Emerald

Yes, it’s definitely not something that can be put on from the outside. Masculinity is real. But it has nothing to do with these Fetishized notions of the Masculine and Feminine.

No, it says the IDEA of Masculinity is constructed in relation to a Fetishized and unrealistic ideal of Femininity. And so it creates an illusion in many men that women are responsible for the man’s Masculinity. Thus, when a man feels like he isn’t measuring up to the IDEA of Masculinity, he blames women for deviating from the Fetishized unrealistic IDEA of the Feminine.

Yep. They have to take responsibility for their own insecurities without scapegoating and blaming women for their own issues. The call is coming from inside the house. It’s always so weird when guys on here want women to take responsibility for their insecurities. And are like… women need to change. It’s always so random to have these things projected onto you because.

Yes definitely. And what’s funny is that the male victim narrative runs completely counter to the Masculine ideals that they claim to want to embody.

Do you really think that I’m posting a video that ACTUALLY blames women for the masculinity crisis? You should know by now by my posts that I’m an uber SJW Feminist wokescold. ? It’s a video about how men get convinced by online influencers that women are to blame for the ‘masculinity crisis’ by not fitting into a fetishized ideal of Femininity that’s supposed to validate that fetishized ideal of Masculinity. And you find a lot of those same male victimhood narratives that state ‘women are destroying masculinity’ being regurgitated on here by some of the posters. So I thought this could be a good video to reduce victim’s mentality and the scapegoating of women in some of the posters here.

I am a relatively introverted person who prefers my partners to be relatively introverted as well. But if a man is a total lone wolf then this is a bit of a red flag as well. I usually think of lone wolf guys as lacking in social acuity or having issues with avoidance. So, I don’t have any romanticization of the lone wolf. It’s not the type of guy I want in my life because he doesn’t seem like he’s got it together because he doesn’t have a social support system and he’s not community oriented. But in terms of mindset, typically guys who are into pick up are either nerdy guys who have very little experience with women who are trying to get experience with women. OR they are avoidant players who are always trying to add to their body count. And I’m not interested in men from either of those groups because I prefer men with an equivalent level of relationship experience to my own. And I’m definitely not keen on being a part of some random guy’s rotation. Neither of those are interesting to me.

Yeah, it’s pretty annoying in day-game situations.

If a guy randomly spots a girl he’s interested in at a relatively social event and sparks up a regular conversation, it’s one thing. But if he has a practice of doing pick up all the time, everywhere he goes, then it suggests totally different things about where he is in his mindset and his life. And that’s a bit of a red flag. But I’m not saying I should be special in the pick up guy’s eyes. That’s to look at things through a pick up frame. Of course a pick up guy is playing a numbers game and won’t view any particular target as special… in the same way that a perfume salesperson at the mall won’t be viewing any particular target as special. It’s just the nature of marketing. But my point is that I don’t enjoy being marketed to. It’s spammy, low quality, low investment attention. So, if I’m not at least somewhat compelling to him as a particular woman, it’s boring to me. And it’s also a much more dangerous way to meet men because you haven’t witnessed him in different social contexts over time. And even more dangerous than the average man with PUAs because many of them have been indoctrinated into misogynistic viewpoints by various influencers. The best way to meet men is to develop a robust and broad social circle of about 150 like-minded guys and girls who are at various levels of friendship and acquaintanceship. And you do this through congregation in places of interest like art walks, book clubs, yoga class, etc. And this gives you the opportunity to get to know who a guy is and to develop feelings for him organically. And as long as a woman has this, I don’t see why a woman would ever go for some pick up guy.

I wouldn’t do that. I’d still be nice if I’ve decided to talk to him… but I’d be more sardonic and cheeky with some slight eye rolling. That is, if I felt he was a relatively safe guy. But she might have given you the lovey dovey look until she confirmed that you are a pick-up guy. From a woman’s perspective, it’s a bit of a red flag if a guy is into day game pick-up as a regular practice. It takes the fun out of it because you know the guy is doing this like 20x per day. It’s a bit like getting a letter in the mail with a handwritten address, and you’re like “Ooh! Someone wrote ME a letter.” And then you open it and realize that it’s junk mail advertisement. You were intrigued before. But then it takes the personal element out of it because you realize that you’re just part of a numbers game.

Why assume before you watch? But yes… I posted it because I agree with many points in the video.

You’re so wrapped up in ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality that you put the onus of blame more on the victim than on the perpetrator. When a person pendulum swings themselves into ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality a person becomes cold and callous to the suffering of themselves and others. And it’s a very self-hating mentality because they will often downplay their suffering and keep their pain to themselves. And they can judge themselves harshly and feel shame for exhibiting any sign of weakness. And it makes them quite fragile for this reason. Also, I used to dress quite a bit like Manson and express dark themes in my art. And it was ignorant when people assumed that type of thing about me. And Alice Cooper never had this kind of track record despite being the OG shock rocker. And I’ve known plenty of gothy folks. And most of them are kinder than the average person. So, it wasn’t ignorant of them to assume that Manson wasn’t a threat to them. That’s just a basic assumption if you realize that someone’s attire doesn’t determine their character. But Manson probably learned that he could portray his wolf in wolves’ clothing as being a sheep in wolves’ clothing. And this could disarm a lot of people into believing or wanting to believe that his stage persona is only a stage persona.

This just sounds like a way to victim blame… spiritual bypassing style.

You’re coming off a bit judgmental in your post. Do you think you’re better than other people because you choose to forego using models to talk about things? Spiral dynamics is just another model to use to communicate about things…. just like MBTI is… just like Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is… just like OCEAN is. And models are very effective for understanding and communication because they provide clarity about complex phenomena by delineating categories with firm definitions. That’s why they are constructed in the first place… to make complex phenomena comprehensible to the human intellect. So don’t be too surprised when a lot of people on this forum use SD as a framework to communicate the ideas that they’re trying to get across. And you seem to be quite offended by my take on Manson. And I’m honestly not sure why. I still enjoy a lot of his music. And it was an important facet of my life precisely because of his Red romanticization. But after a few years, I could recognize him as someone who got way too wrapped up in his stage persona.

Shame is the root of why you feel bad after being rejected. Once you decouple rejection from the notion that it reflects some kind of inherent shamefulness in you, then rejection gets easier even though it’s still not fun.

What do you think the experience of being with a truly submissive woman is like in the context of a relationship? I can see how that would be fun in the bedroom and in playful romantic dynamics. But living inside that dynamic doesn’t sound appealing from either side. As a woman, it honestly sounds pretty boring at best and frustrating/powerless at worst. I have found that most men who talk a great deal about wanting their partners to be submissive to them tend to feel inadequate in their own masculinity. And they tend to see having an attractive submissive girlfriend mostly as a form of status to prove their worth among other guys to redeem themselves of this perceived masculine inadequacy. And because of this feeling of inadequacy, they will want to make a woman lesser only so he can be greater by contrast. This helps him feel more secure. This is in contrast to a man who develops himself into the best person he can be, who naturally attracts a woman who is his equal that complements his deeper version of masculinity with her deeper version of femininity.

I used to be a huge Manson fan when I was in my early high school years. And when I first got acquainted with him at age 14, I saw him as someone who was more awake than most… an enlightened intellectual in miscreant’s attire. And I loved the ironic juxtaposition of those two qualities. He was certainly a lot more aware than his Satanic Panic critics or his bewildered interviewers. But that illusion of his “wokeness” faded over the years when I realized there wasn’t actually a lot of there, there. He’s not really that deep, in actuality. My take on Manson is that he is mostly Stage Orange with a smattering of Green And he has a huge Blue Shadow! And he romanticizes Red in his music. This is what initially drew me toward him. I had some Stage Red deficits from childhood. And I used my teen years to compensate for this deficit through various acts of rebellion, iconoclasm, and mild unlawfulness. So, the romanticization of Red with little hints of Green peppered in was very attractive to me at the time. And he creates this Red/Green concoction while criticizing Blue very heavily and criticizing Capitalist Orange every now and again. But unfortunately because he romanticizes Stage Red as a part of his art and persona… this has led him into some very predatory behaviors. He is definitely an example of someone who got lost in his persona. So he’s a Stage Orange guy who seeks to position himself as wiser and more intellectual that the Stage Blue sheeple… with a Stage Red appearance/performance and Orange/Green intellectual accoutrements.

I would totally say something direct/funny like this to a guy who was doing pick up on me without being interested in him. It probably is just because women who know about pick-up know that it’s a numbers game and that you probably are just getting your quota in. Smart women will probably avoid going out with day-gamers on principle. It’s a bit of a red flag when you can tell that a guy is involved in pick up and he approaches you in a grocery store.

Theft is a good angle to view it though. In terms of equality, I view it like this… 5 uneven fingers form a hand… but if your thumb is two miles long and your pointer is an inch long, there is a problem there that needs to be addressed. But equally important to the cause of fairness is getting rid of factors that weaken the collective of humanity. And that can be tricky because you want enough challenge to foster resiliency in the populace… and enough slack to make sure that people (especially children) aren’t being traumatized and beaten down by poor conditions to the point where they become adults that pass on their hurts to others. Poverty weakens the collective in so many ways. So I think it is best to guarantee the basics. But the question that stands in my mind is… Can we craft a societal system that works ergonomically to optimize the strength, resilience, health, and wisdom of the collective?

My biggest and most difficult to swallow self-development insight is that my interest in self-development originated from shame and a desire to fix myself. And I was doing this to make myself acceptable enough to earn my own love. I notice this pattern in a lot of personal development and self-help junkies. And so, it’s very important to make self-love unconditional… and to not be something that we have to fix ourselves to earn. Then, self-development just becomes fun and exciting… and we can do it for the enjoyability of the process.

Certainly there are women who exist who want to take advantage. And men who act servant-like will attract women who want to take advantage. But usually friendzone means when a guy is attracted to a woman but dishonestly positions himself as a friend in order to try to make the woman like him by being super friendly. And he does this without any actual interest in being friends. And because attraction doesn’t work that way, he feels side-lined and taken advantage of when she isn’t attracted to him… because he was thinking doing things for her would lead to her being attracted to him, when it really just made her feel like she has a good friend. And then she feels upset because she thought she had a genuine friend when he was really just pretending to be her friend to fulfill his own agenda. This is usually what’s happening when a guy complains about friend-zoning. So, I come to this with a degree of skepticism at the lines about women knowing they’re doing this. I remember when my middle school best guy friend (who I was very close with)… he asked me out when we were 13 or 14 and I said that I don’t see him that way. And he told me he felt like our several year-long friendship had been a waste of his time. And that was pretty hurtful.

Everyone has a religion… some religions are spiritual and some are not. And if a person is unaware that they’re following a religion, they will unconsciously push it on others because they see it as an unquestioned good. They will assume that the ethics of their religion are simply the laws upon which reality is governed. And they will make no effort to reach out and prostelatize… only to judge. For example, if a person’s religion is that productivity is an unquestioned good… they will judge anyone who is unproductive who doesn’t match up to the tenets of that religion. They don’t even know they are following a religion, and so they simply judge others for not following the rules that they’ve projected onto reality. Leftists tend to follow the religion of justice and fairness. They see justice and fairness as an unquestioned good. And they judge anyone who doesn’t match up to the tenets of the religion of justice and fairness. They think anyone who’s being unfair/unjust is going against some existential rule of reality. And because they see justice and fairness as an unquestioned good, they feel incredulous at the idea that they’d have to market that idea to others. They assume, “people SHOULD already know better.” And they forget that standing on a soap box is not an effective tool for marketing and converting others to their religion. And they become as ineffective as the person waving the Bible on the side of the road and shaming all the passers-by as dirty Godless sinners. The person who sees their “religion” as an unquestioned good will be terrible at converting others to that religion… and will actually turn people off from it. This is a reality that Leftists need to swallow if they want to galvanize a movement towards fairness and justice. The FAR Right (meaning self-proclaimed Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists) are a lot more aware that their views are not an unquestioned good. So, they tend to do MUCH better marketing for their religion. They know that the religion of hatred is a hard sell… so they package their messaging in ways that the average person won’t spot the pill inside the peanut butter.