lens

@Buba Trying to do something is the problem, you think there is "something" that needs to be done like a mechanism or tecnique. It's normal, you are realizing the futility of everthing, don't run away from it, you have to accept it, once you've trully accepted it it won't mean anything anymore, not even nihilism, it's freeing. "I will live my average life. Am I coward? Yes. But I dont think I can handle all of this" If it works there's literally no problem with it, but knowing how this usually goes chances are you'll be right back where you started. If you cant do self inquiry while you work then i suggest you work a lot and try to do it whenever you get the free time like holidays or vacations. If you get scared during self inquiry that means you are doing something "right", you need to confront your fears if you don't want to live with them hunting you anymore, whatever you try to run away from will always be twice as fast as you

@Mighty Mouse I think you are the only person on this forum that i've seen from a distance that I couldn't disagree with, no matter how "offended" I got. Maya is going to continue doing her thing, there really is no point to try to help anyone here, but please do because she loves it "You are tonight's entertainment and you are friggin' hilarious, precisely because you're the butt of a grand joke that you're not in on. You are the unwitting mask, the sock puppet on god/maya's hand."

@Mighty Mouse you're not really attacking anyone but i don't think that's what people are going to see with so much "boldness", they are going to get offended because there is nothing they can do about it. Are you trying to help them or just blowing off some steam at this point?

@Thanatos13 This character is enlightened

@Thanatos13 Positivity? Did you read my post? There isn't anything positive about any of this, there is also nothing negative, care to re-read it? I'm saying for someone who thinks they figure it all out to be in a "state of despair" just shows who is running the show

@Thanatos13 It's a farse! It's a lie! It's nothingness! it's pointless, meaningless, and futille! All of this is lie, the love and hate you have for others is a farse, your memories hold no water, your friends aren't real, it is pure emptiness with nothing to truly justify it. Even your despair is a lie, how can you not see that, you are playing a character who thinks he has gotten there and is seeing the horror, the twist is there is no character and there is nothing to see here! If I got a penny for each time Irony was present in this forum I could buy Leo a wig and mildly convince him to wear it Look, i'm not defending psycs, but what makes you think your experience is any more real than the drugs? Sure, it feels like despair, but by your own logic...do I even need to finish?

@Nahm +1

@Buba Don't ask me that question, ask yourself that. You have to do the work first, question it from within not from others, all of your problems are internal not external Incentives that are beyond our control, be it fear, love, desires, we don't control that. You don't have to do anything, live the life you want and have fun

they are wrong Enlightment doesn't mean to enjoy suffering, it means understanding it for what it trully is. No enlightened person can have their pinky toes stubbed in the wall and not scream at least 5 profanities. Pain is an ilussion to make you believe there is an "I" that needs surviving. Also it feels like you were trying to cheat the system, don't surrender expecting "IT" to appear, that is not that works. In surrendering you are not meant to achieve eternal hapiness or to be indestructible, it means you are able to understand it and see it for what it truly is, once you know that there's nothing to worry about it takes care of itself, but it takes a lot of time and practice. And no, you don't need to live with them forever. Thinking got you into this, thinking will not get you out. The more you think about a "solution" you are creating another stories which in 5 seconds will warrant another problem to fix, that's the minds job. Also never understimate the effect of small changes, no matter how minimal, they can make a huge difference later on. You are not the mind you can't be, it does everything by itself without anyone to tell it what to do, heck it doesn't even know what is doing. Fear is an illusion to trick it into thinking it is something that is not, this "I" this is so worried. You don't know your next thought, you don't know how you are going to react to it, you don't know how you can understand what you understand, because that's not you. Not sure if you will learn from this but i feel like it can help, the key is to trully understanding what he means https://gatelessgate.wordpress.com/2006/08/01/the-worst-desire-is-the-desire-for-enlightenment/ Stop telling yourself these stories of what is the truth behind this this and that, it will only distract you even more. Enlightment is nothing, that's what it trully is, nothing at all. You need to fully understand that. It's not a bliss state, it's the truth of your experience, it's not different from what you are experiecing. If you have to ask "Is this it?" It's not it, it's nothing

that's all

@StrangerWatch Here comes that scale oh shit wadup. Have you actually been in an animals body to tell if that's true? Do you think some little waves in a computer equate to pain? how could you ever be 100% sure that its level of pain are not different from ours? How could we ever be sure that its wave equate to anything meaningful? Everyone Suffers differently, that's why it is subjective, what makes me suffer won't make you suffer and vice-versa, how much of it we can take it is also subjective and we can't control it how much, and it's going to vary for everyone, waves are at best an estimate of what is supposed to be there, not a bullseye . And yeah, they don't suffer like we do, we just like to, in order of least to worst,: .Domesticate Them For The Sake Of Our Amusement, Separting Themselves From Their Families Whom They Will Never See Again .Throw Them Out Of Their Habitat Because Of Our Advance/ Amusement .Pollute Their Habitat With Our Trash Because We Just Got To Have OUR AMUSEMENT .Kill Them When WE Are Hungry .Kill Them When There Are Too Many (7 Billion people) .Kill Them When It Annoys US .Boil Them Alive/Chop Them To Bits For US To Eat Slightly Better .Rip Their Balls Off So that WE Don't Have To Get Annoyed .Peform Crazy Experiments For The Sake Of OUR SURVIVAL and the worse without a doubt .Record Them And Upload Cute Videos To Youtube is that not enough suffering to you? Again you are still thinking of this "You", you are not actually thinking of any one else, you're afraid of being the other one who is going to bite that dust, you can't deny what is, you need to understand it, not to cherry pick it and determine what's "good" and what is not

@Nahm I know, i'm using symbols to explain that symbols aren't real...wait what?

@StrangerWatch It's kind of you like this, do you OWN the morals? Think about this for a second, your whole "supposed" life you have been taught what is right and what is wrong, what you should and what you shouldn't do, did you choose to allign over any of the sides? No. Either something makes sense to you, or it doesn't, but notice that whatever comes to be right or wrong in the end it's not up to you. You don't get to decide what is going to have an affect "you" "ashalahamim nokoruga dejabu" search this on google and you will see what i mean how can any of this be yours if it is not yours to control? As of this moment your brain is translating every word without "you" anywhere, you are mistaken the ego for yourself, none of the opnions you have are actually yours, really think about that, you don't have any knowledge of anything in this world, nobody does. we don't choose what to put in our heads and what not to, this is all processed by the brain, something you are not. M8, fine, morality is objective, end of debate, congratulations you are winner. Dude There is no point in debating this with us because you can change the views of everyone in the world but your problems and worries are still going to be there, again, this is not about us, it's about YOU. Not external, Internal. Go do the work and don't stop until it literally kills you

@LastThursday it is lack of practice, if you want to see through it you will have to face it, whenever you feel "stinged" be aware for any attempts from deviating from the fact and go deep into it. To quote Big Bill Hell's "DON'T WAIT, DON'T DELAY, DON'T FUCK WITH US OR WE'LL RIP YOUR NUTS OFF!" @Mighty Mouse What would you say stops growth from becoming the truth? Would it be an illusion of being the observer of the ego or just no full seeing it?

@LastThursday the only way out is through it. The more fear you have, and the more you try to find ways around it, the more the problem will persist. You have to embrace it, even if it feels like you are going to die from it. (that's the point) I'm seeing a lot of "I" and "my" here, try not get attached to "I need" because in truth you don't need to do anything, but realizing it truthfully will be stressfull. Are you struggling with the concept of no control?

@LastThursday Have you questioned why you suffer or what this thing you call an "I" is? How deep into it have you gotten?

No we don't agree, you believe in a scale of importance, I don't. Who is this "I" that condemns the suffering of others? Could be that this "I" is what is giving you worry? I will repeat, you are not witnessing other people suffering, you are witnessing "I" witness itself suffering from the assumption of suffering from others(itself!), go deep into it, arguing with us won't get you unstuck, go do the work Good, you shouldn't love stuff unconditionally, truth is not about love, it's about truth. Being "enlightened" doesn't mean to smile at rape or murder. Are you willing to give up frowning from it to achieve it though?

You don't see the irony in your own argument? By your logic, don't you think the universe probaly thinks something similiar to us? Who knows, maybe that's why people go through horrible shit, in the eyes of the universe we are nothing but little bugs whose worth is not really that worthy, but again, you only get upset when it affects YOU, not others, what you call a "friend, family, another" is what YOU think of them, that's why you get hurt. To claim to want the well being of everything and then to say "nah, man" just shows that your ego is clinging to a belief it claims to be a fact. You said you were looking for truth right? Then come heaven or hell it's up to you to face the facts, not to deny it. Keep questioning.

@StrangerWatch Does that also go for all the animals we nurture and kill in order to eat? Or of their natural habitat that we are slowly destroying in order to advance ourselves? Are you sure you are not just sticking around to humanity, and more especificaly, you here? You can say you want the well being of others but that's because seeing them suffer hurts you, if you didn't feel affected you wouldn't give a crap and i'm sorry that's hipocritical, have you never stepped on a bug or hurt it and didn't bother to finish it off? Imagine how painful that must be, but it was annoying you right? Truth is a humans life is equal to every single creature, make it meaningfull or not. In the end everything in this life is concerning you, it's internal not external. Don't deny the reality you are in, face it.

The ego will want to live no matter what, it will rather suffer from the suffering of others than to let itself die. Keep doing the work and find the answers for yourself And it doesn't, have you realized that yet?

gotcha, same here. The ego is vulnerable, complete vulnerable, that's what i meant to say. It has no other choice other than to allow what happens happen, be it good or bad. He hates that fact because he realizes he has 0 control, and without control it can start to see the illusion for what it is. So here's the thing, i used to think enlightenment was this happy state where the world became perfect because love is in everything, it's not, there is no such thing as enlightment, there's no one typing this, all of these words are happening by themselve because the illusion is perfect. "enlightenment" is the truth about your experience, anyone else trying to sell it as a magical state is trying to escape something. Try to be as aware as possible of your experience, notice that you don't know what's the next words coming out of your mouth, or mind, or even what your hands are going to do, you don't know what's going to happen next. And yes you can live without beliefs, as in, you can know about them but not waste your life energy trying to either test them or constantly think about them. There are somethings that are commo-sense which can help us navigate through this illusion, for example, gravity is a theory, there is no enlightened mofo that is convincing me from jumping off a building. Or for example, don't swallow glass. The world is a lie, but we have no other choice but to follow its rules, why do you think that scares the ego? you can't, that's the point, you will try and try you won't be able to find an entity, because there is no one there. Try the method of spiritual autolysis, warning, it will sting a bit https://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/practical_experiments/spiritual_autolysis.htm When i was depressed medicine helped, however when i had only fear to work with the medicine only made me worse. If you are too depressed and you feel like you cannot cope with give them a try and see if it works, if your head gets into a better stage use this to your advantage and do the work, worse case scenario you switch medicines. that's the thing, happiness is real but it is not a spiritual thing, i don't even know what that's supposed to mean, is it like something sacred? You can enjoy an emotion but try not to get attached to it, don't over glorify it, because the ego will easily get upset when it doesn't see the world the way it wants to see it. Hapiness, like sadness, occurs when an invent triggers something in our brains, that doesn't mean we don't feel what we feel, it also doesn't mean this is the blessing of the goddess themselves which cannot be deconstructed in some way or another, of course it can, if you can deconstruct the "I" that feels it why can't you deconstruct the world it lives in? Because of fear, the more you refuse to acknowledge the truth the more you have to work for it, but people don't want to accept it, so they get stuck for years. And sure, that could work, why would that be a problem? If everything is a chemical reaction why should you care for what is real? Your mother is a chemical reaction, your suffering is a chemical reaction, your identity is a chemical reaction, what does that tell you? There is no such thing as enlightment, there is no such a thing as a self. You aren't the brain, remenber there are rules that need to be followed, it's what keeps this illusion so strong. I think leo would say something like "there is such a medicine, have you tried pyschidelics" but knowing what OCD can do, I recommend you don't go for it, your mind might see something scary and get you even more stuck.

@Mighty Mouse HOLY SHIT IT'S WORKING! @iluminado Good post but try to not get too angry at the supposed b.s you will see in this forum, that's just maya being maya

You are too caught up in too many stories, on the link you said "Just please don’t give me advice – that I should let go, just surrender trust your intuition because I’m completely exhausted surrendering and doing what my “intuition” told me to do" I can't even imagine what you must feel, and I know it's not going to be easy for you, but surrendering doesn't mean going out there and doing it x z or y, surrendering means full acceptance of how you are feeling, if you feel fear let yourself feel it, if you feel brave let yourself feel it. Believing in stories about what it can mean just creates a distraction of what they can actually mean. I'm not a pyschological professional but if I were to to give you "advice" is to sit down, breath, and trace everything back. All your memories, all your suffering, they are memories that you assume have this immense power over you, they don't. Thoughts will always mislead you, the key is not to identify yourself with them. you will need to go deeper, and that means having to face your fears, don't fear the emptiness. Deconstruct yourself, actually go out of your way to understand what is happening to you, your thoughts come and go and they should not control you. Imagine an animal that scares you, now imagine it moving through your body, you might feel discomfort but there is nothing there, and yet your mind likes to believe there is a reason to worry. You need to become aware of your thoughts as what they are, thoughts. You can still live a normal life, what is important is to keep mindful about it. Are you taking any sort of medicament for your ocd on a daily basis?

there is no point to anything, i'd just eat cause i wanna see what happens next

@Buba Don't deny the fear when it feels like it will kill you, wanting relief is a way of denying what the emotion means, it's a temporary distraction from the truth. It's the biggest shock to the ego is complete and total vunerability, and yes it's horrible but hang in there, you need to embrace it, even if this kills you you need to accept the emotion, running away only makes matters worse try not to set dates to when, you don't control the mind, by trying to control it this happens: you:okay, don't think about x till this date mind:don't think about what till that date? OH YOU MEAN X, YEAH X, YOU MEAN X, YEAH, I WON'T THINK ABOUT X, DON'T WORRY, X WILL NOT COME. in trying to avoid you are remenbering yourself of it. And yeah, most of my life i could not enjoy going outside with people because in the back of my mind i'd be constantly thinking about life, "for fuck's sake i'm eating mcdonalds, who cares where i go after I die?", when I had the ego i thought those questions mattered, but truth is they don't, nor do they have any significance. deconstruct the fuck out of your beliefs and see if they hold any water Okay, so here's the thing that i realized, there is no why, there is no reason, any explination you try to come up with serves as an artificial meaning. because essentialy anything that needs "doing" serves no true purpose other than to have a purpose of something needing to be "done" and becomes meaningless. What is the purpose of a hammer? to hammer things, why hammer things? to make things, why make things? to make things do stuff, why do that? because it can make ours lives better, why make our lives better? to make our lives better, but why do we need to? why can't we just end it all? there is no point, there is no "mission", it's like a movie, the characters in it think they need what they need, but that's only so the movie can have a plot. to say it has no meaning it's not something to be scared of, it's truth! you can do whatever in here, you don't need a purpose to kill people in GTA or to fall in love, you are here for the experience, and yes it's meanigless in the grand scheme of things, but you need to accept it, it's freeing, you can decide what to live for, that's your meaning! if life had a meaning it would be meaningless. the truth of all truths ins't why is there a universe, it's why you are in it, find out what this "I" that is in it is and you will see everything for what it is and no questions will bother you anymore