Hardkill

That's what I've been saying. Cenk claims that he's not a far leftist. He's says that he's a mainstream progressive: While I believe that he's not a Marxist or as far to the left like his nephew Hasan is, I am now not so sure about him being a mainstream progressive.

So, then what’s was the point of having a political awakening about all of the grosteque levels of inequities ever since Trump first rose to power in 2016 if the sobering reality is that nothing more can be done about any of these things for the foreseeable future, especially now that Trump and MAGA will oppress the 90+% of Americans until probably we’ve all passed away?

Still much better than CNN and other mainstream media outlets and infinitely better than Fox News and every other right-wing media outlet.

Very dismaying.....

I hope you're right, but his plans of warping more than half the country's minds is working. It's also not just him. Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post and forced them not to endorse Harris over Trump. Several other billionaires have been buying and corrupting more and more and more mainstream media outlets and big tech outlets like X, Facebook, Meta, etc.

You know, another thing that's very odd about Democrats having lost in 2024 was that they actually did historically well in the 2022 midterms, which was almost unheard of for the party holding the White House. In fact, Democrats won the 2022 midterms overall when inflation, looming recession fears, and interest rates where much worse back then than during the 2024 elections. Some of it probably had to do with Trump being at the top of the ticket, but Democrats still should've done better than they did overall in the 2024 elections, especially with the economy being in so much better than it was in 2022 and so many people were getting sick and tired of Trump. Not to mention all of the special elections the Democrats have kept winning like crazy since 2022. I think a lot of it had to do with even much greater disinformation that occurred from right-wing billionaires such as Elon Musk after 2022. Could it also be that voters in midterm elections and special elections are generally smarter, more informed, and more involved in politics than voters in presidential elections?

I hope you're right and that I am wrong.

Look who's talking...

I am trying to be grounded, but it's not working.

Sorry for being a downer. I am just trying to understand things from a practical/realistic viewpoint. What exactly is wrong with the last point I made?

So, was the progressive movement started by Bernie Sanders in 2016 all for nothing in the end?

I hope there is a backlash against Trump and his party at the national level because of how disastrous the country will eventually be under their watch. However, couldn't the dominance of right-wing propaganda always protect Trump and the Republicans from ever losing the presidency and Congress to Democrats again no matter how horrific of a job they do at running the country? Also, even when Trump is gone what if most voters who are either moderates or conservatives from now just decide to never vote Democrat again and instead always vote for more normal traditional conservatives/Republicans because Democrats and liberals have now become "too progressive" for the country? I mean imagine a scenario where, despite the country being in a dire situation due to Trump and his party's policies, too many voters will refuse to support the Democratic Party. Why? Because the Democrats have become "too progressive" and "socialist" for their taste. As moderates or conservatives, they'd rather not vote at all than support a candidate associated with the liberal establishment, even if it means tolerating the current administration's and the current party's policies.

They've kept shifting more and more and more to the right ever since the election of Reagan in 1980. However, because most Americans are conservatives or moderates and as long as the extremely influential right-wing propaganda machine keeps growing stronger, it's hard for me to see how Trumpism and the Republican party will ever lose power at the national level again for the foreseeable future. I know you've said a number of times before that Trumpism and the Republican Party will eventually collapse, leading the country to desire more liberal policies. But what if too many voters, despite acknowledging Trump and his party's role in the country's terrible crisis sometime in the future, continue to vote Republican due to their conservative or moderate values and perception that Democrats have shifted too far left in this day and age? What if they're like "I'd rather die than vote Democrat ever again, even if it's someone like Gavin Newsom because they are all radical leftists who are even worse at running the country!"?

Such a generation or two of backlash would tear our society apart and would eventually force those in power to give those people's rights back. I don't see how the issue of abortion is going to go away for the foreseeable future. Ever since Roe vs. Wade was overturned those favoring abortion rights skyrocketed to levels never seen before. Hopefully, after Trump and his party ruin this country over the next 4 years, enough people will realize the atrocities they've committed. Only a very very slight majority of Americans voted for Trump and MAGA because the economy just happened to be more of a priority for this election than democracy and abortion were. Plus, don't you think that the right-wing propaganda machine had something to do with tricking too many voters into believing that the state of the whole country was bad under Biden/Harris and the Democrats? Most people really don't want any rights they have to be taken away from them. Look what happened when the Republicans tried to repeal Obamacare during Trump's first 2 years as president. They paid a steep political price for it in both the 2017 off year elections and the 2018 midterms.

Well, what do you think the progressive movement accomplished materially?

So, do you think the progressive movement since 2016 has been all for naught?

Yeah, because you believe too much in the polls. Divisive primaries are irrelevant for the party out of power because they aren't the ones governing. When your party is the one governing, then your party will be much more scrutinized by the media and the public than the party out of power will be. After all, the party in charge is the one who bears responsibility for whatever happens under their watch: Also, why aren't more progressives winning elections than the establishment democrats if people really don't like establishment Democrats?

Wait, I can't believe that if women had the right to vote taken from them, then they would eventually be okay with that. Something like that would be unthinkable in our society and cause even much greater backlash toward the right-wing than the overturning of Roe vs. Wade did. Otherwise, you might as well say that if black people in America were enslaved again, oppressed again, or segregated from white people again they might be upset for a few months, but then the black and brown communities will just accept it as just the way things are done. Actually, despite the fact that the abortion issue wasn't enough to help save Democrats from losing the presidency and Congress this time, that issue will keep hurting conservatives and Republicans in the long-run as long as we still have free and fair elections and the Democrats do a better job of combating the right-wing propaganda machine.

Obviously the rich, the elites, and celebrities are going to be more than fine during Trump's presidency because of how much the environment will massively shift in favor them of more economically but can an everyday person succeed financially and career-wise during the next 4+ years?

Yeah, a lot of Republicans are of course in Trump, but what about the moderate and independent voters who usually decide the election more so than the party base voters? I think your point about left-leaning or Democratic-leaning men who mostly stayed home and didn't vote for Kamala makes sense. Yeah, I really think your point about the right-wing media environment influencing so many young men to vote Trump and Republican really makes sense. I also believe that the dominance of the right-wing propaganda machine caused an unforseen amount of disinformation out there to the point of deceiving about 6 million voters in the country who voted for Biden in 2020 but did not vote for Harris this time.

That's not entirely true. Even Leo has talked about this. Even Obama in one of his interviews has talked about this. Younger generations are more open to liberalism and progressivism whereas older generations tend to stay more comfortable with the more old- fashioned views they grew up with. As Winston Churchill said "‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain."

But a lot of women were still very angry about Roe v Wade being overturned in 2024. In fact, more of them were suffering badly from it then 2 years ago. Also, Trump is the greatest election denying Republican candidate! So, was his running mate JD Vance! Furthermore, Trump is the ultimate anti-generic Republican. He should've turned off even more moderate and Independent voters than any other Republican in the history of the country. Also, it still doesn't explain why Truman got re-elected in 1948 and why Reagan got re-elected in 1984 when they presided over much worse inflation and an even weaker and less stable economy.

but a lot of the people from 50 years ago or even 25 years ago or even 10 to 15 years ago already passed away and have been replaced by the younger generations of people who as a whole are less racist, less xenophobic, and less conservative than older generations are.

Over 25% of the people who voted for Trump said that they hated him and most of the voters who voted for him disapprove of him according to the exit polls. That's never happened before in US History, especially after winning the popular vote. Yeah, I thought that she could pull it off like Obama, especially since she's already been the Vice-President of the United States. Though I guess having a woman of color POTUS is still too much for the country. But that doesn't clearly answer why Democrats did well in the 2022 midterms, particularly as the party holding the White House, especially when the whole economy back then was in much worse shape than it has been in 2024. Also, why did Truman and his party in 1948 and Reagan and his party in 1984 each get re-elected during times when the economy was not as strong as it is now and when inflation during those years was much worse than it is now? None of you guys believe that unprecedented misinformation caused them to lose?

DEI hires? Please don't tell me you're falling that stupid right-wing propaganda narrative, when that is patently false and she never ran on any identity politics at all. Besides, that doesn't compare with how extreme Trump was viewed. In fact, A LOT more voters viewed Trump more than Harris as too extreme. Also, exit polls did show that Harris came off as caring more about the middle class than Trump does.