Forestluv

Two good coronavirus trackers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (thanks @Chakra Lion) https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html (a great global map) As well, Johns Hopkins University experts will be offering a free online discussion tomorrow. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/ TUNE IN HERE: from 12 to 12:45 p.m. ET on Friday, March 20, join Johns Hopkins experts as they discuss the politics of the information environment around COVID-19, including what social science tells us about how public health communications work; what governments, media, and platforms can do to counter misinformation; and how COVID-19 compares to other public health issues, such as gun violence or vaccines.

@Chakra Lion On a mobile device, there are toggle buttons. But yea, it's much better on a monitor or ipad. Thanks for sharing the other link, that is a good one too. I just like geographic maps a lot.

I think they announced it tonight. Yes, first payment of $1000 to each adult and $500 each child. I think this is a really important step since it's critical that there is voluntary participation during a lockdown. If people are receiving compensation to make ends meet, they will be more willing to stay inside. . . One of the keys in the Spain, Italy and France lockdowns is people are willing to do it. They are miserable, yet willing. If too many people in the U.S. rebel, it could turn ugly. . . .There is a very delicate balance. If the government lockdown is too lenient, the hospital overwhelm will be much worse. Yet it the government lockdown is too strict, loss of public confidence and rebellion would be a big problem. . . It seems epidemiologists are aiming for the "sweet spot" - to flatten the curve as much as possible without creating an uprising. . . It's a really good thing Trump changed his tone this week. If Trump was still calling the coronavirus a "democrat hoax" and the "Coronavirus Impeachment Scam" during state lockdown attempts, there would be massive social uprisings and conflict. From a selfish perspective, I'm hoping I can avoid the virus until herd immunity develops as protection until the vaccine is developed. Yet if I knew my symptoms would just mild or moderate, I would want it now to get immunity and peace of mind. Imagine those who have already recovered from the virus. Their immunity is like a super power.

@unicity I like his orientation on the urgency of the acute viral threat. Yet I also think, as a billionaire, he is out of touch with what it's like to be living paycheck-to-paycheck and face unemployment. He pretty much says "Go home for 30 days and don't worry about paying rent or food". Well, the government better get those checks out soon and guarantee deferred rent and mortgage payments. 40% of americans live paycheck to paycheck and can't come up with $400 in this emergency. Two weeks is a very long time to wait. The lack of testing is one of the major issues. It was a huge mistake for the fed. to refuse testing kits from the WHO and try to design our own test (the first attempt failed). Some politicians, like Trump, were actually repressing test preparation so they wouldn't look bad. We lost precious time. I know hindsight is 20-20, yet we could have easily developed a test in January at little cost and then ramped up production through february of the test and PPEs. With a PR campaign with what was coming, we would have been prepared like South Korea was (who had far less time to prepare). In a four-day period from 8 March to the morning of 11 March, only 77 people in the country were tested. This was during the exponential viral growth phase. 77 people tested in four days!! We should have done about 400,000 tests during that time. Currently, we are at about 10,000 tests per day and should be 100,00+ per day minimum. I know it's easy for me to play keyboard jockey in the comfort of my home, yet this is a failure of epic proportions and now the burden is shifted to health care providers and researchers working around the clock in harm's way.

It will be interesting to see how much support or backlash celebrities like this will encounter. Americans hold individual freedom dearly. The good news is that a lockdown would not involve people losing their TV. “Where we are right now feels a lot too close to Marshall Law [sic] for my comfort already, all in the name of a respiratory flu,” she responded in another comment. “It’s unnerving…Let’s be vigilant right now. And kind. Watchful and gracious — keeping a close eye on our leaders, making sure they don’t abuse this moment to steal away more freedoms and grab more power.” In another comment, Lilly implied there could be a conspiracy behind coronavirus given its close timing to the presidential election. This sounds like someone who has lost trust in government, which is not surprising based on much of the behavior of government. I agree that some powerful people will use this crisis to grab power, yet I'm not seeing that yet, we are still in the acute phase. . . Similar to 9/11 - in the beginning, it seemed like we were "all in this together". . . for a couple months. . . and then using the crisis for power grabs started - NSA surveillance, invading Iraq etc. I predict a similar dynamic here. Right now, I think we are in the acute trauma phase. Based on what is happening in other countries, the data and what epidemiologists are saying, this seems like a severe threat that warrants a severe response. Yet I also predict that before long, some people will use this crisis for a power grab. If we stay on Italy's course, we are looking at 20,000 new cases each day in about 10 days - which would overwhelm the health care system. Yet so many Americans think "It can't happen to us" or go into end-of-world panic. . . . It's mind boggling to me. . . There will be many books and documentaries about this in the future.

As well as nervous breakdowns, depression, suicides etc. There are a lot of people right on the edge of maintaining mental stability. They may have moderate anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, autism, ocd etc. and were able to keep it together with some support and medication. Yet this crisis is going to shift everything over a notch. . . I think it will be an opportunity for some people to do soul-searching and experience growth, yet for others it will tip them over such that they have a much harder time functioning in society. The need for psychologists and therapy is going to go much higher.

I've spent this week in isolation. My contact with other humans have been tele-conferencing. It's only been a few days. Today I came into work and one of the secretaries was in the main office. We were the only ones in the building. As we spoke with each other, there was a sense of intimacy that I hadn't noticed. Just being in each other's presence. It's something I had always taken for granted. . . We stayed about 8 feet apart from each other as we talked. A few times, we got within a few feet of each other and that intimacy intensified. I felt an urge to make physical contact. Not in any type of sexual way. Just simply human contact. I haven't had any physical contact with another human all week. No handshakes. No pats on the back. I can't imagine what it would be like to have 30 days of 100% solitary isolation and then be in the physical presence of someone. It reminded me a bit of the "boy in the bubble" - a true story of a boy who had SCIDS (no immune system). He lived in a sterile plastic bubble and never once had any direct contact with another living being. When he was about 12 y.o., he was offered a high-risk operation, in which he would probably die. He decided to undergo the operation, predominantly because he wanted human contact. He died during the operation. I think the coronavirus situation could be the foundation for a Netflix series. . . .Imagine 100 years from now, isolation is the normal due to advanced development of microbes. All human contact is virtual. Yet some people crave human contact so deeply they sneak out and meet each other, despite the life-threatening consequences or a life in prison if they are caught - yet they don't care because their isolated life is already a form of prison. Young people are willing to take the greatest chances. Some brag about the size of the group they were in. "Yea dude, last weekend we had four people in the same room!!! It's my record. And I got within two feet of someone. It was sooo intense". . .

I predict we will look back on this and. . . smh. To give some credit. . . it's good to see Trump change his tone and listen to public health experts. China's lockdown may have been brutal, yet it was highly effective in containing the epicenter of the virus. They have had zero new cases in recent days and life is returning to normal there. This was after about 35 days of lockdown. Other regions like Hong Kong and South Korea had swift lockdowns and had minor outbreaks. Their public is prepared for this. . .. Yet many Americans resist a lockdown - they either can't stomach it, think it's "just another virus" or it is a "hoax". As a result, the U.S. will endure a much worse impact than China. Much worse. This is going to get a lot worse and last a long time. Panic doesn't do any good. Yet neither does hiding one's head in the sand. I'm taking this seriously and preparing for serious consequences: an upcoming lockdown, a recession and possibly loss of job. Unemployment is going to dramatically rise.

This comes down to a trust issue. You can trust what epidemiologists and public health experts tell us, or you can distrust them. At this time, I am choosing to learn from epidemiologists and public health experts - yet that's just my orientation.

It depends on who "we" is. Epidemiologists and public health experts know what an adequate reaction is. They dedicate their entire careers to knowing what an adequate reaction would be. They have studied this for decades and they are fluent in this language. I think you mentioned that you speak French. I don't speak French. Imagine we are at a cafe and someone in distress approaches us and starts speaking frantically in French. I don't speak French, so I won't know what an adequate reaction is. I have no idea what she is saying. . . Yet, you do. You hand the woman your phone and she makes a call. You then tell me that the woman said she was just robbed and needs to call the police. Without understanding French and what is happening, this would appear to be an "over-reaction". Yet when I understand what is happening, I can see it is an appropriate reaction.

From an epidemiology perspective, the public perception of "over-reaction" means there was an appropriate response because the public underestimates the threat. If one underestimates the threat, appropriate action will be perceived as an "over-reaction". Imagine a cancer patient being told that the cancer will devour her body unless they take aggressive chemotherapy action. After the chemotherapy, the patient recovers and thinks "I feel fine. Those doctors *over-reacted* by giving me chemotherapy". . . In this case, the patient is underestimating the severity of her cancer disease, so she perceives the chemotherapy as an "over-reaction". Another way to look at it: Imagine a patient is told that they have pancreatic cancer that is spreading through their body. Would the patient think "Well, I've only lost 10% of my pancreas and the cancer has only spread to my lungs so far. Yet I can breath ok right now. Isn't treatment an over-reaction?".

From an epidemiology perspective, this is a good sign. If a considerable portion of the public think things have gone to an extreme and it's an absolute joke, it's a good sign that appropriate measures are being taken. The best case scenario is that in a couple months, we will look back and think "we sure did over-react. The coronavirus outbreak wasn't that bad" <= That would mean a huge success. Yet unfortunately, that's not going to happen in the USA - some areas will be sparred - others like NYC will be hit hard. In a couple weeks, the "absolute joke" believers will be as rare as "flat earth" believers.

I think it's a conspiracy theory without merit. However, there will be people that try to take advantage of the pandemic for personal gain (financial, gaining power etc). Yet I'm not seeing much of that right now - just a bit of price-gauging. The vast majority of people are working together - yet I expect many scammers to pop up to take advantage of the situation. For example, bogus diy coronavirus "tests" that are saline solution and some food coloring.

Where is "their time"? London?. It might be helpful to specify the time zone or give times in GMT.

There are legal implications to these restrictions and discussing how to circumvent the forms is outside the purview of the forum.

@Javfly33 This sounds like a great opportunity for personal growth. For example, the question "What is your passion?". We could answer "I don't know" or "I don't care" and call it a day. Or we could get curious. . . "Hmmm, I'm disconnected from my own passions. I wonder what they are. Let me self inquire and explore what my passions might be. I can introspect, contemplate, observe and start a dream board". . . .

If we want, we can create a "physical vs. non-physical" duality relative to consciousness. Let's go for it. . . (Along the way, be mindful of how you define "consciousness" - your definition may need to expand). You have already listed out some "physical" attributes of consciousness. You clearly have that part down and don't need anymore work in that area. It seems like work needs to be done for "non-physical". Could you come up with a few "non-physical" attributes of consciousness? And also come up with some consciousness attributes that are "sorta physical / sorta non-physical". . . I'm not saying that physical attributes are "wrong". It's just that you obviously have that part down very well and don't need any more work in that area.

Beautiful post. A few observations within your framework: The virus is "invisible" which prevents a challenge to standard masculine aggression against a human adversary. The virus cannot be dehumanized, since it is already not human. The virus cannot be "otherized" because it is not another human. One cannot create an inter-personal, inter-racial, or inter-national conflict with the virus itself because the virus has no personality, race or nationality. The virus is invisible to our sight. Yet there still seems to be some "masculine" energy of conflict. The masculine cannot create an "us vs them" conflict with the virus, yet it can create an "us vs it" conflict. We are already seeing this in the U.S. as politicians has now framed this as a "war against the virus". Aspects of this is seen in the drive to develop and promote more testing, so we can "see" and identify the "enemy". As well, there is a massive 24/7 effort in the scientific community to develop a vaccine to destroy the enemy. . . .We could consider nurses and doctors to be soldiers on the front lines of the war. They are putting themselves in harm's way and isolated themselves from friends and family to protect their loved ones. As you wrote about the feminine, there are also energetics of getting in touch with one's feelings and emotions - and developing ways to express those emotions - perhaps through journaling, art or conversations with others. As well, developing greater empathy for others. Last night, I watched a video with clips of Italians speaking to Americans - to tell Americans what is coming next week. The video was filled with empathy and concern. They have the direct experience and produced a video to help Americans prepare and cope. One woman spoke about how people in her community went to their balconies and spontaneously started singing together in unity. Beauty within tragedy. . . Many of us will feel anxiety about the virus. Many of us will experience feelings of boredom and isolation. The energetics of this direct experience can be expressed by lashing out at others as frustration and anger. It can also allow greater understanding of what others are going through. It can allow for reaching out and developing human connections and mutual support.

I think it's a great idea. We can all take "practical" actions and "post-practical" actions with an intention to help. Are you suggesting 9:30am London time? That would be between 2:30am - 5:30am in the U.S. Pretty early.

@Mongu9719 What if enlightenment includes suffering?

This is comparing the coronavirus to an ordinary virus. This would be like comparing a benign tumor to a malignant tumor and saying "They are both cancer". As well, it's not just the yearly death toll. The distribution is important as well. 100,000 thousand cases per month for a yearly total of 1.2 million is much different than 400,00 cases per month for three months - also a yearly total of 1.2 million. The second scenario would overwhelm hospital capacity, which would yield massive societal problems. Already, some cities are designating entire hospitals to covid-19 treatment. This significantly reduces the health care system's capacity to treat the baseline number of illnesses in the community. The coronavirus has traits that make it much much more dangerous than a common flu virus. The elevated concern is warranted. From my pov, most people are underestimating the virus. Looking at current stats is insufficient. It's important to look further down the curve, considering the R0 and exponential growth. If we were in a car traveling at 100kph with an exponential increase of 1.26 per minute, we have a serious problem on our hands. Saying "We are only traveling 110kph right now" is very short-sighted. It's also important to forecast that in a few minutes we will be traveling at over 300kph if we don't take action to slow down now. Educating the public about the severity of an outbreak is one of the hardest things for epidemiologists. The reason death tolls are relatively low at this point are due to draconian anti-spreading measures. If China didn't take massive action to stop the spreading - the virus would have spread through China and caused orders of magnitude more deaths. Public panic during a pandemic is not helpful, yet neither is the attitude "It's just another virus, the common flu causes more deaths". From an epidemiology perspective, the public should understand the danger of this virus, take it seriously and voluntarily take anti-spreading preventions. Due to the R0 of the coronavirus, if we treat it like a common flu virus, we are looking at numbers that will blow away the impact of all common viruses combined. Perhaps 500 million deaths compared to 0.5 million deaths. As well as deaths, there is joblessness, bankruptcies, associated deaths due to hospital strain, etc.

The U.S. is still way behind on testing. We are only at 10,000 tests per day and need to get to 100,000 per day. Based on curves from China, the Europe and the U.S. are looking at another 5-6 weeks until the peak surge - yet with hospitals being overwhelmed, job losses, small business closures and bankruptcies there will be ripple effects. And a vaccine will take about 1.5 years to develop and be readily available.

Antibiotics are useless against viruses.

It depends on ROA. A low does plugged would be about 15mg. A low dose vaped would be about 2mg.

That is my point about relativity. If someone sees weeds as "herbs", then allowing weeds to run their course without restraint is a good idea. If someone sees weeds as threatening to the flowers in the garden, then allowing weeks to run their course without restraint is a bad idea. Similarly: Someone could view the Coronavirus as "bad" or "good". For example, if we allowed the coronavirus to run it's course without restrant, perhaps 1-2 billion people in the world would die. From the perspective of reducing harmful human impact on environment, this would be a good thing.