Forestluv

Below are some ideas about this. They are not directed at anyone one person. I would first ask myself: Am I actually concerned about the social dynamics of gender and abuse? Or am I more concerned that I feel personally neglected, rejected and disrespected by women? These are two very different orientations. For example, I may be in a healthy relationship and curious about social gender dynamics. Perhaps I am writing a psychology term paper on it. This is a very different orientation than if I have gone through a series of dates in which I was feeling rejected, neglected, disrespected and abused by women. These are two very very different filters. Integrating individual and societal levels: The above frame has an equality on one level, yet extrapolates it to to equalize an inequality on another level. For example, we could say it is equally wrong if a woman or a man is raped. At the individual level, we can say rape is wrong whether it was a woman or man that was raped. Regardless of gender, rape can be traumatic and leave wounds and scars that need healing. The person often needs help and assistance from others to work through it. This it at the individual level and does not necessarily extrapolate to the bigger picture level. At the individual level, there are abusive power dynamics between two individuals. At the population level, there are new power dynamics that must be considered. At the population level, the vast majority of people raped are women. At this level, it doesn't make sense to complain that the vast majority of rape kits and support services for rape are oriented toward women. This is also true for domestic violence. I volunteered in an institution that offered support for domestic violence victims. The vast majority (about 95%) were women. These are the social dynamics. In general, men are more aggressive and social structures favor men - giving them certain privileges. In general, women enduring domestic violence abuse have a much more difficult time leaving the abuse. For example, men overall have higher paying jobs and women can find themselves in relationships in which there is financial dependence - especially when children are involved. The woman may have spent years raising the children and never received education and skill development. Her income potential is much lower and divorce courts generally favor men financially. As well, inequalities in gender power dynamics can allow a man to get away with a lot. For example, abusive behavior can be dismissed as "it was just boys being boys" (see Brett Kavanaugh). There are huge advantages for men at the societal level. At the personal level: One may say "Well, I'm not talking about rape of physical violence, I'm talking about other kinds of abuse". Here, personal filters can cloud one's vision. If a woman neglects or rejects me, I may feel hurt. I may say "I've been abused". The personal perception is that "I have been abused". Yet is this really "abuse?" or is it something for the person to work through? In one respect, there is genuine hurt for which we can have compassion. Yet in another respect, labeling it as "abuse" makes it really easy to fall into a victim mentality trap. Part of the victim mentality trap is to overstate a situation, generalize it and then identify with the larger group. For example, if I feel like I've been neglected and hurt by women I may overstate this as "abuse", I can then generalize it (Women abuse men. How about us men that are abused? Why aren't we getting any attention and love?). I can now avoid personal introspection and direct the attention toward women. I can then identify within a larger male group that identifies as being abused by women. I can then join a group like MGTOW - this will reinforce my self image. It deepens the trap. Blaming women, seeing myself as abused and immersing myself with men that reinforce my beliefs and image are all factors that will make personal introspection and growth very difficult. I will keep attracting that type of energy into my life. At a personal level, I've observed a tendency to flip from one extreme to the other. For example, I may blame women for my hurt / frustrations and then flip to the opposite extreme and blame myself. "Well, if it's not women's fault, it must be my fault. I'm just not good enough. I'll never attract a woman and be in a healthy relationship". This is also a trap that will prevent growth. There are other orientations that allow space for development and growth.

You = We = All = God

This thread is three years old and the OP hasn’t visited the forum in 9 months.

I'm not referring to criticism itself or motivations. I'm referring to degree of conditions. Imo, your analogy was unfair based on degree. For example, imagine an immigrant family that has lived in a country for several generations. The younger generations don't even speak their native tongue anymore. They don't even know anyone from the original country. In their current (home) country, they are subjected to brutal discrimination and abuse. They call out that this isn't fair and there should be just laws. Someone tells this person "if you don't like it, leave the country". . . Now imagine someone in a movie theater watching a free movie. This person is annoyed that a few people in the theatre are whispering. He believes this is disrespectful. He complains to the manager. The manager thinks he is complaining in a rude manner and tells him "If you don't like it, you are free to leave the theatre". In both examples, each person was asking for change - the other person didn't like them asking for change and said they were free to leave. In this regard, there is a direct comparison. I have no problem with that. What I'm pointing to is degree. The immigrant exposed to brutal conditions and abuse is a more severe degree than someone at a free movie annoyed by whispering. The inequality of degree is the unfair comparison in my view. I've notice that people often try to leverage snd legitimize their position by choosing to draw an analogy to a condition more severe in degree than their own. On the flip side, it trivializes the more severe condition. That is the unfairness.

Those immigrants have moved their families to live in the US, often at extreme sacrifice and peril. Immigrants are often oppressed, ostracized and targeted for abuse - even though they contribute to the country through hard work and paying taxes. Sending them back to the "country they came from" would impose extreme hardships on them. To compare that to disgruntled users that complain/criticize on an internet forum is waaay off the mark, imo. I think a better comparison would be people that are offered free classes to learn a foreign language. Constructive criticism is fine. It is helpful to the foreign language coordinators to improve the classes. Yet if someone was complaining in a toxic manner, I think it would be appropriate to ask them to tone it down, to criticize in a respectful manner or to leave if they were that upset. There are people working to provide them free access and if they are that upset, leaving is no hardship at all to them.

Looks like Boris is about to wipe the Parliament floor with Corbyn ?

It seems like thought stories of the future are scaring you. Freedom to be Here and Now

It doesn't need to be this dramatic. The human mind is conditioned with a thought story about "me" and how everything is "real". One way this can be transcended is to realize that "me" and other things are illusions. Yet this is just a halfway point. Don't get trapped in a new thought story about how everything is illusion and nothing is real. That is just a new thought story and it will cause the mind and body a lot of distress. If you continue on, you will see these are all just thoughts. Illusion = Real and Real = Illusion. They cancel each other out and all that is left is what IS Here and Now. And that is liberating, beautiful and magical.

They are all immersed in personalities and outward behavior. Immersed in how an enlightened person should act. "Me this, she that, him this, you that. He should provide for his wife and listen to her. He makes me upset. She doesn't understand". And on and on. All within personal stories and how things should be. There is transcendence to that.

It’s a spiritual version of a Jerry Springer Show. I was waiting for Dr. Phil to bring out the guy’s psychic mistress.

@assx95 ♥️ Locked by request of OP

They are all immersed in personalities and behavior.

Yes, as well as when interacting with women. I couldn’t count how many times I’ve asked women “what’s _____ like?”. Last week I was out for tea with a friend and asked her “what’s it like when you converse with other women compared to when you converse with men?” She told me all sorts of dynamics between women and men. Stuff I never even considered. Then I started noticing it all around me. It’s amazing. 80% of my social interactions are with women.

@Deanna Feeling groundless at times is completely normal and often a good sign. Some of my best growth spurts have been in times with uncertainty and curiosity.

That’s beautiful.

Guys. . . try to see things from the female’s perspective. It will save you a lot of confusion and frustration.

Follow your heart ♥️

@cetus56 I’d consider krishnamurti an honorable mention as a westerner. In particular because he transcended the pressures of his native culture and became his own authority. He had no allegiance to anything. I love that about him.

@assx95 I wouldn’t beat yourself up over this. It’s a good learning opportunity. Yet to me, it looks like the ship could use some major re-steering, rather than a few minor tweaks.

@cetus56 I like how he implores others to understand. Krishnamurti did that as well. It’s like you have an amazing gift you genuinely want to give to others.

@Nak Khid I would agree that pure nonduality teachers are relatively recent in Western civilizations. My hunch is that the internet accelerated the process.

I’m reminded of a game called “Twister”. It was a game in the 1980s in the US. People twisted their body into all sorts of odd configurations on a large polka dot mat. During the game, it is very serious for those who are twisting. Yet for observers, it’s quite humorous. Eventually, the people get so twisted into each other they can’t hold it any longer. Everyone falls down and there is relief and laughter.

How interesting. I’ve never heard of trying this. As a runner, what comes up for me is recovery time. There is cold tolerance during the real n and recovery after the run. Perhaps treat cold recovery similar to how we would treat heart rate recovery or lactate recovery. For example, one measure of fitness is how quickly heart rate returns to baseline after running an interval. Perhaps you could measure how long it takes your body to return to temperature homeostasis. For now, it is 1-2 hrs. Perhaps after two months, it will only take a half hour. That would show adaptation. Yet this assumes the uncomfortable cold feeling isn’t too stressful on the mind and body.

George Gurdjieff lived from 1866-1949. A generation before Alan Watts. I wonder if George influence Alan in any way. They didn’t have the internet back then. . .

My pleasure ♥️ ?