Emerald

You'll catch more bees with honey rather than vinegar. I'm bending my rule a little bit right now in responding to you. But I just don't read or engage with perspectives that are overtly disrespectful or peppered with ad hominem attacks. If you want me to engage you in discussion on the merits of your arguments, you're going to need to speak to me with maturity and respect... and like both you and I are adults.

Thank you

I've lived in Florida my whole life. And there are hurricanes hitting the state once or twice per year during hurricane season. But we just get used to them for the most part. The worst I've ever experienced is having my power out for several days. And that was only once out of the 20ish hurricanes I've experienced. It would be quite rare to experience really negative circumstances, unless you live right on the beach.

That's nice of you to check in. My family and I evacuated to South Carolina. We're back now. And the house is still here. So, that's always good.

What is it about me tending to be attracted to more average looking guys over very attractive guys that's disappointing to you? I'm not quite understanding why that would be a problem from your perspective.

I don't find that it devalues them. There are many attractive men that I value as people. I just tend to have platonic feelings for them.

I don't understand why you're trying to shoot arrows at me all the time and attack me personally. What did I do to you to deserve this unkindness?

Can you clarify what you mean? It doesn't seem to fit with what I was talking about. I was talking about feeling most secure, desired, and loved when a guy sees me as valuable and beautiful. And if a guy is very physically attractive, it brings up doubts that he will value me that way. And so, it makes me associate the idea of being with a male model-looking guy with feelings of awkwardness. Are you disappointed that I'm not attracted to guys that look like super models? Or are you interpreting that I don't let myself admire men in general? If so, this isn't true. I'm very attracted to the men that I get attracted to. It isn't like "Yay! He's a desperate pathetic fool. He'll like me. And I hate myself, so I have to pick from the bottom of the barrell." It's more like, "I really like a lot of things about him, and I find him physically attractive. But I recognize that he's a bit older than me or a little less conventionally attractive than me. So, he's going to be excited that I'm attracted to him." And being on the receiving end of that excitement is exciting to me.

I mean more attractive in a physical way specifically. And I mean from my perspective. And yes, they must have other attractive features, and they must be proximal to my level of physical attractiveness (the same or slightly less).

If I felt he was equally attractive as a woman compared to him as a man, it wouldn't bother me. I tend to see women as more physically attractive than men. My perception is that women are the peacocks of the species, and men are the peahens. This of course, is a social value. In Ancient Greece, they believed the opposite. So in my eyes, the most attractive woman is more attractive than the most attractive man. So if he and I were hypothetically equally attractive for our specific genders, I'd still see myself as more attractive because I am female and he is male. And it wouldn't create the awkward feeling.

I think a lot of people end up doing some version of this social strategy. It think it's a tendency that a lot of people with avoidant attachment have. The opposite social strategy is common as well but leans more towards anxious attachment. This is where people seek more attractive and higher status people to fit in with and be desired by to bolster their feelings of worthiness. And I have a friend who goes for guys who he perceives as more attractive than him. And it puts him more in an anxiously attached mode with these men as it makes him feel like he's on the back foot. But for me, I don't really value it when someone is more attractive than me. And I tend to find ways to be the peacock as that feels more secure to me, and I can relax and open up and be myself more.

It's not about the man being desperate. And I don't see myself as shit, though I have had issues with shame and belonging that probably play into this preference quite a bit. It's really about the man recognizing my value. I feel the most loved when I am valued and seen as beautiful in the eyes of another. There's this nice pleasant heart-opening feeling when I feel like the beloved of the relationship. And that feeling is what compels me the most towards romantic connection. And if I feel like he's more attractive than me, it will be difficult for me to feel like the beloved. And I won't be able to feel that heart opening and connecting will feel awkward.

Yes, that's the dynamic that feels secure and exciting to me in romantic contexts. I feel very loved and desired that way. I tend to do a version of this with friendships too. The people that I feel the most comfortable connecting with and gel the most with are the people who are on the same wavelength and who have a natural appreciation for my values and qualities on their own... prior to knowing that I exist. Because of my early social experiences of feeling misunderstood, alien, and devalued, I have a spidey-sense about who is going to value my qualities or devalue my qualities. And as much as I can, I avoid social contexts (platonic or romantic) that won't understand or recognize my value. This includes avoiding relationships with men that I feel are unlikely to perceive me as beautiful. And even back when I was in high school, I dressed in a way that would filter out the wrong ones for me and attract in the right ones for me. I used to dress in a relatively heavy goth style that I'd cobble together from thrift store finds. And it would repel a lot of people who thought I was weird, or a satanist, or a witch, etc.. But it would attract to me people who were more open minded and enjoyed my MO. So, because I was always feeling a bit like a fish out of water, there was this natural marketing knowledge that arose and a tendency to put myself out there as a beacon to draw in others who are on the same wavelength. And since high school, there is this niche marketing myself to a target audience that will appreciate me and repelling the wrong ones. And if a potential friend or lover doesn't feel like they're part of my "target audience" that will appreciate me, I will not feel very secure or excited connecting with them. And this strategy has worked pretty well for me romantically and platonically. The issue is that it can be a bit self-objectifying. But I know that this type of pattern also has come up for lots of my clients who have dealt with dynamics around shame, disconnection, abandonment, alienation, ostracisms, etc. People who generally have these needs met by family and friends, tend to feel less of a need to niche market themselves to a target audience as they already have a social fabric to connect in to. For those who have deficits in these areas, we have to do the leg work to find the ones that are cut from the same cloth.

I don't think I'm ugly. But I value feeling beautiful, especially in romantic contexts. And I would not feel beautiful with a guy who's prettier than me. Like I mentioned before, it would feel like the Feminine version of emasculation. My husband (who I have children with) is an attractive guy and was very classically handsome when we met 14 years ago. And our kids are a couple of cutie pies. But he's also about a decade older than me. So, I could still access the feeling of being desired as youth is widely considered more attractive than age. So, it still set up that dynamic of me as the more attractive person in the relationship despite being with an attractive guy.

That's difficult to choose for me. I'm really not attracted to Luis Guzman, though I can recognize how some women would be. But I would feel uncomfortable and ugly engaging romantically with Chico. And I would feel really gross. So, honestly neither as both would feel very uncomfortable to engage physically with for different reasons. If I had to choose I'd probably end up picking Luis Guzman because I think I'd be able to feel less self-conscious in that situation. But it still wouldn't be pleasant because I'm not attracted to him.

I suspect that this is common for many women. I know there are also many women who feel more attractive by finding a very attractive partner. But that would just make me feel weird. I much prefer a Fred and Wilma Flintstone kind of dynamic.

It's not about the guy's age. I'm only two years older than him. And I've been attracted to men who are slightly younger than me before. But I'm very unlikely to develop an attraction towards him because he's more attractive than me. And being physically involved with him would make me feel unattractive, which is a turn off. I have the same thing with average looking guys who brag about only being attracted to the hottest women. It just signals to me that my beauty won't be recognized or appreciated. So, there's like this automatic platonic feeling that arises in me that solidifies neutral feelings towards the man in question. I really need to feel like the pretty one in the relationship in order to feel desired and therefore open to connecting in that way. To me, one of the most exciting parts of connecting with a guy is the feeling of being desired and to have a sense that the guy feels like he's punching above his weight by winning my affections. So, I tend to go for men who are a little less physically attractive than I am OR who are the same level of attractiveness to me but 5-10 years older. With a really attractive guy like that, I don't get the sense that my beauty would be recognized and that I will be valued or cherished. And so, the thought of being physical with a really attractive guy feels unappealing to me despite the fact that I can recognize that he's classically handsome. It would just give me an icky feeling.

I already told you that I'd choose neither option. I'm not attracted to Luis, so that's a turn off for me. And Chico wouldn't be attracted to me, and that's a turn off for me. I'd feel ugly with him. I tend to go for guys who aren't as pretty as me, but who are also pretty enough for me. So, I'm the most attracted to average looking guys.

I do think the Chico guy is more attractive. But at the same time, I don't find either of those men particularly intriguing in that way... as I feel too attractive for one but not attractive enough for the other. Give me a guy who's more attractive than Luis and less attractive than Chico and you'd be striking my goldilocks zone for looks. Maybe the women are choosing Luis Guzman because they can imagine being desired and lusted after by him, and they view themselves as more proximal in attractiveness compared to him. It's hard for an average woman to imagine being desired by a male model-looking guy. And these types of guys end up in a similar category to gay men in the eyes of the average woman. They may be very attractive, but they're definitionally not interested in the average woman. And that's a turn off for the average woman. I would turn myself off if I was with a guy who I felt was significantly more attractive than me. It's not fun to feel like a toad next to a swan. It's somewhat like the Feminine version of emasculation. So, I could see lots of women going for the less attractive guy for that reason as women tend to be hypogamous with looks.

Thank you. And you're welcome.

The way I tend to express this insight is more like "Everyone has positive intentions towards what they consider as part of themselves." So, if a person has a very contracted sense of self where they see themselves as different from others, they can do all sorts of negative things to the "other" out of a positive intention to serve themselves, their loved ones, the "good" people, or whatever group they identify with. But upon the awakening to the senes of oneness that undergirds all things, there is a genuine good will towards all because there is no longer an illusion of the other. There is just a recognition of a singularity that has pure positive intention and unconditional love for itself. And it is this same unitive unconditional love that is at play underneath every vile act that's done to serve self by sacrificing the other. It is only when we're caught in the illusion that there is anything other than self, that we can cause this kind of harm. So, we could say that a serial killer has positive intentions because it makes them temporarily feel good/better when they kill and murder the "other". But it is only with the illusion of fragmentation of self and other that someone can feel better by harming the other. And if there was a greater awareness of that sense of oneness, no one could harm another without the sense of harming self. The same thing holds true for when we repress away parts of ourselves. We resist and fragment off parts of ourselves that we can't accept, and even these parts of ourselves become the "other" despite being internal to our mind-body complex. And in similar ways, both the conscious personality can do harmful things to this repressed part to serve itself AND the repressed part can do harmful things to the conscious personality to serve itself. And similarly to how it is in external situations, it is only in the illusion of separation and "otherness" that we can cause harm to ourselves.

That's a very interesting thing to explore regarding environment and intimacy. One thing I noticed about myself is that, when I'm in certain environments, I'm able to access more compassion for others compared to when I'm in other environments. Like when I've attended Ayahuasca ceremonies, it becomes really clear that people's neuroses are coming from deeper vulnerabilities and wounds. But in other contexts, this isn't as immediately obvious to me and judgments can arise more easily. And in hostile argumentative online spaces, it's like I can get into a mode where I go semi-unconscious to people's humanity and I start viewing people in a flatter way. So, it sparks an interest in social engineering and creating spaces for more harmony and connection. And it makes me wonder what the ripple effect of existing in such spaces would be if that became the vibe and the culture of all/most human environments.

Sure, you can email me. My email is thediamondnetchannel@gmail.com I'll get back to you sometime in the coming days.

No worries. That's been a long time ago that this kind of treatment was normalized. Right now, if someone tried any of the inappropriate stuff that used to be normalized, I'd be aware that there was a problem. And people have gotten more conscious over the past 15 years. So, other people would probably be more primed to call out the inappropriate behavior as opposed to going into slut shaming mode where the onus of responsibility is put on the recipient of the behavior.

I used to have a really strong reaction when I'd think about rape. And the big thing that struck me is the disregard of the person's humanity, and just using them like an empty vessel for pleasure. And the pleasure for the rapist is momentary, while it sticks with the victim for their whole life. It just struck me as the biggest disregard for human life. It still does now, but I don't have as strong of a reaction or get intrusive thoughts about it. Looking back, I realize the strong reaction I had was because my sexual boundaries were constantly being breeched in other more subtle ways that didn't seem serious to me at the time because it was totally normalized behavior that was happening to almost every girl I knew. So, I wonder if some version of that is happening to you... even if it isn't sexual boundaries that are being breeched. When I was a teenager and in my early 20s, it was very common that I was treated in objectifying ways with lots of inappropriate and unwanted touching and language directed towards me. And there was just lots of slut shaming combined with being pressured by male peers and older adults to engage with them sexually. It was a very confusing time with many mixed messages because there was peer pressure to be sexual but then social punishment for being sexual at the same time. And I didn't see any of it as particularly traumatic because it was just "normal". And I didn't really think it was impacting me because that was just the way things were. But I used to smoke weed, and this impacted my ability to swallow all of this down. And often when I would smoke, I'd experience triggers and get all this really strong anger and disturbed panicky feelings coming up. And I would often get paranoid. Like once I was at a party in college when I was 19, and I was smoking weed. And one of the guys who lived at the house was a hyper-conservative type of guy. And he was already coming across in a way that I found abrasive because he was pretty overtly racist and sexist. Then when I was high, he made a joke with his roommate (who I did know) that he got in trouble for sodomy. And this created this huge trigger for me as I couldn't tell he was joking because of the weed. And I already didn't trust the guy. And I locked myself in the bathroom to hide myself away from everyone at the party, and I had a mini panic attack because I was having all these intrusive thoughts about the guy forcing himself on someone and starting to see him as a soul less vampire of the person. There was also a situation when I was 17 when I was high. And I had gone to a 3 day, 2 night rock festival. And there was a lot of open sexual expression there. And I consciously had no issue with it. Then, there was this woman (who was probably in her mid-20s) who had a bullhorn. And as women would walk by, she'd shout at them and try to get them to flash. And I was at the concert with my boyfriend and two of my guy friends. And we walked past this woman, and she starts shouting at me through the bullhorn to try to convince me to flash my breasts. And I got so upset and all these thoughts started racing. And I can't remember if I spoke this stream of consciousness out loud or if it was just in my mind. But this trigger hit me because I had just smoked some weed, and I went into this panic and anger mode. And even though I was against Feminism at the time because I thought it was out-dated and it was uncool to be a Feminist, I'd go into this really intensely angry Feminist-ish screed speaking in very academic terms about how fucked up what she's doing is. But I don't remember if that was in my head or if I actually started blessing her out. But in retrospect, I think in these moments, it was a part of me that already felt unsafe, objectified, and used in subtler way on a consistent base to where it was like a death of 1000 paper cuts. So, it lead me to wonder if your strong feelings that come up have to do with some sense of being used or objectified and having your boundaries breeched... either sexually or non-sexually.