egoless

@Natasha Did you already attain that state though?

@Shiva Meditation and not eating sugar solely won't take you far. Zen monks need decades and even then some of them never get Enlightenment. If you are serious about Enlightenment that should be your full time job. Otherwise you are just splitting yourself into two and wasting your time. Meditating even 1 hour per day won't get you there because as you said you don't abstain from anything. And right after your meditation practice you go outside and get sucked back into reality content.

Yes and I have had those non-dual moments. Even without shrooms during the meditation.

@Shiva Yes but exploring Enlightenment requires you immense amount of abstaining from everyday life and becoming disciplined practitioner. What if instead it is wiser to continue experiencing life as it was gifted and intended initially. To explore it as your separate self, with perspective on it rather then completely dissolving yourself in nothingness.

However imagine, in that case the mindfuck would be so huge that you will doom yourself for whole your life chasing yet another biggest delusion. That is sort of double mindfuck you are preparing for yourself in that case. First one is when you discovered the Enlightenment path and the second one would be when you finally attain that knowing after living 10 years like zen monk. And then... you discover that that was just another, more deluded illusion. This time your brain chemistry trolled you like a little baby. And than you look at your friends who partied and lived their lives at fullest without caring where and why it goes to. And finally who knows, both of you just reincarnated in another lifetime. 1:0 for your current lifetime.

@Shiva I mean what if "True Enlightenment" itself is yet another deception. Which means that belief so strong that it alters brain chemistry thus making it into a special experience of knowing.

I relate to the first type. I always have been in search for answers. And I always have been depressed because I was not sure whether this life was real or not. Even since my early teens. That;s why Matrix has been always my favorite movie. But that does not mean that this makes Enlightenment the Truth. It can be, however it also can be just another delusion which seems damn so real.

I have had these experiences you are talking about and not a single one. I can sit for an hour with the still mind - close to 0 thought. Why so many of you here assume that you know my current progress? I still question everything and I recommend you to do so. Nobody knows yet what is human brain capable of. There have been numerous miraculous cases when human brain completely altered whole body chemistry. Thus the experience as well...

There is a chance that we are all here deluded including Leo Gura. Why nobody here is considering that there is the chance?! That alerts me very much... we need to be more critical. Leo you need to be more critical towards Enlightenment...

But there is the problem. If you find out yourself you may be trapped into that false realization and think that finally you understand it - Finally! You got Enlightened! And nobody will be able to proove you that it is just another product of shift in your brain chemistry!

So maybe all these Enlightenment stuff is just our mind'sproduct of false liberation? Our mind becomes so deeply depressed that it will do anything to save us. And that's what we call Enlightenment? Isn't that a possibility? Why not???

@Dodo that only strengthens my suspicions. And it should yours as well. When you are in trouble you are more exposed to biases and false realizations which supposadly will bring you liberation. Think about it. You begin to seek liberation so desperately that you may even change your whole brain chemistry with false ideas...

@Shiva realization and belief are not that far away from each other. Have you never experienced the false realization? When you were deeply sure that you knew something then the mindfuck happened?!

Exactly and that's what I'm saying. Most people start this journey to escape their hardships. Which might lead to bias beliefs. And maybe, just maybe Enlightenment is yet another belief and that's it.

@LaucherJunge what do you mean confirmation bias not needed though it means cognitive bias. It just happens. Nobody will do 10000 hours of meditation and self inquiry without initial belief. Think for yourself.

@Shin however you want to admit or not. This path is also very close to religion. First, you need to believe in the possibility that it may be True to start practice. So there is still an element of initial belief here. Then there is a confirmation bias - look it up in the google. That means that people are tend to lookup the information which fortifies their existing beliefs.

Read my comment right before yours... Start questioning everything. You are not sure in anything.

What about self-induced belief possibility

Doing both

I am sage, I am not Enlightened.

Tai Chi is indeed is very close to meditation, however Kung Fu seems more powerful. Anybody experienced in any of these to explain?

@Leo Gura will it be as effective if I just choose one channel for example seeing or inner seeing and do only it for 20 minutes every day? Or should I do all channels interchangeably? Also I don't quite understand what's the reason behind labeling it as seeing, hearing and feeling? And what do you mean by noting.