Emerald

@AION Certainly, my take is a "girly" take... as I'm specifically communicating about how women tend to select for partners in the current era where (because of social media) misogyny and anti-social tendencies in men are much more well-known for women as a collective group. And there are common perspectives and buzzwords that the men who think this way will say that most young women will immediately be able to clock such a guy. Women don't want to be with anti-social mean-spirited guys who lack emotional intelligence and who hate/resent women. That's why these guys are complaining of loneliness... because women (as a collective) have become conscious to the point that they are sorting these guys out. And all of the misogynistic propaganda just exacerbates that issue by selling men a version of Masculinity that most women find repellant and will guarantee that most women will sort them from consideration. Think about how birds mate. The male bird does his dance... and the female says "yes" or "no". And because of the internet propaganda, huge swaths of the male population are being taught unappealing "dances" by men who claim to be experts... and who also convince their marks to never listen to women about what they want. So, it keeps these men doubling down on mating strategies that make them less and less and less appealing to women. Add to that, the fact that people are socializing less... and you have a situation where lots of men simply won't partner up and won't have children. That's what The Amazing Atheist was talking about in his video.

I'm not too familiar with Rick Ross. I can say that I don't personally find him aesthetically appealing but that some women might. But most men who aren't integrated with the Feminine side are pretty nerdy and socially inept... like Incels. The lack of integration of the Feminine is socially crippling... and prevents deeper connection on a human level. So, I don't think that a famous musician falls into that category. He's got to have some degree of Feminine integration to have the social skills and creative skills to do what he does. But ultimately, how you define "success" matters. And when I speak of success (relative to this video by the Amazing Atheist), I mean men who will be good husbands and fathers (if they so wish) and who are an asset to their community. And you can't do that without Feminine integration... especially not in this current era. And it seems to me that the men complaining of the "male loneliness epidemic" are men who have the behavior of trying to maximize their Masculinity and repress all signs of Femininity. And with social media, many women's collective awareness has expanded in the past 10 years, such that they are more aware of signs of anti-Feminine behaviors and ideologies... and select partners based off of that information for both safety and attraction purposes. Men who repress their Feminine side will treat women the same way they treat their own Feminine side. So, a men who tries to eradicate the Feminine from himself cannot be a good partner to a woman. And the current state of things, makes it quite evident who's who in terms of men who are safe and men who are unsafe. And women (as a group) will tend to select for safer male partners over ones who come off as creepy or dangerous.

The OP is very young... born in 2006. So, she's only 19 years old. (I just looked on her profile) I just interpreted her words as meaning that she still hasn't grieved the end of a previous partnership... which can make it difficult to open up to a new relationship.

From what you'd mentioned, it seems that you have been in love in the past. And now, you're having a hard time opening up to a new relationship. If I'm reading your situation correctly from the word "again", how long ago did you get out of the relationship with the person you loved? If it's quite recently, you'll likely need to go through some more grieving to fully let them go. But if it's been quite a while and it's hard to let go and open up to someone new, you'll want to explore the deeper reasons why you're still holding onto the past relationship... including attachment to the idea of the future which never came to pass. There could also be an element of limiting beliefs, where you conceptualize of yourself as very different from others. And this could impede the ability to open up.

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I haven't read that one.

Also, a bit of historical context that might be helpful for understanding the ire... and the perception of the powerful "other". During the medieval times, it was seen as un-Christian to be involved in financial matters. And that's because there's a lot of notions like "blessed are the poor or spirit". And it was seen to be of lower morals to be in the merchant class because of its proximity to money. They royals and nobility didn't want to "lower" themselves. And Kings and Queens would enlist the help of a "Court Jew" to help with the matters of banking and finances, so that they could outsource those tasks they saw as un-Christian. So, because of the way that money was viewed in Christendom as non-Christian, there has been an association of Jewish people with money. And the pattern of Jewish people being associated with money and riches gets started. Then, as we've moved out of feudalist fiefdoms and towards a more consumer Capitalist society, the most powerful people ceased to be the royals and nobility... and instead became the merchant class and the bankers. So, because there had been a patterns within the mainstream Christian society of it being anti-christian to handle money... this set up a pattern that later gave Jewish people more power because of their association with banking and money as things shifted away from Feudalism and towards Capitalism. This further solidifies the stereotypes associated with the "powerful other" who is plotting to take over like I mentioned in the previous post.

Consider that most of our default perspectives are coming from European Christian perspective because that is the perspective of the most dominant cultures who have the most imperial power. These are the same cultures that have the most impact on popular culture and what's coming up in the collective Zetigeist of the now international human species. So, anything that is considered "other" than white Christianity will be hated and marginalized in the collective Zeitgeist. And there certainly is a lot of Islamophobia as well as antisemitism because those are competitor religions to the dominant Christian perspective. So, they're going to be treated with a special amount of ire... moreso than smaller religions that aren't seen as real competitors to Christianity. But Islam is seen as more distant... and as something that's a fixture of the Middle East. So, Islamophobia is a more distant hatred of the distant other from the white Christian perspective. But there is a strong association between the Jewish identity and white European culture. And when most people think of Jewish people, they think of white people. So, Jewish people are perceived as a closer competitor to the default perspective... like a closer rival. That's why a lot of the antisemitic rhetoric is one that's more in the framing of "look at these powerful people that are plotting to take over" rather than the inferiorizing rhetoric of more distant others. Basically, the white Christian default sees them as closer rivals to the dominant perspective. But really any "other" will be hated and marginalized. That is the way that people with strong collective identities operate, as a strong tribal/national/ethnic/racial identity requires a contrasting other to give definition to the collective identity. Anytime you're saying, "I am this", there is an implied "I am not that." And the stronger identification we have with "this", the stronger resistance we will have of "that".

As a woman who doesn't respond to pick-up at all, I can tell you that guys who are into pick-up lose attractiveness. They come across like a salesman trying to hit quota, rather than like a regular human being. What I notice about guys who get into pick-up is that they lose the ability to simply interact with a woman without going into "agenda-mentality" and can't just let the connection form organically. They get too clouded by their knowings and agendas to truly be open. It's like, they have to do the legwork and escalate... and be the driver of the connection. And it becomes this really linear goal-oriented thing. And most women aren't into that kind of linear progression. But it will work on a sizable minority of women (maybe 20%-30%). So, men will get success with that sizable minority of women while functioning in that very mechanistic, utilitarian, goal-oriented way of operating relative to human connection. And they will come to the conclusion that this way of operating works on all or most women, when it doesn't. And it will repel women who are more open to organic connection and who only respond to the longer-winded and non-linear "fermentation process" of developing mutual feelings. And the men will believe "Focusing on organic connection doesn't work as effectively" because it gets them fewer numbers. So, a whole mode of connecting and operating gets cut off because the "pick-up" mode is more effective for the numbers game. And the women who are susceptible to the numbers game have an MO that's less prone to the natural slow-burn or intimate connection. So, it becomes like a fast-food version of human connection, which is far more transactional and unsatisfying. But it seems difficult for the guys who are into pick-up to notice what's lost because they're more likely to win the numbers game.

Yes, that's essentially true that pick-up is about gender performance... as are all actions taken to affirm one's own gender identity. So, a man learning pick-up or "how to be Masculine" is about performing the male gender to feel more embodied in the identity of maleness. So, I can see connections between the notion of gender performance related to trans identities and the gender performances that straight/cis people do to affirm their own gender. It comes from the same motivation.

I actually just wrote a script on the Puer Aeternus for my channel. I'll be releasing it next week. I figured that, since Dr. K is talking about it, that it might be a good archetype to cover. I see it as really topical. But I don't see pick-up as being linked to homosexuality. It's really evident to me that homosexuality is more physiological than it is purely a psychological phenomenon. I see the universality of gay voice across all cultures is evidence to that fact. Keep in mind that Marie-Louise Von Franz was writing in a time where homosexuality was still thought to be a psychiatric condition. So, that's going to cause her to look at homosexuality through the lens of pathology instead of simply as a sexual orientation that's a reflection of normal human diversity. But I do think what Joshe said about pick-up being Feminine is certainly true... as it is typically about emotional things like validation/proof of lovability/desirability, social status among inter-male peer groups, and a salve for loneliness, as opposed to purely meeting physical sexual needs.

I was having a conversation earlier this week with someone about how the types of men that straight men believe are attractive differ from the types of men that women find attractive. Healthy Gamer just made a video about it...

I suspect that that's most women who fall outside of this category, as anger issues show a lack of emotional maturity and that the man is controlled by his emotions. It's really only the case for those who already have the familial patterns to pre-dispose them to that attraction, like myself. And it tends to be that chronically angry people are that way because they feel chronically powerless. So, it's like this sense of trying to control but not being able to and ramping up the anger into tantrum because they feel so out of control. And part of the unconscious boons that I got from being with an angry person in the past is that I got to feel like the stoic rock that was more in control... while my partner was always falling apart. And I could help glue them back together because I was stoic and emotionally flat enough to do so. Like, my first relationship as a teenager, the whole dynamic was that he'd have a total tantrum meltdown... and I'd be the glue that put him back together with my unconditional presence and ability to absorb his tantrums. It was kind of like being a mother to a very fussy baby. So, there was a power and dominance that I felt in the dynamic by being the emotionally stable one.

Lots of women have familial patterns that set them up for these kinds of dynamics. So, while most women won't be vulnerable to this kind of thing... the women who have patterns in childhood that make them susceptible to trickery like this can end up in these unfortunate circumstances. Of course, I have my own familial patterns. I tend to be attracted to men who are either angry all the time or struggle with expressing anger. And that's reflective of my mom and my dad respectively... where I polarized in the same direction as my dad, with difficulty expressing anger. So, I have been susceptible to that pattern... and find men with anger issues (in either direction) attractive. But I'm not very susceptible to this type of objectification and duping pattern. I've never had an issue finding a partner who's really serious about me and loves me. I can sense immediately the type of guy who would do that kind of manipulation, usery, objectification, and duping, and I'm not attracted to that vibe. And that's how women without trauma around those patterns will relate to such a guy. It will automatically give off an icky sleazy vibe. But icky sleazy vibe will be attractive to a woman whose parent(s) had the icky sleazy vibe who objectified her and devalued her. And that guy will be a projection screen that she can use to repeat the patterns from childhood. The same thing is true for men as well, of course. All human beings develop attractions based on familial/familiar patterns.

100%

That's what people tend to do... they automatically eliminate people who are a standard deviation (or more) less attractive than they are. They, they'll go for whoever they're attracted to and have chemistry with. And of course, good looks draw people in. But a healthy mentality about it is to find someone that you find attractive who "hits the bar" and then see if there's deeper connection to be had. The beauty glutton is one who simply tries to maximize the attractiveness of his sexual partners in a conquesting kind of way. And he won't feel content with a woman of his level of attractiveness, even if he theoretically could find her attractive if he wasn't so fixated on aiming for perfection. Often times, this kind of guy is just seeing very beautiful women as the judges for his own worthiness as a human. And he can't project that kind of authority to judge his worthiness onto ordinary-looking women. So, he isn't interested in them (even if those women are more attractive than him) because he doesn't feel like they have the power to validate his existence as worthy. But of course, that guy isn't ready to be in a relationship because he wouldn't be able to relate to the woman he's with as a person.

Yes... many types of gluttony. Thank you!

First off, a person who is attractive and just wants an attractive partner could also be a beauty glutton. I worked with a perfect 10 of a guy who's wealthy and attractive... but he was still a beauty glutton as he couldn't appreciate in a woman that which wasn't ideal beauty-wise and otherwise. To clarify what I mean, there was always this sense that the grass is greener elsewhere. But it's really a guy with a conquest mindset about women and beauty, where he's always trying to get the most beautiful woman he can get... and often focuses towards expanding towards an abundance of ideal-looking women. Contrast this with a guy who meets a woman he happens to find attractive and then sparks up a genuine human-to-human connection with that woman. It's essentially the maximizers versus the satisficers... where beauty gluttons are maximizers that are always trying to expand and expand towards more and more ideal options. And he thinks about women only in relation to physical beauty and neglects the emotional connection element. And he will not want to contract his options. He will want to continue conquesting and expanding his beauty options. For him, the way he thinks about dating is "I'm going to go try to attract a 10"... as opposed to "I'm going to meet a woman that I find attractive and see if there's chemistry and connection." And this kind of man is on a mission towards maximization of perfection and idealism in his life because he can only recognize beauty in the perfect and ideal... which creates a beauty starvation in him, since he can only see beauty in its most obvious forms. So, he is not one that's able to recognize the beauty of that which is imperfect. So, he chases ideals non-stop because of his starvation for beauty, as he needs to seek relationship with beautiful women to even sense beauty at all. He is one that is not able to sacrifice his image of the ideal woman for relationship with a real woman. And all women are imperfect and have the disgust factor associated with being a human being with a human body.

That's precisely why I recommend to women to sort beauty gluttons from consideration. They're not longterm husband material. Men who are overly focused on a woman's physical attractiveness won't be able to find beauty in her as she ages. And one woman will never be enough for him, because he is a devourer of beauty. He will not see her as his beautiful wife that he loves and adores. He will only see her as a crusty old grandma that he tolerates for company while pining for 25-year old women at the age of 70. And life for the woman will be fighting against the inevitability of time removing her lovability in the eyes of the beauty glutton old man... and knowing she's only loved and adored for an archetype that she only inhabits for 10-20 years of her life. And she will get no romantic or sexual satisfaction from a man who can only appreciate the springtime of a woman on the most beautiful days... but cannot find beauty in the winter. It's like being a fine wine that cannot be appreciated by those who only have the palate to appreciate grape juice. The fact of the matter is that beauty gluttons cannot appreciate the beauty of the maiden, mother, and crone. So, he is an unwise partner to procreate with as he cannot appreciate the beauty of a woman (as the woman is always maiden, mother, and crown all at once)... as a woman is only a maiden for a short time. If you reject the crone, you reject the maiden... and the maiden will reject you.

Honestly, it's pretty easy to sort out beauty gluttons as there are many tells that come through in their vibe and the way they carry themselves... as well as the way they relate to your physical appearance as a woman. You can immediately tell when a guy is really into you or just scrounging around for a beauty conquest. It's not something that most women have to over-focus on to sort out. It's just a discordant vibe that doesn't feel very good. Most women are unattracted to this vibe. But for women who are used to being objectified and mistreated, they can develop some blindspots to this type of guy. And the familiarity of it can attract them.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Beautiful people are rare, and it is totally fine to appreciate the beauty of beautiful people. In fact, it's the most common thing in the world to appreciate the beauty of beautiful people. Every man, woman, and child naturally does appreciate the appearances of beautiful people. And it isn't about virtue at all. I'm not making a moral argument. It's about what it truly means to be an appreciator of beauty in the sublime sense. And it's not necessarily less virtuous to fail to appreciate beauty in the sublime sense. But to frame appreciating the looks of beautiful women as somehow about having a sophisticated or refined taste and as "being an appreciator of beauty" is just silly, as it pretends towards having a connoisseur's palate and to pass one's self off as having refined and uncommon taste... when finding attractive women attractive is the most common taste in the world. The appearance of a beautiful woman is literally the most popular flavor of appearance in the entire human species. And true refinement of taste and appreciation of beauty requires one to acquire tastes for more challenging flavors of experience (beyond human iterations of beauty). And enjoying the looks of beautiful women is as easy as enjoying a delicious crowd-pleasing dessert. But if a man has no appreciation for beauty outside of the most attractive women, it's a sign that he has a dulled palate for beauty and won't be able to find beauty in any other place but a beautiful woman. (To be clear, it's not that people with refined palates for beauty don't find beautiful people beautiful. But they can find sources of beauty everywhere.) And if a man who only appreciates the beauty of the most beautiful women, he probably won't be a good longterm partner. And that's because, even the most beautiful women all eventually look like little old ladies. So, it's important to find a man who can recognize beauty beyond its most obvious forms, and to sort beauty gluttons from consideration. That's especially true for very beautiful women.

@Joshe Regarding what you mentioned above about positioning 'only being attracted to 9s and 10s' as "appreciating beauty" as though it's a sophisticated thing that signals some kind of exceptionality of the guy claiming that... First off, you're 100% correct. That's exactly what gets communicated. But this notion that the other poster said about "appreciating beauty", is actually the opposite of what sophistication is... and the opposite of being an appreciator of beauty. Sophistication means developing a rarer ability for appreciating beauty and enjoyment in contexts that less mature palates can't detect. So sophistication of taste requires acquiring a taste for disgust... and requires a challenge to find a deeper expression of beauty within that disgust. And the way that the Yin and Yang of things works is that the most beautiful of all things can only be found in disgust as "the diamond in the rough." Consider how, when we're babies, we only have a natural taste for sweet flavors. In fact, breast milk tastes almost exactly like the milk that's left over after you eat Fruit Loops... uncannily so. And all else that isn't sweet tastes like poison to babies and small children... and brings up disgust. So, the child's palate must be trained to mature to appreciate more "disgusting" tastes like bitter, sour, savory, salty, spicy, etc. And most of us eventually acquire these tastes, and we find the deliciousness in what we once were disgusted by... not even recognizing that it's the disgustingness of these flavors that make foods delicious. Then, an even more refined adult who has trained their palate to appreciate even more disgust can appreciate great wine and pick up on all the subtle notes. So, the more disgust a person can appreciate and find beauty and deliciousness in, the more refined their tastes are. And they are able to appreciate beauty and deliciousness on a more sublime level, beyond those who can only appreciate pure sweetness. And if we bring this into the topic of physical beauty. Let's say that the most beautiful woman in the world is like near-perfect sweetness. A beautiful woman's appearance is easy to appreciate for men, women, and children alike. But this enjoyment of beauty on this most obvious level is not challenging... and doesn't go very deep. One must refine their palate to appreciate the disgusting elements of the human body (and the world at large) to truly realize a deeper and more sublime realization of beauty. Think of it like an artist that finds beauty in painting a portrait of an old person with all sorts of interesting lines and wrinkles on their faces. Or a person who can visit a barren wasteland and find beauty. Or a musician that can find a greater realization of beauty in their music through incorporating some discordant notes into a song. That's the mark of a true sophisticate who really appreciates beauty. But finding a beautiful woman beautiful and saying "I'm only interested in 10s" and that they can't find beauty in an average woman is admitting that they haven't acquired enough of an appreciation for disgust to truly recognize and appreciate the beauty of a woman... or anything at all. And even the actual beauty of the 10 will go un-noticed. That's why I recommend for women to sort men from consideration who can't appreciate or understand beauty beyond its most obvious forms. What they believe is an appreciation for beauty... is actually indicative of a near-blindness to beauty.

Yeah, the mindset of guys who are very focused on searching out the most physically attractive woman, is not conducive to a feel good relationship for either partner. That's why I recommend watching out for tells that a guy is too focused on the physical element of attraction and to sort them from consideration. Men who are overly focused on looks are like devourers of beauty... and are not capable of actually appreciating beauty beyond the most obvious expressions of it. They really just see beauty as pure functional utility and nothing more than that, which prevents them from truly appreciating or understanding beauty. And it's genuinely dangerous for women of all levels of attractiveness to get into relationships with these guys. For a very attractive woman, these beauty gluttons won't really care about her and will just use her and eventually leave her for a younger hotter model. (And when you're attractive as a woman, you just get tons of spam attention from these kinds of guys. So, the more attractive a woman is, the more it behooves her to get really good at identifying and sorting these guys from consideration.) And for women who are average or unattractive, beauty gluttons won't value these women at all, as people. But they will settle for these women when the more attractive women reject them, and they're lonely. And these guys will resent the average women for not being up to their standards. Mind you, most beauty gluttons are not attractive or successful themselves. They're usually average or below-average looking guys with high looks standards for women. And many of them are just looking for a validation of their own worthiness via interpreting sexual validation from a woman as synonymous with their own worthiness as a human. So, the latter dynamic can happen between a woman who's a 6 and a beauty glutton who's a 4 will get into a relationship... and the 4 will resent the 6 for not being a 10. But even if this 4 were to get a 10, the 10 still wouldn't be enough... because it's about variety and conquest for more beauty consumption. And similar to how a man might open a bunch of tabs to flip between porn videos to maximize his pleasure through variety (which is fine)... a woman who ends up with a beauty glutton, will be faced with the impossible task of trying to be a variety of ideally attractive women to keep the beauty glutton interested. And she will fail to be every attractive women, and he will always be disappointed in her. Even a perfect 10 is not enough for a beauty glutton... as she can never be EVERY perfect 10 in the world. She can only be one perfect 10. Until he grows out of that phase, he will never be pleased with the woman he's with because there's always a more beautiful woman. And the woman will feel very unfulfilled sexually and emotionally in such a relationship dynamic because women need to feel like the man adores her to feel secure and to open up sexually.