happiness is something that appears and disappears right here? Or is happiness always right here?

To me, it seems like this is beginning to transcend "suffering". In addition to inquiring "who is the one who suffers?", one could inquire "what is suffering?". Without a "one who suffers" is there suffering? A big part of inquiry for me is allowing empty space and observing what arises. When I am actually suffering, what is it? What the heck is the substance of suffering in my direct experience? What you wrote about re-directing attention can lead to insights, ime. It is taking the view of an observer. When there is observation, what is revealed? When my mind and body is experiencing suffering, what does a detached observer view? One dynamic is a very strong desire not to be experiencing what is being experience Now. That isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, yet it is a dynamic. There is a strong desire to not be Now-ing in the Now-ness of Now. A desire to make it stop, a desire to change it, a desire for relief. This can manifest in many ways. The mind-body may feel anxiety. It may want escape. It may lash out at others. Ime, it is extremely difficult to enter a transcendent awareness of Now when the mind-body is in suffer-mode. The last thing my mind-body desires is Being Now. . . Yet if one can access it, there is a very deep realization of absolute Peace. Unconditional Peace. It's deeply profound, yet super hard to access ime. My mind-body is more oriented toward conventional feel-good peace. The type of peace that comes when the body is relaxed, feeling bliss and loving now. Thats an awesome space, yet that is a conditional peace that is dependent on circumstances.

@thinlizzy1978 Most of my trips have not gone into the types of realms you have been describing. I've had a few of these astral realm experiences, in particular with Ayahuasca. Also a few trips with past lives themes. I think it's an intriguing area to explore. Perhaps try a different psychedelic environment. I think the environment at the Ayahuasca ceremonies helped draw me into other realms - such as the music, singing and collective energy. It seemed to draw in spirits. . . I also became much more sensitive to psychedelics over time. As if I became more open, curious and willing to let go. I also think allowing imagination to flourish and merge with realness is helpful. Last summer, I worked on lucidity and had mild entry into other realms through dreams and awake. For example, by laying under a tree or by a lake for hours - just staring. Or through shamanic breathing. . . .Yet taking something like Aya or DMT would be a springboard.

Ime, my mind wants to contextualize a psychedelic trip into a an experience with meaning. There's nothing wrong with that, yet I've learned to become aware of it. If one takes a psychedelic with the mindset "this psychedelic will show me god", one needs to be careful of this filter. If one sees machine elve's during the trip, then machine elve's become god. If one sees fractals during a trip, then fractals become god. If one sees radiance in a tree, that becomes god. Yet there is also something transcendent to these contextualizations. The mind is conditioned to perceive in subject-object. . . I (subject) saw fractals (object) during my (subject) trip (object). Thus, those fractals (object) represent god (object). This is an external god relative to my internal perception. There is another layer in which subject-object dissolves into beingness. This beingness can be expressed infinitely. Those fractals are god, yet so is the duck on the pond. God isn't limited to some realm "out there". God is also Here and Now.

I wouldn't frame it as "non state" either. Yet "non state" is a realization, relative to "state". Ime, it's an important realization because the mind realizes a contrast to "state". You also seem to be exploring other realizations as well. I would also say the realms you speak of carry a lot of deep insights. Notice how difficult it is to discuss. We are both using the term "it", yet there is no "it", yet there is also an "it". This is one of the limits of language. Any word/image we use is not another word/image. For the mind to hold any word/image there must be form. You seem to have a lot of curiosity about different realms, meditation and psychedelics. Have you tried psychedelics? If not, are you curious to try it?

@thinlizzy1978 Of what you wrote, this is the closest, ime. Yet I would drop the "their mind" part. There is simply the ISness of entire universe. You are universe. The other stuff is contextualized add-ons and unnecessary, imo. Yet as humans we love to create experiences, stories and share them with our fellow humans. Story creation and story telling is beautiful. Yet, immersion/attachment/identification/seeking of stories can also be distracting to the ISness "prior/beneath" the stories. Your posts seem oriented toward using psychedelics to access some type of state or destination somewhere out there. Psychedelics can certainly be used for that and it can be quite insightful. Psychedelics can also help us to return to Here and Now.

This thread has run it's course. Guys: don't sexually objectify women in this sub-forum.

It doesn't matter. What matters is it is a HUGE chest size and TINY waist size. Exactly! Nobody does!!!

60cm = a 23.5 inch waist. Going by the chart, that would be a size of -3 (negative 3). . . So attractiveness is a woman with a size negative 3 waist and size double D chest. . . Please. . . .Totally absurd. Unfortunately, many young women have to deal with this type of delusional male standard of attractiveness. That would be like saying attractiveness for a male is 6'6'' (2m) tall, 50'' (125cm) chest and 4% body fat.

This is all second-order conceptualizing. That's fine. Yet there is something prior to these concepts. You can get a taste of it right now if you are able to let go of "Yeah, but. . . ". Look around you right now. . . How do you know it's Now? . . Notice that any answer you give is second order. It comes after the Knowing. You may say "Well, I know it's Now because I can touch things". That's second order. You just Know it's Now. You don't need any evidence. The Truth of Now is prior to any evidence or thought stories you create in your head. You've never asked for evidence that Now is Now. You just Know.

Welcome to the forum. You got a good look at nonduality and "high conscious" integrative awareness/thinking. . . . Integrate what you can. Be mindful of over-contextualizing and trying to make sense of it all. It is at a "higher" level than intellect. You essentially got direct experience that is worth many years of spiritual work. Yes. Mixing high doses of two intensely neuro-active compounds as a teenager in this setting with little experience is risky and irresponsible. You are fortunate that things worked out ok and "you got away with it". Things aligned for you and you were given a gift. Yet be careful with psychedelics going forward. They are very powerful at high doses.