Buba

Being an atheist and materialist, I found it shocking that the hallucinations are claimed to be real by strong meditation practitioners. Even down-to-Earth Daniel Ingram says a person cannot say those are not real. I have had hallucinations, tactile and auditory, many times. I always considered them as errors in my brain and witnessed a medication stopping them. So they had no powers. They were an illusion. But now sane people claim they are real and I am confused. Yesterday when I was meditating I got again this paranoia that some creature was approaching me behind. This time I did not think it was an error in my brain, I believed it might be real as other people claimed so. I was so scared I could barely meditate. I wanted to stop meditating, but forced myself to go on. What are your opinions on hallucinations or meditation induced hallucinations?

Thank you guys. I guess I will not understand this stuff until I experience it myself. But again in order to function properly it is useful to accept hallucinations as imaginations of the brain. I have read forums, articles and saw that patients who firmly believe that their hallucinations are true, have great difficulties in recovering, while the ones who know these are just hallucinations and not some magick beings, recover more easily.

I know the reality is interpretation of my mind. But there are two versions: 1) Either there is an objective reality, independently existing, beyond my experience. 2) Or all reality is just my imagination, my experience, in which case hallucinations and ordinary life could be same.

There is no difference in terms of my experience, but there is a reality even when I dont exist. Whatever I hallucinate has nothing to do with objective reality.

Why dont you stop hallucinating?

The laws which have always been consistent. It happened to me several times that during sleep I figured out that I was in a dream, because of inconsistencies occurred. But I have never found inconsistency in sober life. I dont know. So if everything is imagination of my brain, then what is my brain? If my family in reality and monsters in my dream are the same then why do bother to try to live a better, healthier life? If you hallucinate a kid drowning in the sea and other people assure you that there is no kid in the sea, will you still dive to save the kid? The notion that creatures once I considered as hallucinations might be real and harm me, scares me and halts my practice. Why do sane people say those monsters are real? I used to think so, but now I am confused.

Ego also seems very real, feeling of incompleteness also seems very real. If there was another realm to which people with mental illnesses or drugged states had access to, then people would have the same hallucinations. 2 drugged friends in the same place at the same time dont see the same hallucinations. I have had hallucinations and I know how real they seem. I also have Borderline Personality Disorder and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and their symptoms also seem very very real. The person who washes his hands for hours and cannot stop despite hands bleeding, also feels the urge very very real.

What are vibrations? Sensation - for example touching sensation. I touch something and focus on this sensation, but I dont see it arising and passing and I dont feel any vibrations. How do you feel or see vibrations?

Read it before you decide to do that

Thank you.

Could anybody heal their trauma, mental illness, depression, obsessions and etc with meditation, being in the now? I dont see the light in the end. My mental obsessions are so deeply rooted, I dont think it is possible to uproot them. They are just there forever. People have told me here many times to visit psychotherapists and I assure you I have visited 5 of them during last 6 years and no little change occurred. Medications, talks... 0 effect. Meditation was my last hope. It also did not uproot them. 2 years (with a break) meditation 20 minutes per day, being in the now whenever I remember, surrendering to pain and etc. Obsessions are still there. Who has got rid of them?

This is devastating, painful, and never lets a person do anything.

Thank you guys a lot. I know I have been fucking people's brain with endless questions here for more than one year. The only method I know for healing is meditation. And in daily life I try to be mindful, be in the now. I have noticed change in my awareness, sometimes in mood as well, but that binary suffering, which was not there until April 2006, is always there. I dont know what is my diagnosis, to know what to do to heal. I will watch the videos and read books recommended, I dont know how to heal inner child, any techniques are appreciated.

Did it shut up finally? ))

Thank you for the recommendation. When I want to start to do something I sabotage myself mainly by saying "it is too late, the train has gone". My worst fears are: not live my life fully, not to use my full potential, to miss the life and etc. Also I am scared of getting embarrassed, be seen as a weak person. Also I am scared of my parents. I mean, I care them so much. I feel how it limits me.

I go to work. Come home. Meditate for 20 minutes. Waste time with my friends. I want for example to go to dancing course. My mind tells me "you are too old, it is too late, you are 32, you must have gone to dancing courses when you were very young. Now you will not be a good dancer. You will be average." It demotivates me. My mind tells me "you have wasted the best time of your life, now you are getting old, you are getting down, it is too late". I am like a man who did not have toys when he was a child and now although he is a grown up man, he feels incomplete and wants to play with toys, to compensate his incomplete childhood.

Did you read my story? Some doctors say I dont have OCD. Its theme is so weird and original. What was your OCD theme? I gave up trying to change and accepted OCD fully for some temporary time, but then I returned to trying. You are so right that when I give up and surrender OCD alleviates, but never ever disappears. May be I dont surrender completely and leave little hope in the deep. As if I am holding something and afraid to drop it and I just bring it closer to the floor and pretend that I dropped it. Thank you. I want success, to be liked, to be fit, self-confident and etc. Just the things many people want.

I wrote my weird story above

Something does not let me rest, forces me to become a person of my (not conscious) imagination.

This is awesome. Wish you happiness.

I have the same feelings almost every second, and until that day (April 2006) I did not have these feelings. It is binary, it is there now, it was not there until April 2006. I started spiritual path to get rid of them, they never lessen they can be there or not. Could you please provide me with a link of a good shadow work? I try to love myself, to accept myself fully, but I cannot. Thank you, isabel. I will follow her. Is she mainly speaking about law of attraction? Did you read my story above? It is such a weird case Should I read afterwards what I wrote? I am blaming other people, myself, life, everything. So am I inflicting pain on myself on purpose? Or did you mean the torture part of my story?

And how are you now?

Thank you, people. When I opened this topic I hoped people would comment based on their own story.

It is so long and embarrassing (extremely childish), but I will try to convey the actual situation. When I was a child I had "just not right" obsession. If I was doing something, like touching, it had to feel right. If it did not feel right, I would repeat it over and over until it felt right or until I got so exhausted that I gave up and surrendered to that nasty feeling. After some time that nasty feeling always disappeared. I was the best pupil not just of the class, but of the whole school. However when I became a teenager I started to compare my life to other guys' life. They were brave, good in fighting and had girlfriends, I was a loser. I decided to change myself. I lost interest in subjects, forced myself to fight back and tried to date. Got very trivial successes. But moved up from zero a little bit. Although I had these problems, in the background I had trust in existence and I cannot say I was suffering. The momentary mental pains were fading quickly and subtle contentment was always in the background (becoming atheist when I was 12 shattered that contentment significantly, but still there was subtle contentment in the background). When I was 12, I contemplated a lot (I guess hours per day for several days) about Allah, Islam, life, me and etc. I used logic intensively to do this research, I dont know why. I just thought a lot, what was all of this phenomena. And reached to the bottom and bammmmm.... I was shocked by the realization that there was no Allah and I dont know who I am, what is life. My mind gave error. It could not give answers. I experienced intense fear and depersonalization/derealization. I looked at my parents, but did not feel any emotional bond. I begged Allah to save me from this uncertainty although deep down I stopped believing him. I mimicked. I forced myself to believe. Denial, denial, denial of truth. "No, there is Allah, just may be Satan led me astray." I started to read religious books, but was deeply frustrated as the bullshit in them was very obvious. So my new obsession started. I was constantly asking reassurance if there was Allah and what was the prove. And their answers might calm me down for some moment, until the next episode when I needed reassurance. In my adolescence I was doing push ups, pull ups and etc and I was lucky to have a body quickly responding to sport, so I had a good body. Also I went back to studying to get admitted to a university. So sport and studying kept me busy and to some degree away from this obsession, although occasionally I was having existential crisis. I got very high score in entrance exam (to university) - 96%. Also several months before entrance exam doctors found extra bones in my left leg and said I needed a surgery to remove them otherwise I should stop doing sport. My father said surgery is a bad idea, better to stop doing sport. So after entrance exam I was in a deep emptiness. No sport and no study, because I lost interest in studying. I also gave up forcing myself to believe Allah and became full atheist. And inside this emptiness, I imagined a "me", who is too brave, even not afraid of eternal torture. This was my sense of self. It was very important for me. Everything had no value, except courage. So whenever this self was threatened I would imagine myself to experience certain torture or something similar to details and would repeat it until I got sure that yeah I would handle that torture and would not get scared. I already started to live a zombie life, whole time in my mind, neglecting my health, education, social life, never dated a girl and did not consider it important at all. But the worse was ahead. So at this time I still had subtle contentment in the background. I was happy. I had no expectation from the life, only to be brave, even the bravest on the Earth. I even found it ridiculous to fear Allah even if he was real, because why to fear eternal hell? In 2006 in April I had an argument with a random guy, in which I was completely right (he put his foot on the chair, where me and my classmates sit). And he was very aggressive towards me and I felt fear, but denied to myself, I only said bad words back to him which he said to me, like a boy who wants to act tough, but actually is shitting his pants. He slapped me, I wanted to jump on him in a pure reflex, his classmates broke us up. Then I wanted to take revenge. I was in complete denial that I was afraid of him and for several days I was in complete stress, anxiety and etc, because I was going to see him again to slap him like he did to me. These several days were hell. I could not sleep, eat, and all day long was thinking about it. The day came, I approached him and felt fear again. He destroyed me mentally with words. I was humiliated very badly. Then after that I decided to see him again, because some mistake happened, I am brave and I will take revenge. But after several days in this state (again anxiety, depression, stress and etc), fear overcame and I did not approach him again. I decided to take it easy and whaaat whaaat is it....???? I CANT. I cant forget it, I cant relax, I feel like I have a mission and it is to slap him. This was crazy. I had had obsessions before it, but they all faded. This did not. I felt like even if I died I would take this incompleteness, not-rightness with me. I felt like I would not be happy even in heaven. It was like a hole inside me. If everybody died, I would still think about slapping him. It was a real torture. I was inside of a cruel conflict. I was afraid of slapping him and I was afraid of staying in this incomplete state. Several months passed like this. Anxiety, depression, insomnia, nasty feelings. Finally it passed, but only the theme passed. The "I should slap him" theme. The void, incompleteness, depression and feeling like "I have to do something to get value" stayed. In 2007 in October I decided to give up depression and try to be happy, but my mind said, ok first you should torture yourself a little bit, in order to have something, may be some meaning, then start your mundane happy life. And the endless "journey" started. I could not torture myself seriously, but for example burnt my hand slightly touching a glass filled with boiling water or cutting my skin to bring blood out. My mind also said stab yourself deeply just once and torture will be over. You will prove you are very brave and did something very extraordinary which other people cannot do. Or punch the wall with your full power to break your fingers, this would be real deal, and the torture would be over. It would be a very meaningful end. Of course I could not these extreme things. Then my mind would come with a less extreme things, it was like bargaining with me. For example, fight with two people, not younger than you and etc. I really assaulted innocent people, of course always picked weaker than me people. Finally in December of 2008 I thought my mind stopped commanding these things, I did meaningful finish (I remember as a finish I clapped several times of amount my mind said). Of course I did not know it was mind, I thought it was my desire, purpose of my life. But I was sometimes suspecting it could be a mental disorder. So in 2009 I did some minor torture rituals my mind asked me again, because it said yeah the story ended, you did a good job, but just after story there should be something, so the story should not be the last thing. Just something is needed to completely seal this story. But I still felt incomplete and suddenly I thought heyyy I am 22 and I have never kissed a girl. I will kiss a girl in this week and seal this story. But it turned out getting a girl was not easy, at least for me. I kissed a girl only after 2 years and had sex with her. But my mind said hey you have wasted so much time, you have to sleep with a lot of girls to compensate previous years. And I thought a number. 35. I have to sleep with 35 hot girls in one year (I was going to study in England and thought in a more liberal country it should be easier) and the torture will be over. Of course I did not sleep with 35 girls in one year (only 3). And I was remembering times when certain girls were into me, but I failed to finish it with a score and regretting so much. I was so close the torture to be over, because my mind would bargain with me, not 35, ok, 4 hot girls, or 2 hot girls. So this obsession with girls still lasts and last year obsession of bravery also came back. Now my mind assures me that "I swear just fight with 2 very strong boys and have sex with 2 very hot girls, the torture will be over and you will be able to go back to your mundane life, love, marry, have kids, be happy".